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william(at)gbta.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
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civengpe
Joined: 14 Feb 2011 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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You might want to consider the auto pilot harness, roll trim wires, and AOA or stall sensor.
Shannon 41153 On Feb 7, 2012 4:43 PM, "Billy & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net (william(at)gbta.net)> wrote:
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maca2790
Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 59 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Hi Bill,
I can't help you there with the Fuel Tank testing since I have Quick Build wings but the wiring issue I'm facing right now.
I'm using # 14 wire for the 55 watt Duckworks HIDs and # 16 for the Gretz Pitot heat. I bench tested my Gretz yesterday and it was drawing 7 amps.
The HIDs when I tested them drew around 5.5 amps each on start and then settled down to 3.5 amps. Duckworks recommend the use of #14 wire to aid the startup process.
I'm running ground wires for each of the Lights as well as the Pitot heat.
The ground return for the Fuel Senders and Stall warning are via the airframe. Check AC 43.13-1B chapter 11 for Electrical Information including the current carrying capacity of wire.
cheers
John MacCallum
Builder #41016
VH-DUU
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rv10flyer(at)verizon.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
Wires- I left my bottom skins off until the end. I put all the wires in as I went. However if you cut the conduit where the access panels are you will be able to add and route wires with the skins on without any issue.
Autopilot- let alone panel- are you 6 months from being done with the plane- I planned 18 months before I finished and went the Dynon route, the skyview was recently released and I felt I would be fine, but with technology going the way it is with experimental plan on a panel, wire for it and wait until you are completely ready before committing. In my case I ended up making changes anyway and lost about $200 in wiring changes (fast stack) if you are doing you’r own wiring than it would be a matter of adjusting pins for the new design.
I have the Dynon Skyview Autopilot- The servo looks like a Trutrak and the price is right. Dynon is excellent for customer service unlike the Gxxx certified company, if you want IFR, Dynon is working to improve their system but it is not there yet, great for VFR. As I mentioned above Dynon may be where you need by the time your ready, AFS uses Trutrak.
There is a –10 up in Norcal, he just bought his autopilot after flying 60 plus hours on his plane.. your don’t need a autopilot right away, you need to know what you will buy first than focus on the autopilot.
Hope this helps!
Pascal
From: Billy & Tami Britton (william(at)gbta.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
[quote]
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 680
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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If you have the vans conduit run, no problems with pulling wire after the bottom skins on. The ap and stall are near openings and be reached later
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 7, 2012, at 5:24 PM, "Billy & Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net (william(at)gbta.net)> wrote:
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
[quote]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth. Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote: Quote: | Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
| Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change in ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a round gauge) to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
Linn
snip
[quote] Pascal
Â
From: Billy & Tami Britton (william(at)gbta.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
Â
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.Â
Â
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Â
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Â
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
[b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1705 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Ditto for temperature changes. If you want peace of mind, leave balloon
for a couple days and compare how it deflates and re-inflates with temp
changes.
On 2/7/2012 5:14 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
Quote: | On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote:
> Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as
> Latex does that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any
> bubbles you are probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the
> balloon was slightly less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change
in ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a
round gauge) to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
Linn
snip
> Pascal
> *From:* Billy & Tami Britton <mailto:william(at)gbta.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
> I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one
> tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not
> found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon
> need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast
> from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the
> balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or
> perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
> Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings
> before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through
> vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires?
> I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge
> lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do
> not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything
> else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I
> simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
> Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan
> on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
> Thanks for any suggestions,
> Bill
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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william(at)gbta.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Thanks for the insight so far guys. After the first 2.5 hours the balloon is still the same size. I'll leave it overnight and check it in the morning. As for the autopilot harness, I'm sure it would be best to run it now but I really don't know what I'm going to use and probably won't mess with it until I decide on a panel (kinda up in the air between AFS and GRT right now). However, it's taken me 3 winters so far to get to this point on the wings so any plans I have now may completely change before I need to start planning the panel. This is the biggest reason I'm not buying anything other than mainly airframe stuff at this point.
Thanks again,
Bill
From: Linn Walters (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:14 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote: Quote: | Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
| Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change in ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a round gauge) to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
Linn
snip
[quote] Pascal
From: Billy & Tami Britton (william(at)gbta.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth. Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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On 2/7/2012 7:34 PM, Billy & Tami Britton wrote: Quote: | Thanks for the insight so far guys. After the first 2.5 hours the balloon is still the same size. I'll leave it overnight and check it in the morning. As for the autopilot harness, I'm sure it would be best to run it now but I really don't know what I'm going to use and probably won't mess with it until I decide on a panel (kinda up in the air between AFS and GRT right now).
| If you haven't yet, check out MGL .... http://www.mglavionics.com/.
Linn
[quote] However, it's taken me 3 winters so far to get to this point on the wings so any plans I have now may completely change before I need to start planning the panel. This is the biggest reason I'm not buying anything other than mainly airframe stuff at this point.
Â
Thanks again,
Bill
From: Linn Walters (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:14 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote: Quote: | Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
| Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change in ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a round gauge) to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
Linn
snip
Quote: | Pascal
Â
From: Billy & Tami Britton (william(at)gbta.net)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
Â
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.Â
Â
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Â
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Â
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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n801bh(at)netzero.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Temp will play a bigger part then ambient air pressure.. And latex balloons leak badly, so you will see a smaller inflation of the balloon anyway. Best test is the bubble route... No bubbles - no leaks..IMHO.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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On my RV-8A I did the leak test and all, then ended up with a weeping rivet on one tank (small blue fuel stain around the rivet). This happened before paint so the fix was painless. On the RV-10 I did the leak test again, but then put about 5 gallons of avgas in each tank, the tanks off the wings. I left the tanks sit for a week or so then rotated each to a new position and let them sit for another week. This way I got gas to sit on each rivet for a few days. No weeps this time.
The side benefit of this weep test is that it provides an initial flush of the tank. I drained the fuel via the sump fitting using an automotive inline filter to a 5 gallon can. The next flush will be with the wings on the plane, an automotive filter in place of the real fuel filter, and gas pumped through the system to gas cans. This process also provided means to calibrate the float fuel gauges and perform the required test to verify adequate fuel system flow (after you replace the temporary filter with the real fuel filter).
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy & Tami Britton
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:25 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4" conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
http://forums.matronics.com[/url] - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; -Matt http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [/quote]
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wgreenley
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Dowagiac, MI
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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Is there any reason simply to cleco the bottom skin on, but wait to
rivet it until much later in the build.
Bill Greenley
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Billy & Tami Britton <william(at)gbta.net> wrote:
Quote: | Thanks for the insight so far guys. After the first 2.5 hours the balloon
is still the same size. I'll leave it overnight and check it in
the morning. As for the autopilot harness, I'm sure it would be best to run
it now but I really don't know what I'm going to use and probably won't mess
with it until I decide on a panel (kinda up in the air between AFS and GRT
right now). However, it's taken me 3 winters so far to get to this point on
the wings so any plans I have now may completely change before I need to
start planning the panel. This is the biggest reason I'm not buying
anything other than mainly airframe stuff at this point.
Thanks again,
Bill
From: Linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:14 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote:
Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does
that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are
probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly
less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change in
ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a round gauge)
to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
Linn
snip
Pascal
From: Billy & Tami Britton
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:24 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The
balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so
far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not
going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy
water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of
time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next
tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I
install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4"
conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz
heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID
position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted
antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or
any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are
installed?
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on
using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
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psychobob96(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring |
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For your wire sizes, take a look in AC 43-13. they have wire sizing charts in there according to length, current and Voltage.
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:28 AM, William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com (wgreenley(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com (wgreenley(at)gmail.com)>
Is there any reason simply to cleco the bottom skin on, but wait to
rivet it until much later in the build.
Bill Greenley
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Billy & Tami Britton <william(at)gbta.net (william(at)gbta.net)> wrote:
Quote: | Thanks for the insight so far guys. After the first 2.5 hours the balloon
> is still the same size. I'll leave it overnight and check it in
|
Quote: | the morning. As for the autopilot harness, I'm sure it would be best to run
it now but I really don't know what I'm going to use and probably won't mess
> with it until I decide on a panel (kinda up in the air between AFS and GRT
|
Quote: | right now). However, it's taken me 3 winters so far to get to this point on
> the wings so any plans I have now may completely change before I need to
|
Quote: | start planning the panel. This is the biggest reason I'm not buying
anything other than mainly airframe stuff at this point.
>
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Quote: | Subject: Re: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
>
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Quote: | On 2/7/2012 6:42 PM, Pascal wrote:
Leave the balloon on overnight. It will probably lose some air as Latex does
|
Quote: | that but if you fill it pretty full and don’t see any bubbles you are
> probably fine. In my case I left it overnight and the balloon was slightly
|
Quote: | less inflated, my tanks haven’t leaked.
>
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Quote: | Barring any leaks the balloon may get bigger or smaller with a change in
|
Quote: | ambient air pressure. If you set your altimeter (if you have a round gauge)
> to 0 Ft. you can correlate what the balloon does.
|
Quote: | Subject: Fuel tank leak testing, wing wiring
I'm using vans fuel tank leak testing kit and have completed one tank. The
> balloon is holding air and using soapy water, I've not found any leaks so
|
Quote: | far. My question is how long does the balloon need to hold air. It's not
going down, or leaking anywhere--atleast from what I've seen using the soapy
> water. Do I need to leave the balloon connected for a certain amount of
|
Quote: | time (over night, or perhaps just a few hours) before I move onto the next
tank.
Next, how do I determine what wire sizes to run through the wings before I
> install my bottom skins. I already have strings ran through vans 3/4"
|
Quote: | conduit. Is this good for now or should I pull wires? I've got a Gretz
heated pitot, will have Duckworks leading edge lights, and some type of HID
> position/strobes in the wingtips. I do not plan on any wingtip mounted
|
Quote: | antennas, so, have I missed anything else? Is there any of these items, or
any I may have missed, that I simply cannot do after the bottom skins are
> installed?
|
Quote: |
Next, question is regarding the autopilot. I don't know what I plan on
using yet. Can this all be completed later?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Bill
>
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