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HID lighting observations

 
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

I'm still waiting to get into the lab to do some
quantitative testing on some HID light kits. In
the mean time, I've installed a pair on my Kia
mini-van. I've observed the following:

The lights generate noticeable but not overwhelming
noise in the AM broadcast band during the warm up
phase. About 30 seconds. Don't hear it after the
lamps are warmed up.

The kits I have generate a strong transient of some
variety onto the bus when first turned on. If I have
the cruise control engaged at the time, it drops off
line. I have to shut the engine off completely to
get the cruise control to reset and wake up.

This sort of event isn't even watched for under DO-160
explorations. I'll have to set up on the bench to capture
and quantify this characteristic.

But in the mean time, be aware that a turn-on transient
MIGHT manifest in erratic behavior of some micro-processor
based electro-whizzies in your airplane. If any such events
are identified and repeatable, I'd like to know about them.
Bob . . .


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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

Well, to date I've sent in a G530 for a screen failure, AFS EFIS for a
power supply failure (pretty dramatic), and 3 Garmin 696s, though to
be fair, one was an out-of-the-box failure so not possibly due to
transients. The 696s were for a bad screen and failure to boot.

Since I had to pay for the 530 repair anyway, I opened up the box to
peek inside. There was a burnt piece of something laying in the
bottom of the chassis. Not good. I let the professionals deal with
that one.

So I haven't had the best of luck with the "delicate" avionics. I do
have suppression diodes on all the contactors, and after the EFIS
failure I double checked each one for function and installation.
Everything was wired correctly.

--Dave Saylor

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Quote:

<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

I'm still waiting to get into the lab to do some
quantitative testing on some HID light kits. In
the mean time, I've installed a pair on my Kia
mini-van. I've observed the following:

The lights generate noticeable but not overwhelming
noise in the AM broadcast band during the warm up
phase.  About 30 seconds. Don't hear it after the
lamps are warmed up.

The kits I have generate a strong transient of some
variety onto the bus when first turned on. If I have
the cruise control engaged at the time, it drops off
line. I have to shut the engine off completely to
get the cruise control to reset and wake up.

This sort of event isn't even watched for under DO-160
explorations. I'll have to set up on the bench to capture
and quantify this characteristic.

But in the mean time, be aware that a turn-on transient
MIGHT manifest in erratic behavior of some micro-processor
based electro-whizzies in your airplane. If any such events
are identified and repeatable, I'd like to know about them.
 Bob . . .




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trj03(at)ca.rr.com
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

> But in the mean time, be aware that a turn-on transient
> MIGHT manifest in erratic behavior of some micro-processor
> based electro-whizzies in your airplane. If any such events
> are identified and repeatable, I'd like to know about them.

When I upgraded from halogen to HID lights several years ago I had a problem with this. My own design PIC based wig-wag controller no longer worked at all. I found that the HID lights had a huge inrush current each time they switched on. I tried a few fixes and got the best results by running the HID power and ground wires together through a 1/2” dia X 1” long ferrite core. Using two in series worked even better.

The first time I tested the ferrites I used a split half type because it is easier to pop on and off in different locations. While I was watching the scope I noticed a new, fairly loud clicking sound coming from the HID controller area. It turned out to be the split ferrite half's snapping together each time power came on. That is some serious energy transfer!

Tom Johnson

[quote][b]


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

Quote:
When I upgraded from halogen to HID lights
several years ago I had a problem with this. My
own design PIC based wig-wag controller no longer worked at all.

Did the PIC wander off into the weeds and lock up?

Quote:
I found that the HID lights had a huge inrush
current each time they switched on. I tried a
few fixes and got the best results by running
the HID power and ground wires together through
a 1/2” dia X 1” long ferrite core. Using two in series worked even better.

Ferrites are sometimes useful for repetitive events
like noise but less useful for transient events like
inrush currents.

I'll try to get some transient/running captures on
the two HID units I have here. I could probably
get some data on the ones in the car too if I can
find my current probes for the 'scope. I'm still un-packing
move boxes.
Quote:

The first time I tested the ferrites I used a
split half type because it is easier to pop on
and off in different locations. While I was
watching the scope I noticed a new, fairly loud
clicking sound coming from the HID controller
area. It turned out to be the split ferrite
half's snapping together each time power came
on. That is some serious energy transfer!

I'm reminded of some strange noises I used to hear
periodically up in the ceiling structure of a new
building put up by my employer. Out in the shops
I used to hear a noise that seemed to come from
the conduits.

I later came to understand that this was the
convulsive thrashing of the ac wiring that went
out to large motors at the back of the building.
Every time a big motor started up, induced repulsion
of the adjacent wires in the conduit made noises.

Good data Tom.
Bob . . .


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trj03(at)ca.rr.com
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

> Did the PIC wander off into the weeds and lock up?

Usually it would make one and a half wig-wags and then lock up, requiring a power cycle to recover. At that time I was not utilizing the PIC Brown-out Reset (BOR) feature. I’ll bet that would have given me a clean reset. Once I knocked the inrush spike down a little I never saw the problem again.

I had never needed to fix an inrush issue before and I assumed that a quick internet search would yield a handful of simple solutions. What I found is that high inrush current is a growing problem for modern electronics, and if it’s not dealt with in the original design it can be real hard to fix later.

The neatest solution I read about (but never got around to trying) is to ramp up voltage to the HID controller slowly. I was already using a P-FET to switch power on/off so it didn’t sound too difficult to do that.

Tom Johnson

[quote][b]


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Brantel



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: HID lighting observations Reply with quote

The newer HID ballast have circuitry to limit the inrush current.

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