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Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

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MikeDunlop

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

Initially I was going to use Z-12 for my Long-EZ system because it shows the LR-3 controller and I have the following:



B&c LR-3 alternator controller

B&C SD-8 and all the associated bits

I'm using two Bendix mags 

Most probable going to use an auto alternator with the LR-3 (undecided on make as yet)



then I was advised to use Z-13/8 (quite correctly) which shows the B&C SD-8 setup, so my question is would it be O.K. to use a mixture of both from Z-12 and Z-13/8.



It would be helpful to find out any pitfalls before starting this project.



Regards



Mike (U.K.)

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

At 12:41 PM 1/8/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Initially I was going to use Z-12 for my Long-EZ system because it 

shows the LR-3 controller and I have the following:


	


    The z-figures are intended to show ARCHITECTURE.

    Parts are exemplar but not unique to that architecture.



    Why Z-12?  The Z-13/8 was designed to max maximum

    use of the limited output of the SD-8 (no battery

    contactor).



 	  Quote: 	
		  B&c LR-3 alternator controller

B&C SD-8 and all the associated bits

I'm using two Bendix mags

Most probable going to use an auto alternator with the LR-3 

(undecided on make as yet)


	


    It needs to be an alternator compatible with external

    regulation.



 	  Quote: 	
		  then I was advised to use Z-13/8 (quite correctly) which shows the 

B&C SD-8 setup, so my question is would it be O.K. to use a mixture 

of both from Z-12 and Z-13/8.


	


    What features of 12 need to be incorporated into 13?

   The style of ignition systems is irrelevant to the

    discussion.



 	  Quote: 	
		  It would be helpful to find out any pitfalls before starting this project.


	


    I am certain that there have been dozens of 'variations

    on a theme' wherein items from various documents and

    architectures were cherry-picked and assembled into

    a new architecture. Most perform as advertised . . . assuming

    the 'chef' really understands the significance of the

    cherry-picking.



    Start with Z-13/8 and tell us what items depicted don't

    fit your planned suite of hardware.

   Bob . . .

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jimkinninger

Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Smith Valley, NV

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

I am interested in this discussion as I am just starting the Z-12 and a friend said he was doing the Z-13/8. I am using a mockup firewall and mounting all the components and drawing lines for wires and fuel lines. My fiend's Z-13/8 schematic shows where the firewall is placed and thus defines what goes on each side. This is not something that is not self evident and is not shown on the Z-12. Using his Z-13 diagram I have been able to sort most of it out. More next time.

Jim Kinninger

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_________________
Jim Kinninger
Smith Valley, NV

MikeDunlop

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

The basics are as follows:

I need to use the section of Z-12 that encompasses the Primary alternator section (Alternator and the B&C LR-3 controller), then use the section for Z-13/8 that encompasses the secondary alternator (B&C SD  and obviously the remainder of 13/8.

 

I have a single copper tube being used as an earth conduit, this tube has copper tabs wrapped around, clamped and soldered at each end ready for appropriate earth cabling.  Inside the copper tube I have a high quality welding cable (equivalent to AWN #2).

 

Further questions:



Can anyone see a downside of mixing the Z-12 and Z-13/8 like above.



What is the minimum size cable can I use from the front earth rail tab to the instrument earth bus (approx 18-20 inches in length)



MikeD (U.K.)

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

At 01:20 PM 1/23/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



The basics are as follows:

I need to use the section of Z-12 that encompasses the Primary 

alternator section (Alternator and the B&C LR-3 controller), then 

use the section for Z-13/8 that encompasses the secondary alternator 

(B&C SD-.


	


    These are ARCHITECTURE DRAWINGS not wiring diagrams for

    any particular airplane. You seem to want the features of

    Z-13/8 which can accept ANY main alternator/regulator combination

    of ANY pedigree.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I have a single copper tube being used as an earth conduit, this 

tube has copper tabs wrapped around, clamped and soldered at each 

end ready for appropriate earth cabling.  Inside the copper tube I 

have a high quality welding cable (equivalent to AWN #2).


	


    Do I presume that you're building a canard pusher?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Can anyone see a downside of mixing the Z-12 and Z-13/8 like above.


	


    No 'mixing' required. Your suite of preferred hardware is

    easily integrated into a Z-13/8 architecture.

 	  Quote: 	
		  What is the minimum size cable can I use from the front earth rail 

tab to the instrument earth bus (approx 18-20 inches in length)


	


    Where is the battery? Do cranking currents flow in the

    copper tube?

   Bob . . .

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MikeDunlop

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Z-12, Z-13/8 or a bit of both!

Bob,



Thanks for the reply.  



Now I understand, I will be using the Z-13/8 architecture.

Let me try and be more informative about how I envisage the earth conduit setup. 



I'm building a Long-EZ with a Odyssey PC925 battery in the nose section. 



The positive cables will run from the battery to the master switch in the nose section (6 to 7 inches), from the master switch through the earth conduit to the starter solenoid way back on the firewall (about 10 ft), then from solenoid to starter.



The earth cable will run from the battery to the copper tab on the front of the earth conduit, just behind the nose section (30 inches).  The earth is then picked up from the rear copper tab of the earth conduit, on the engine side of the firewall, by a copper braided strap between conduit and engine. So I presume (dangerous thing to do!) the cranking current runs through the copper conduit.



My question was: 

What is the minimum size cable can I use from the copper tab on the FRONT of the earth conduit tab (just behind the nose section) to the instrument earth bus (approx 18-20 inches in length)



MikeD (U.K.)

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