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kees de bussy
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Location: the netherlands
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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Hi all,
This is about a Europa XS with the 912S and the oval exhaust silencer.
2 years ago I had a burned coolant hose (to cylinder 2) because the hose runs too close over the exhaust. This was a very scaring experience because it happened just after take-off at low altitude. So the replacement was well protected with heat shielding. But doing so makes the o.d. larger and therefor the heatshielded hose is actually quite heavily pressing on the silencer.
Now I like to solve this properly and I plan to cut the 2 rear downstacks to allongate them by 1-2 cm. But before doing so I would like to know if others recognizes this lack of space too. I hardly can imagine that my Europa is the only one with this problem, but I could not find a topic about it in this forum. So any suggestions how others have solved it, or reasons why not to cut the rear stacks are most welcome.
Kees de Bussy
Europa XS TG PH-SBR
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Ivor Phillips
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:03 am Post subject: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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Hi Kees
This may not be useful to you as I have a 914 but I replaced all my hoses
With quality silicone ones with reflective heatsheald sleeving over them,
But the only hose I have closer to the exhaust than I would like is the Main Port
Radiator hose 25mm were it comes through the ducting, But even here it has about ¼ inch and is still fine after 4 years,
Best wishes
ivor
On 20 February 2012 15:35, kees de bussy <keesdebussy(at)hotmail.com (keesdebussy(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "kees de bussy" <keesdebussy(at)hotmail.com (keesdebussy(at)hotmail.com)>
Hi all,
This is about a Europa XS with the 912S and the oval exhaust silencer.
2 years ago I had a burned coolant hose (to cylinder 2) because the hose runs too close over the exhaust. This was a very scaring experience because it happened just after take-off at low altitude. So the replacement was well protected with heat shielding. But doing so makes the o.d. larger and therefor the heatshielded hose is actually quite heavily pressing on the silencer.
Now I like to solve this properly and I plan to cut the 2 rear downstacks to allongate them by 1-2 cm. But before doing so I would like to know if others recognizes this lack of space too. I hardly can imagine that my Europa is the only one with this problem, but I could not find a topic about it in this forum. So any suggestions how others have solved it, or reasons why not to cut the rear stacks are most welcome.
Kees de Bussy
Europa XS TG PH-SBR
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kees de bussy
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Location: the netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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Hi Ivor,
Thanks for your reply. I have just mounted a shielded silicon hose so that is done. But I just don't like a hose pressing on the silencer so I want to create at least some clearence. At the moment the silencer is even a littlebit pushed down so there is some leakage of exhaust gas here. This is because the new hoseprotection is a bit thicker than I have used before.
I still wonder if I am the only one with this problem or ar my downpipes wrong manufactured?
Kees de Bussy
PH-SBR
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Kees,
I have had good success by changing the 90 degree angle socket which comes out of the water pump and runs the lower #2 cylinder hose very close to the muffler) to a 45 degree as on the 914 setup. This is a tight fit as both cylinder coolant hoses will run through that tiny V in the engine support, and will require patience and good practices to accomplish as most of us 914 owners have found. The best way to describe the move is to simply look at a 914. The socket tubes that are on the water pump are held in with green Loctite and with care and heat, come off. The threads are very fine so use modest heat from a torch until too hot to touch, continue the heat (about 600F) until the tube begins to unscrew. Turn the #4 cylinder pipe, to allow the #2 to unscrew and remove both. Heat while you unscrew and all works out. Clean and reapply Loctite IAW the Rotax manual. The Loctite sets up fast, so dry run and mark where the tubes should be before you glue them in place. Carefully refit the water pump, gaskets and O rings and this setup will last years.
On one aircraft I found an owner which put a straight nipple on the water pump and ran a longer hose which worked fine also. Parts are available through your Rotax Dealer.
We order our engines here with the ring mount attached and the tubes changed by the Rotax dealer. Normally this is done for no charge. On engines where the owner bought the ring mount separately we do the mod in house.
At Custom Flight we have done this mod to all our 912S models with great success and hose longevity. The new silicone hoses do hold up quite well if you decide to upgrade, but I would still cover my lower coolant hoses with heat shield. I use Thermotec brand, but any silvered heat shielding tube will work...
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Europa Tech Support
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
www.customflightcreations.com
(813) 653-4989
[quote] ---
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kees de bussy
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 18
Location: the netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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Hi Bud,
Thanks for your input. I have been thinking about this solution too. A straight socket however will interfere with the engine-mount. A 45 degree one will probably do the job. But because everything is mounted, all hoses have just been replaced I guess at this point it is easier to make the downpipes a little longer. A second advantage is that at the same time the oil hose at the bottom of the engine gets more clearance too.
Is there anything against making the downpipes a little longer ?
By the way my Europa, serial #A168 is the former N-303AU. So maybe you know the kit and builder.
Regards,
Kees de Bussy
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> I don't blame you, I do know that any hose within 1/2 inch with heat shield of the muffler doesn't last more than a few years without some air blowing on it. Even a short hose and a nippled metal extension will work for a longer down pipe. It just takes time.
I am not familiar with A168. Sorry.
Regards,
Bud
[quote] ---
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graeme bird
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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my silicon water pipe, the port side, the bent one to the radiator, split today, thankfully I was over the strip and shut off. It had been in place for about 160 hours/3 years having moved the radiator back after nearly burning through the original one during test flying. I thought silicon would last forever but it seems to have stiffened. In fact I am coming to the conclusion that on shutting down the close exhaust causes the static hot water in the pipe to boil and pressure builds at this point. It is this that used to cause a small weep that others have seen. I blocked that with a hefty clamp long ago, so there is no release and the stiffening pipe finally split- a 2" clean rupture.
So I shall change it each 100 hours in future and add some insulation around it. Perhaps I'll add a baffle in between and sleeve the pipe to prevent expansion.
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_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk |
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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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I moved the rad back as far as possible. Silicone pipe with silicone heat sleeve as well. It appears much better but it's only been just over a year.
Kevin Challis
| Quote: | On 10 Apr 2015, at 21:35, graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk> wrote:
my silicon water pipe, the port side, the bent one to the radiator, split today, thankfully I was over the strip and shut off. It had been in place for about 160 hours/3 years having moved the radiator back after nearly burning through the original one during test flying. I thought silicon would last forever but it seems to have stiffened. In fact I am coming to the conclusion that on shutting down the close exhaust causes the static hot water in the pipe to boil and pressure builds at this point. It is this that used to cause a small weep that others have seen. I blocked that with a hefty clamp long ago, so there is no release and the stiffening pipe finally split- a 2" clean rupture.
So I shall change it each 100 hours in future and add some insulation around it. Perhaps I'll add a baffle in between and sleeve the pipe to prevent expansion.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 150 hours 36 months on the Mono
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
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JohnFrance
Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Location: Grenoble France
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Lack of space between exhaust and coolant hose. |
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Dear All,
I have purchased new silicon hoses from Stefan in Sweden.
Before I fit them I want to make some heat shields to put on the cylinder 3 and 4 exhaust pipes to protect the radiator hoses.
To avoid having to go to the airport then remove the cowl just to get a size can anyone tell me what the OD of the pipes is please (Rotax 912 UL)?
I am thinking of a simple stainless steel clip wire locked to the pipe with a semi circular heat shield attached to it.
If anyone has had any good or bad experiences doing this (such as cracked pipes) and what to avoid I would be interested?
I have also purchased (from Amazon USA!) Themo Tec insulator sleeve which I intend putting on the silicon tubes. Belt and braces!
Thermo-Tec 14015 3' 1 1/2" I.D.Thermo-Sleeve
Regards to All
do not archive
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_________________
Europa mono Nr 192 |
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