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bill mcclellan

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 43

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Bud or anyone,

This seems to be a very nice engine for the Europa, a Viking Honda aircraft engine.  The Viking shop in in Edgewater, FL.  Do you know anything about this engine?  It is the Honda 1500 cc, 117 hp, 6300 rpm max, 2.33/1 reduction drive, fuel injected, liquid cooled, 178 lb dry weight, fully developed package for aircraft use.  The package includes 40A Alternator, Dual Engine controllers,  Exhaust / Muffler, Air intake, K&N Filter, Starter, Radiator, Oil cooler, fuel pumps and Engine mounting for your airplane.   The engine is fully assembled.   $13,000   Looks like a very good alternative to the Rotax.  They haven't yet but likely to develop retro fitable turbo-charge down the road.

Thanks,

Bill McClellan

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Bill, It sounds like a great option, but if you talk to the various folk who 

have fitted anything other than a Rotax to a Europa, I guess you will be a 

bit wary about being the first one to try it! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ



--

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

This engine is being sold by Eggenfeller.........formerly selling the Subaru engine conversions.  Those Subaru engines turned out to be completely unreliable and downright dangerous.  I know nothing about his latest project, the Honda conversion, but based on his previous engines, I wouldn't trust him.  Google his name and you'll get a real education. 



Garry Stout

Sent from my iPad



On Jan 26, 2012, at 1:18 PM, William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bud or anyone,

 This seems to be a very nice engine for the Europa, a Viking Honda aircraft engine.  The Viking shop in in Edgewater, FL.  Do you know anything about this engine?  It is the Honda 1500 cc, 117 hp, 6300 rpm max, 2.33/1 reduction drive, fuel injected, liquid cooled, 178 lb dry weight, fully developed package for aircraft use.  The package includes 40A Alternator, Dual Engine controllers,  Exhaust / Muffler, Air intake, K&N Filter, Starter, Radiator, Oil cooler, fuel pumps and Engine mounting for your airplane.   The engine is fully assembled.   $13,000   Looks like a very good alternative to the Rotax.  They haven't yet but likely to develop retro fitable turbo-charge down the road.

 Thanks,

 Bill McClellan

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Yes I too looked at this option but as garry points out, and without knowing

Eggenfelner, I saw a lot of negative stuff on the web and also you see quite

a few of his engines for sale...being changed out for something else.  This

generates a significant degree of caution in me at least.  He might well

have got it right this time.



I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and the

volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing problems

that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am personally

am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.



There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/CAM100.



Will



--

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

fwiw, I've subscribed to his email group list and have been watching the banter with interest. I too have heard not-to-good things about the fellow. His on-line demeanor, and his answers to my in-person questions to him at Osh two years ago suggest arrogance.  

  

My issues with the design are 1- the prop turns the 'wrong' way. 2- he uses a rubber coupler in an attempt to deal with harmonic resonances, and from my EAA chapter colleagues experiences (with other redrives) and also my research on this topic, this damper will not be able to dissipate the power at the resonance peak (typically at lower rpms and power settings... just above idle) for any extended durations. When asked about this design he didn't really answer it other than stating that the built-in fan 'blades' in the starter ring gear were designed to cool it.

  

I think the Honda block has promise tho - it's the same engine that is raced in the amateur leagues, and also the same one they use in their outboard marine engines.



Time will tell I guess whether his installation is more sound than his previous efforts with the Subarus

  

Cheers,

Pete



On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)>

 

 Yes I too looked at this option but as garry points out, and without knowing

 Eggenfelner, I saw a lot of negative stuff on the web and also you see quite

 a few of his engines for sale...being changed out for something else.  This

 generates a significant degree of caution in me at least.  He might well

 have got it right this time.

 

 I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and the

 volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing problems

 that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am personally

 am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.

 

 There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/CAM100.

 

 Will

 

 --

Speedbird

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Folks,

I have been lurking on the forum now for awhile and would like to suggest to look at the UL-Power engine instead!

As far as I now there is one in UK I think nearing completion for the Europa and my personal choice as soon as I can order the kit...

I have no commercial interest in the company but to me that engine is probably the best engine right now.

Blue Skies & Tailwinds!

Ivan 



KajakCenter Halland

Org nr; 5805034625

P: +46 703 621310

P: +46 704 694444

M: midwing(at)telia.com (midwing(at)telia.com)

W: www.kajakcenter-halland.se





27 jan 2012 kl. 14:23 skrev Peter Zutrauen <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>:



[quote]fwiw, I've subscribed to his email group list and have been watching the banter with interest. I too have heard not-to-good things about the fellow. His on-line demeanor, and his answers to my in-person questions to him at Osh two years ago suggest arrogance.  

  

My issues with the design are 1- the prop turns the 'wrong' way. 2- he uses a rubber coupler in an attempt to deal with harmonic resonances, and from my EAA chapter colleagues experiences (with other redrives) and also my research on this topic, this damper will not be able to dissipate the power at the resonance peak (typically at lower rpms and power settings.... just above idle) for any extended durations. When asked about this design he didn't really answer it other than stating that the built-in fan 'blades' in the starter ring gear were designed to cool it.

  

I think the Honda block has promise tho - it's the same engine that is raced in the amateur leagues, and also the same one they use in their outboard marine engines.



Time will tell I guess whether his installation is more sound than his previous efforts with the Subarus

  

Cheers,

Pete



On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)>

 

 Yes I too looked at this option but as garry points out, and without knowing

 Eggenfelner, I saw a lot of negative stuff on the web and also you see quite

 a few of his engines for sale...being changed out for something else.  This

 generates a significant degree of caution in me at least.  He might well

 have got it right this time.

 

 I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and the

 volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing problems

 that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am personally

 am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.

 

 There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/CAM100.

 

 Will

 

 --

Gary.Leinberger(at)miller
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

I looked at using auto engines in my Europa - the applications (car versus airplane) are just so different.  While the base cost of these converted engines seems attractive, the problems soon run the cost (and the aggravation) far above the cost of a Rotax -  just started my 912S and am impressed with it. Like all German/Austria equipment, if maintained by the book, they seem to run forever. After nine years of building the last thing I want is to experiment with an engine generally backed by an undercapitalized entrepreneur.



If you are just starting your build, my advice is to wait to buy. One never knows how long it will take to build and any savings in buying the engine earlier (prices  do go up with inflation) are eaten up in maintenance on dried-out o-rings and required updates that are standard for new engines. I looked at the 912S when I started the build in 2003 and it was $15K or so list, and in 2010 bought my engine for $23K (with all the bits and shipping). This is about a 6% increase a year. But the engine is far superior to the 2003 engines (the U.S. Army required a bunch of very good changes) and Rotax improved the engine in other ways. Several other people that bought early (and cheaper) are paying more in the long run for an inferior early engine

europapa

Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 63

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

There are some alternatives to the Rotax like this German one:



http://www.silent-hektik.com/UL_M800a_1.htm



but I too would not dare to try it out.



Juergen

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Interesting site - they have a big bore kit for the 912 taking it to

110hp....add a turbo....130-140hp.....



--

max8992

Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Hi there all,

 

The club in which I was (and still am) flying owns an Ecoflyer 135CDI from Robin. The engine is the A Class Mercedes engine modified by  Thielert (now Centurion). Performances and easy to fly were there till we discovered the many troubles and lack of reliability attached to the transformation. Then the maintenance costs increased dramatically, and this was part of the failed over of Thielert.

Socata (previously a subsidiary of EADS and now part of Daher) built from scratch an engine 230HP turbo charged. Even if the staff in charge was previously the one which mad the Renault 10 cylinders

leader in Formula One , it took them 10 years to make it reliable, but still very expensive…

My conclusion is: an engine made for a car is not made to be installed in a plane!

 

Max  Cointe

F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560

912ULS Airmaster 400 hours



 

De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Gary Leinberger

Envoyé : vendredi 27 janvier 2012 15:58

À : 'europa-list(at)matronics.com'

Objet : RE: Viking Aircraft engine

 

I looked at using auto engines in my Europa – the applications (car versus airplane) are just so different.  While the base cost of these converted engines seems attractive, the problems soon run the cost (and the aggravation) far above the cost of a Rotax -  just started my 912S and am impressed with it. Like all German/Austria equipment, if maintained by the book, they seem to run forever. After nine years of building the last thing I want is to experiment with an engine generally backed by an undercapitalized entrepreneur. 

 

If you are just starting your build, my advice is to wait to buy. One never knows how long it will take to build and any savings in buying the engine earlier (prices  do go up with inflation) are eaten up in maintenance on dried-out o-rings and required updates that are standard for new engines. I looked at the 912S when I started the build in 2003 and it was $15K or so list, and in 2010 bought my engine for $23K (with all the bits and shipping). This is about a 6% increase a year. But the engine is far superior to the 2003 engines (the U.S. Army required a bunch of very good changes) and Rotax improved the engine in other ways. Several other people that bought early (and cheaper) are paying more in the long run for an inferior early engine. 

 

Gary Leinberger

A237

Hope to fly this spring. 

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Zutrauen

Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:24 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

 

fwiw, I've subscribed to his email group list and have been watching the banter with interest. I too have heard not-to-good things about the fellow. His on-line demeanor, and his answers to my in-person questions to him at Osh two years ago suggest arrogance.  



My issues with the design are 1- the prop turns the 'wrong' way. 2- he uses a rubber coupler in an attempt to deal with harmonic resonances, and from my EAA chapter colleagues experiences (with other redrives) and also my research on this topic, this damper will not be able to dissipate the power at the resonance peak (typically at lower rpms and power settings.... just above idle) for any extended durations. When asked about this design he didn't really answer it other than stating that the built-in fan 'blades' in the starter ring gear were designed to cool it.



I think the Honda block has promise tho - it's the same engine that is raced in the amateur leagues, and also the same one they use in their outboard marine engines.



Time will tell I guess whether his installation is more sound than his previous efforts with the Subarus



Cheers,

Pete

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)>



Yes I too looked at this option but as garry points out, and without knowing

Eggenfelner, I saw a lot of negative stuff on the web and also you see quite

a few of his engines for sale...being changed out for something else.  This

generates a significant degree of caution in me at least.  He might well

have got it right this time.



I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and the

volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing problems

that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am personally

am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.



There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/CAM100.



Will



--

_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Guys, 



I'll toss my 2 cents worth into the ring on alternative engines.  Fristly I would like to preface my comments with the statement that if we didn't try new things then we would be still flying with stuff powered from designs that trace there roots back 50 years.  Come to think of it, if we didn't try new stuff then we wouldn't be even flying Europa's.

 

Installing alternative power plants is not for the faint of heart, even proven designs. I recently completed some cooling modifications to my 914 and it was a lot of testing, work, re work and more testing.  My modifications are trivial compared to something like a Viking.  Even conventional conversions such as the Jabaru have taken a lot of collective effort to get them to the point of being a viable alternative.

 

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying alternatives, but please be aware that once you move away from  the original design that you moving down a path that will consume considerable resources.



Cheers,  Paul

  [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Hi Paul

I agree with everything you say, I would add that even now the Jab is still not a viable alternative (imho) I onlyknow of one successful Jab 6 owner and he isn't completely satisfied.

Graham

        From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012, 16:17

 Subject: Re:  Re: Viking Aircraft engine

Guys, 

I'll toss my 2 cents worth into the ring on alternative engines.  Fristly I would like to preface my comments with the statement that if we didn't try new things then we would be still flying with stuff powered from designs that trace there roots back 50 years.  Come to think of it, if we didn't try new stuff then we wouldn't be even flying Europa's.

Installing alternative power plants is not for the faint of heart, even proven designs. I recently completed some cooling modifications to my 914 and it was a lot of testing, work, re work and more testing.  My modifications are trivial compared to something like a Viking.  Even conventional conversions such as the Jabaru have taken a lot of collective effort to get them to the point of being a viable alternative.

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying alternatives, but please be aware that once you move away from  the original design that you moving down a path that will consume considerable resources.

Cheers,  Paul

  [quote]http://www.matro====================

[b]

europapa

Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 63

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

I have been interested in new aircraft engines for a long time and I have learned that there are more problems with the gearbox, the clutch  or both than with the engine itself.

ThatÂ´s why I wouldn't trust the the three cogs they call gearbox on the silent hektik engine.



http://www.silent-hektik.com/UL_M800a_1.htm

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Hi! Graham /all

Right on the money ! ...and I certainly know a good amount of the hassle associated with the subject!

Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON

Sent: 27 January 2012 16:44

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

 

Hi Paul



I agree with everything you say, I would add that even now the Jab is still not a viable alternative (imho) I onlyknow of one successful Jab 6 owner and he isn't completely satisfied.



Graham



 

From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012, 16:17

Subject: Re: Re: Viking Aircraft engine



 

Guys, 



I'll toss my 2 cents worth into the ring on alternative engines.  Fristly I would like to preface my comments with the statement that if we didn't try new things then we would be still flying with stuff powered from designs that trace there roots back 50 years.  Come to think of it, if we didn't try new stuff then we wouldn't be even flying Europa's.



Installing alternative power plants is not for the faint of heart, even proven designs. I recently completed some cooling modifications to my 914 and it was a lot of testing, work, re work and more testing.  My modifications are trivial compared to something like a Viking.  Even conventional conversions such as the Jabaru have taken a lot of collective effort to get them to the point of being a viable alternative.



I don't want to discourage anyone from trying alternatives, but please be aware that once you move away from  the original design that you moving down a path that will consume considerable resources.



Cheers,  Paul 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matro==================== 	




 

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mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

An aircraft engine is a "good engine" when he have made ten years  of flight life minimum! To resolve all problems.

  

 Michel AUVRAY

   [quote][b]

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

On Jan 27, 2012, at 4:27 AM, William Daniell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant  

 and the

 volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing  

 problems

 that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am  

 personally

 am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.



 There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/ 

 CAM100.


	


Will...that would be Alex Bowman who flies out of Nanaimo, BC...he has  

the CAM125 which is built around (I believe) a mid-80s Honda Civic  

engine...and he's been quite satisfied w/ performance, ops, and  

maintenance. He flew it to the EAA show at Arlington, WA back in 2004  

or 5, and I've seen it at a fly-in at Pemberton, BC alongside Peter  

Timm's Classic. Alex is now in his late 80s and has had some medical  

issues which, I believe, have been the sole reason for why he has not  

been burning holes in the sky w/ his Europa...it remains a low-time  

aircraft, but I much admire what he has achieved. Incidentally, he  

built his plane where he lives on a small island "off the grid", and  

true to form, the manufacturers of the CAM engines have evaporated.



Though the success rate for auto engine conversions for aircraft use  

may be low, Alex's CAM125 installation along w/ his Airmaster CS prop  

has been one of the success stories...of course, it would be more  

convincing to be able to point to say 10 Europas thus powered, each w/  

a thousand hours and still going strong. Some listers may recall that  

w/ the demise of the original Europa company, I attempted to assemble  

a group of FWF'less builders to utilize Alex's production cowl molds  

and experience w/ mating the CAM125 to the Europa, but alas, that  

never happened.



Of course, auto engine conversions are a subset of the question of  

whether or not one may choose to deviate from orthodoxy...anyone so  

interested can do some web searches and find any number of scholarly  

papers and descriptive narratives on the pros and cons of doing so.



For myself...as I continue my XS mono powered w/ a derivative of a  

Subaru (the RAM Performance 140 hp, MPEFIed engine w/ an Autoflight  

helical-geared PSRU)...I spent about 15 months molding the cowls,  

designing and fabricating the mounting frame, ditto for cooling and  

tuned exhaust systems, plus temp & pressure sensors...176# "wet" but  

excluding cooling & exhaust systems.



I find that a high tolerance for ambiguity has been essential...



I will post test/performance data when available.



I trust that there's a place in the Europa community for the  

occasional deviant,



Fred

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ivanshaw(at)btinternet.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Words of wisdom in deed

Ivan

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mau11

Sent: 27 January 2012 18:18

To: europa-list

Subject: Re: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

 

 



An aircraft engine is a "good engine" when he have made ten years of flight life minimum! To resolve all problems.



 



Michel AUVRAY

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Speedbird

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

The "other" Ivan agrees!

Cheers!

Ivan Midwing

Sweden



KajakCenter Halland

Org nr; 5805034625

P: +46 703 621310

P: +46 704 694444

M: midwing(at)telia.com (midwing(at)telia.com)

W: www.kajakcenter-halland.se





27 jan 2012 kl. 20:58 skrev "Ivan Shaw" <ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com (ivanshaw(at)btinternet.com)>:



[quote]p.MsoNormal 	{margin-left:7.5pt;}   <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Words of wisdom in deed

Ivan

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mau11

Sent: 27 January 2012 18:18

To: europa-list

Subject: Re: Re: Viking Aircraft engine

 

 



An aircraft engine is a "good engine" when he have made ten years of flight life minimum! To resolve all problems.



 



Michel AUVRAY

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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Bill,



Think about all that has to be developed to put in a non-standard engine.



1. New cowling - probably has to be made from scratch.  Have you ever made a female mold?

2. New baffling - probably will require multiple tries and much effort to get the cooling right.

3. New engine mount - you'll be lucky to get it right the first time.

4. New Plumbing - probably not too terrible once the above has been settled.

5. New Electrical - again, probably not too terrible once the above has been settled.  Depends a lot on the electrical requirements of the engine, F/I, ignition, etc.

6. New Physical connections - throttle, mixture, carb heat, etc.



The Europa was designed for and around the Rotax 9xx engine.  A complete FWF kit is available for purchase and it all works (at least it did on mine).

Electrical and plumbing are all worked out, just do it like the instructions say.  Physical connections are all worked out for you (no mixture or carb heat to fuss over).  They are light, powerful, economical and reliable (if you follow the instructions).  No they are not perfect but they are pretty darn good.



Anything else and you become the chief engineer and developer on a serious experimental project.



Ya pays your money and takes your chances.  (And do check into Mr. Eggenfeller)  Good luck which ever way you go.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Jan 26, 2012, at 12:18 PM, William McClellan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bud or anyone,

 This seems to be a very nice engine for the Europa, a Viking Honda aircraft engine.  The Viking shop in in Edgewater, FL.  Do you know anything about this engine?  It is the Honda 1500 cc, 117 hp, 6300 rpm max, 2.33/1 reduction drive, fuel injected, liquid cooled, 178 lb dry weight, fully developed package for aircraft use.  The package includes 40A Alternator, Dual Engine controllers,  Exhaust / Muffler, Air intake, K&N Filter, Starter, Radiator, Oil cooler, fuel pumps and Engine mounting for your airplane.   The engine is fully assembled.   $13,000   Looks like a very good alternative to the Rotax.  They haven't yet but likely to develop retro fitable turbo-charge down the road.

 Thanks,

 Bill McClellan

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Viking Aircraft engine

Fred,

There's plenty of room in the Europa (and total OBAM) community for you wild and crazy guys.  You are out there on the pointy end of this whole Experimental thing.  God bless you for all your efforts, failures and successes.  I hope to see you at RR this year.

BTW, nice looking cowl!

Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com

On Jan 27, 2012, at 1:15 PM, Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 27, 2012, at 4:27 AM, William Daniell wrote:

> I think the base Honda fit engine is a very interesting powerplant and the

> volume and quality control is unlikely to have the manufacturing problems

> that the aviation manufacturers have like dodgy cranks but I am personally

> am not up for the experimentation process required to get it flying.

> 

> There was a chap flying in Canada whose name escapes me with a Honda/CAM100.

 Will...that would be Alex Bowman who flies out of Nanaimo, BC...he has the CAM125 which is built around (I believe) a mid-80s Honda Civic engine...and he's been quite satisfied w/ performance, ops, and maintenance. He flew it to the EAA show at Arlington, WA back in 2004 or 5, and I've seen it at a fly-in at Pemberton, BC alongside Peter Timm's Classic. Alex is now in his late 80s and has had some medical issues which, I believe, have been the sole reason for why he has not been burning holes in the sky w/ his Europa...it remains a low-time aircraft, but I much admire what he has achieved. Incidentally, he built his plane where he lives on a small island "off the grid", and true to form, the manufacturers of the CAM engines have evaporated.

 Though the success rate for auto engine conversions for aircraft use may be low, Alex's CAM125 installation along w/ his Airmaster CS prop has been one of the success stories...of course, it would be more convincing to be able to point to say 10 Europas thus powered, each w/ a thousand hours and still going strong. Some listers may recall that w/ the demise of the original Europa company, I attempted to assemble a group of FWF'less builders to utilize Alex's production cowl molds and experience w/ mating the CAM125 to the Europa, but alas, that never happened.

 Of course, auto engine conversions are a subset of the question of whether or not one may choose to deviate from orthodoxy...anyone so interested can do some web searches and find any number of scholarly papers and descriptive narratives on the pros and cons of doing so.

 For myself...as I continue my XS mono powered w/ a derivative of a Subaru (the RAM Performance 140 hp, MPEFIed engine w/ an Autoflight helical-geared PSRU)...I spent about 15 months molding the cowls, designing and fabricating the mounting frame, ditto for cooling and tuned exhaust systems, plus temp & pressure sensors...176# "wet" but excluding cooling & exhaust systems.

 I find that a high tolerance for ambiguity has been essential...

 I will post test/performance data when available.

 I trust that there's a place in the Europa community for the occasional deviant,

 Fred

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