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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft |
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At 11:00 AM 3/21/2012, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Interesting. The FAA refers to ultralights as vehicles and uses that as it's justification for not providing ATC services to ultralights - because they are legally not aircraft. |
A common misconception. I don't have the references handy, but the definitions section of the FARs defines "aircraft" as anything that flies. Part 91 applies to "aircraft other than ultralight vehicles", but never says that an ultralight isn't an aircraft... rather, an "ultralight vehicle" is a type of "aircraft". So this new law is stupid, language reiterating something that is already law. But it makes politicians feel good...
-Dana
--
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
[quote][b]
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircr |
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I disagree. "Part 91 Subpart A—General § 91.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and §§91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast."
FAR part 103 always refers to Ultralights as vehicles, never as aircraft.
On a more personal level, I spent most of my ATC career at TRI, and (back in 1983-1987) because of this very issue, I finally licensed my Part 103 legal Hummer as an Experimental Homebuilt under part 91. The regional office told the tower chief who then briefed all of us that U/L vehicles could not be given any ATC services because there was no way of ascertaining if the operator could adhere to ATC instructions, (no license or knowledge requirements) and since there were no requirements for ultralight vehicles to have altimeters or compasses, it was impossible to issue instructions requiring headings or altitudes because there was no way to know if they could be carried out. The fact that I had a radio and was a known licensed pilot was irrelevant.
Since my airstrip is just inside the class D, (used to be called the Airport Traffic Area) trying to deal with the hoop-jumping-through of part 103 was a real hassle.
If they have changed that since I retired, I would be interested to hear about it and read the applicable regs if you have a part and paragraph quote.
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:15 am Post subject: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircraft |
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Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
§ 1.1 General definitions.
Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.
91.1(a) says it it applies to "aircraft other than... ultralight vehicles". It doesn't say that an "ultralight vehicle" isn't an aircraft, just that it's not subject to Part 91.
The FAA has ruled that ultralights are a legitimate "aeronautical activity" and must be allowed at any airport receiving federal funds, except where it would be unsafe to do so. Ultralights DO need prior permission to enter Class D, unlike an N-numbered plane which merely has to "establish contact-- this usually means a phone call first, not a radio call 5 miles out--- but it's generally allowed if it's not too busy. I know of guys who regularly fly PPGs into towered fields.
I used to fly PPG with a group operating from a sod farm that was barely (about 1/4 mile) inside a class D. We had no radios, and just had to call the tower first. The rules were stay below 200' and depart the class D. We lost it because some clown in a PPC (not one of our group) was flying there without permission, and flying low over the town. When I talked [unsuccessfully] with the local FSDO about restoring permission, I asked about flying in to the airport itself in my Ultrastar, and was told no problem, just call the tower first.
-Dana
At 11:29 PM 3/21/2012, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
I disagree. "Part 91 Subpart A—General § 91.1 Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and §§91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast."
FAR part 103 always refers to Ultralights as vehicles, never as aircraft.
On a more personal level, I spent most of my ATC career at TRI, and (back in 1983-1987) because of this very issue, I finally licensed my Part 103 legal Hummer as an Experimental Homebuilt under part 91. The regional office told the tower chief who then briefed all of us that U/L vehicles could not be given any ATC services because there was no way of ascertaining if the operator could adhere to ATC instructions, (no license or knowledge requirements) and since there were no requirements for ultralight vehicles to have altimeters or compasses, it was impossible to issue instructions requiring headings or altitudes because there was no way to know if they could be carried out. The fact that I had a radio and was a known licensed pilot was irrelevant.
Since my airstrip is just inside the class D, (used to be called the Airport Traffic Area) trying to deal with the hoop-jumping-through of part 103 was a real hassle.
If they have changed that since I retired, I would be interested to hear about it and read the applicable regs if you have a part and paragraph quote.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Gabrielle Gifford's Drug Bill Targets Ultralight Aircr |
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Well good. Hopefully no one else will have to play the silly games that I did. Appreciate it.
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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