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post curing

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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: post curing

For the assembled wisdom 



I need to post cure my flying surfaces.  How have people done this?  I

constructed a home-made "oven" as per the manual and didn't even get within

hailing distance of the temps required.  



How did others do this?



Yours



Will

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: post curing

Will,



You can see what I did by going to: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60876



I have pictures of the oven, heaters and temperature.



The oven was made by covering a rolling work bench I made up with 1" blue insulating foam.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Feb 26, 2012, at 6:07 AM, William Daniell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 For the assembled wisdom 

 

 I need to post cure my flying surfaces.  How have people done this?  I

 constructed a home-made "oven" as per the manual and didn't even get within

 hailing distance of the temps required.  

 

 How did others do this?

 

 Yours

 

 Will

kjburns(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: post curing

Will,

 

another solution is to wrap in electric blanket layered with old duvets, controled by constructing an aquarium controler in to a power suply lead....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-220-240V-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-C-/160591018252

 

The electric blanket will blow its thermal fuse if you do not insulate enougth to achieve the temperature you have dialed in.

 

Also avoid over lapping the electric elements in layers or the element will fail, also good practice to suply through an ELCB, and consider safety of your set up and  how and where you use it !

 

 

Kevin Burns. 

      

  From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2012, 13:37

 Subject:  Re: post curing

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)>



Will,



You can see what I did by going to: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60876



I have pictures of the oven, heaters and temperature.



The oven was made by covering a rolling work bench I made up with 1" blue insulating foam.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)



On Feb 26, 2012, at 6:07 AM, William Daniell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   -->  Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)>

 

 For the assembled wisdom 

 

 I need to post cure my flying surfaces.  How have people done this?  I

 constructed a home-made "oven" as per the manual and didn't even get within

 hailing distance of the temps required.  

 

 How did others do this?

 

 Yours

 

 Will> p;                 -Matt Dralle, Libution" =======


	






 

 

  

 [quote][b]

keithhickling(at)clear.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: post curing

William,



You need to take the thermostat out of circuit if you are using a fan

heater. They mostly have the adjustable thermostat which you can turn up

to about 30 degrees, and an additional safety thermostat which cuts the

power off at around 40 degrees as far as I recall. Aircraft Spruce

supply a kit with a thermostat that cuts the power off at about 80

degrees C and 2 thermometers. I used this as a safety backup, but found

that I could control the temp at 50 - 70 degrees by manually turning it

on and off. It would stay close to the required temp for 15 - 20 mins

after turning off. I also had a seperate fan to keep the air

circulating. I never went too far away from it during the whole process

and checked frequently that nothing was melting !



Regards,

Keith Hickling.

Keith Hickling,

New Zealand.

Kit 613.

--

kelvin.cobb(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: post curing

Hi all, I have a 10m autoclave in the Bristol area if anyone needs it....

 Kelvin (G-BZAM) On Feb 27, 2012 6:04 AM, "keith hickling" <keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz (keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz)> wrote:[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: keith hickling <keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz (keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz)>

 

 William,

 

 You need to take the thermostat out of circuit if you are using a fan

 heater. They mostly have the adjustable thermostat which you can turn up

 to about 30 degrees, and an additional safety thermostat which cuts the

 power off at around 40 degrees as far as I recall. Aircraft Spruce

 supply a kit with a thermostat that cuts the power off at about 80

 degrees C and 2 thermometers. I used this as a safety backup, but found

 that I could control the temp at 50 - 70 degrees by manually turning it

 on and off. It would stay close to the required temp for 15 - 20 mins

 after turning off. I also had a seperate fan to keep the air

 circulating. I never went too far away from it during the whole process

 and checked frequently that nothing was melting !

 

 Regards,

 Keith Hickling.

 Keith Hickling,

 New Zealand.

 Kit 613.

 

 

 --

riddon(at)sent.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: post curing

Hi William.



I built an 'oven' out of 2in Polystyrene sheets and used an electric greenhouse fan heater turned up to max for heat. To maintain an even temperature I wired a thermostat from an immersion heater into the mains supply and poked the sensor probe through the polystyrene. Worked a treat.



Richard Iddon



G-RIXS



Airborne once more.

On 27 Feb 2012, at 11:37, Kelvin Cobb wrote:



[quote] Hi all, I have a 10m autoclave in the Bristol area if anyone needs it.....

 Kelvin (G-BZAM)

 

 On Feb 27, 2012 6:04 AM, "keith hickling" <keithhickling(at)clear.net.nz> wrote:

 

 

 William,

 

 You need to take the thermostat out of circuit if you are using a fan

 heater. They mostly have the adjustable thermostat which you can turn up

 to about 30 degrees, and an additional safety thermostat which cuts the

 power off at around 40 degrees as far as I recall. Aircraft Spruce

 supply a kit with a thermostat that cuts the power off at about 80

 degrees C and 2 thermometers. I used this as a safety backup, but found

 that I could control the temp at 50 - 70 degrees by manually turning it

 on and off. It would stay close to the required temp for 15 - 20 mins

 after turning off. I also had a seperate fan to keep the air

 circulating. I never went too far away from it during the whole process

 and checked frequently that nothing was melting !

 

 Regards,

 Keith Hickling.

 Keith Hickling,

 New Zealand.

 Kit 613.

 

 

 --

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: Re: post curing

Hi Guys



I sewed up a post curing tent. It's a round sausage made out of vinyl using a 4" muffin fan to keep it inflated and a zipper to get to your stuff. I forget the exact dimensions but the aluminium tubes ate 10 feet long so it's close to that.BTW a YKK Zipper leaks very little pressure compared to Velcro. Inside I have a 1500 watt articulating heater and a small fan to keep the air inside from stratifying. I used a pyrometer or two from my hot air balloons to keep track of the temps as well as a digital probe style. We just drape some bubble wrap over the top to insulate a little better. Works great. I only have one pic. of it:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27251

Here we have two thin wall aluminium tubes holding it opened as we were using it in the winter to keep new layups warm after we shut down the heat. All our post curing was done at Waynes home with no tubes. A small square of Duct tape closes the holes for the tubes. It stores in a bag smaller than a shopping bag.



If anyone is interested I also sewed up a 10' wide by 20" long and 9 foot high tent that lives resident in my Tin hangar in NY. The sides are Velcroed in place and can easily be removed to turn it into a hangar (top stays put 9' off the ground). Wew have heat from our home made heat exchanger and air conditioning.



Also is a sewn up was our paint booth. It rolls up to a big Q-tip when not being used. It has filtered air coming through a huge filter sewn to one side:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27216

The pics only show it 10 feet long, but I can add extra to make it large enough to paint the fuse and glider wings. The idea is the large 30" fan is blowing in fresh air through the filter that is close to the size of the wall. The air is going very slow. Then I have an attic fan in the door with a furnace filter in it. The 30" overcomes the attic naf and pressurizes the tent. I have to be careful, we need to put a restrictor over some of the intaqke side of the 30" fan or it will make the tent so hard it will fail. I should really sew up a "horses ass" relief valve, just a 8" tube with a rubber band holding it closed. It hangs fro two 10' tubes and once inflated can easily support 50 or more pounds hanging from the tubes.



Ron Parigoris

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:01 am Post subject: post curing

Thanks for the suggestions...



Crikey - there seems to be a lot of work in this and a requirement for

stable electrical supply which presents a challenge in Colombia.  I think I

am going to be lazy and seek a car paint oven or autoclave.



Yours



Will



--

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: post curing

It really isn't difficult or expensive, Will.I used polystyrene sheets (4 of 4x8') to make the oven against a wall. That takes maybe an hour, and you can re-use the sheets to insulate your house.

Put in a fan to circulate the air, a 3kw fan heater, and one or two of the cheap 'outdoor' thermometers, where you drop the probes through one or two holes in the top. With the oven empty,turn it all on and play with the settings on the heater until the temperature stabilizes where you want it. 

Make sure you put some kind of baffle in front of the heater so there is no hot spot. Beforehand you also need to  modify the heater to bypass the thermal safety cutout.

Karl



[quote] From: wdaniell(at)etb.net.co

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: post curing

 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 07:00:54 -0500

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>

 

 Thanks for the suggestions...

 

 Crikey - there seems to be a lot of work in this and a requirement for

 stable electrical supply which presents a challenge in Colombia.  I think I

 am going to be lazy and seek a car paint oven or autoclave.

 

 Yours

 

 Will

 

 --

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: post curing

Hi Will 

 	You could always construct a black plastic sheet tent outside in the summer sun. Watch out for overhrating though! Open the doors and carefully monitor. Applied Arcaic Technology! 

 	Ron Parigoris 

 	"and a requirement for stable electrical supply which presents a challenge in Colombia."     [quote][b]

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: post curing

thanks that sounds more like a  “developing market” solution

 

When I use a heat gun sometimes all the lights go out….followed by wisps of smoke from the electrical outlet.  The toil and strife gets a little peeved when the lights go out…again

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us

Sent: 28 February, 2012 09:58

To: Europa

Subject: RE: Re: post curing



 

Hi Will

You could always construct a black plastic sheet tent outside in the summer sun. Watch out for overhrating though! Open the doors and carefully monitor. Applied Arcaic Technology!

Ron Parigoris

"and a requirement for stable electrical supply which presents a challenge in Colombia."  	  Quote: 	
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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: post curing

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Ron, and everyone so kind to share your setups.

 Just keeping the work in the un-airconditioned shop during cure works well  for me during the Florida summers.  The barn gets 115 degrees in  the summer.

  

 I share the concern of many of you on post curing.   Especially now that Gurit Manufacturing no longer supplies Ampreg 20,  and Europa is now forced into using Ampreg 21 exclusively in the  kits.  This is a great laminating resin, it is more difficult to cure at  room temp of 18C or about 65 degrees with all but the fast hardener and the time  to pull from the mold or pull the peel ply is at least 16-20 hours, increasing  shop cure time...  Gurit recommends a 50C or 122F cure for 16 hours before  de-molding, which is a long time..  

  

 I am working with Dave Goddard and Jon Pool at the Europa center to explore  a new chapter on heat curing the 21.  In the European and northern markets,  you may find the 21 cures way too slow and the MSDS and instructions from Gurit  require a well above room temperature post cure to allow sanding and  handling the next day.  I have no alternatives for those of you in  Europe.  See the the Gurit instructions:  http://www.gurit.com/files/documents/ampreg-21v7pdf.pdf

  

 As many of you know I use Aeropoxy (similar to Ampreg 20) for my  laminations as it cures at 75F in modest humidity and is sandable in 12  hours.  So overnight post cure is simply: set the thermostat in the shop  and go home.  This is not the case everywhere of course, but very easy to  achieve...

  

 I'll let you all know what we come up with.

 Glad to hear and see your post cure ideas.  I have used an old dryer  with thermostat but alas the old girl gave out and I need to build a new post  cure heater.

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Europa Tech Support

 [quote]   ---

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