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JHOSLER(at)epri.com
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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What about those holes in the pie pan guys?
Once my mechanic installed the filter backwards. Only airflow was thru the small center hole. Engine would run but died above 1500 rpm. Hope these holes are not meant to solve that problem.
John
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BILL9725(at)AOL.COM
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 3:17 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes
Hi Gary
I do have a JIP 4 cylinder and did run some tests on it when we put the new engine in, but don`t have the data anymore, best I could remember was the CHT went up on all cylinders, but EGT went down, I assumed due to different flow patterns. But a note here also installed a fine mixture adjustment then and that may have contributed to the different patterns also. You have a good idea and I will see if I still have the original filter in Hanger and if so will do some tests. Best I could saw was with original motor, 2200 hrs, it ran a lot stronger with the Bracket, but no JIP then so hard to say.
Will have to do some new tests just for fun though, do you have a stock filter lying around in case I discarded my old one. Great reason for visiting Auburn again.
Thanks
Bill
In a message dated 7/4/2011 11:44:42 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: |
Bill,
If you have a 4 cylinder EGT/CHT, particularly a fast responding JPI, if you could, get a stock air filter and do some independent testing on the filters.
Gary
From: "BILL9725(at)AOL.COM" <BILL9725(at)AOL.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 11:06:24 AM
Subject: Re: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes
Hi
I have been using a Challenger filter on my Tiger (75), for last 4 years and it does make a difference, as Gary says, mileage does vary, but on a run-out 0 360 it raised the full throttle ceiling from 8000 per the manual to closer to 9000 ft on the same day so it does breath better. As a long time user of the same filters in my car, Flow master, they do actually give more air volume, and also as Gary says probably make the unbalance of our intake even worse! On a new 0 360 I can say that the Challenger may even help more, even at 14,000 it still has throttle left. Of course when I can afford Gary`s wonder I will be in heaven!
Bill
In a message dated 7/3/2011 10:34:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bvnj(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: |
Guys,
My Brakett air filter bottom pie pan has several holes in it. Please see the picture. They don't make sense to me because I think that they let unfiltered air into the carb. Are those holes supposed to be there? Why?
A related subject. Is challenger filter installed with pie pans? Does it come with it's own pans or is one supposed to reuse the original ones? Does anybody have experience with challenger on 78 tiger? It looks like it may not be a good fit:
http://m831.photobucket.com/image/improper%20filter%20tiger/airmaster1/Challenger%20VS%20Brackett%20air%20filter/IMG_3783-1.jpg.html?o=0
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CD130D.78905580[/img]
Thank you,
Boris.
On Jul 2, 2011, at 2:22 PM, bvnj(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi Gary,
>
> My cabin heat scat tube has a splitter. 3 inch line goes to exhaust pipe shroud and a 1inch line used to go to nose bowl diaphragm to supply fresh air. Do you know what it is for? My guess is that without it the hot air is too hot and it could damage the plastic defroster vents and maybe even windshield.
> I don't see where does this 1 inch line connects to now. Where have you been connecting it to?
>
> Thank you,
> -Boris | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution============ |
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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On 4/5/2012 6:21 AM, Hosler, John wrote:
| Quote: | What about those holes in the pie pan guys?
Once my mechanic installed the filter backwards. Only airflow was thru
the small center hole. Engine would run but died above 1500 rpm. Hope
these holes are not meant to solve that problem.
John
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There should be no holes in the end plate. Even so, the holes were
probably added for some other unknown reason and they will only bypass a
very small percentage of unfiltered air. New end plates are available,
but the holes could be covered temporarily with aluminum tape. It also
looks like you end plate has worn significantly at the outer edge from
rubbing against the block on the cover door. It may fit to loose in the
filter housing due to missing foam seals, which should be replaced if
need be.
Cliff
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JHOSLER(at)epri.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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Cliff:
Thanks!
The design of the air filter holder and the means for containing it
within the air box is perhaps the worst design issue with the Grummans.
A redesign that would hold the filter reliably in the correct (centered
position in the air box) would be very helpful.
Now they just fall to the bottom and fret away.
John
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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On 4/5/2012 7:29 AM, Hosler, John wrote:
[quote]
Cliff:
Thanks!
The design of the air filter holder and the means for containing it
within the air box is perhaps the worst design issue with the Grummans.
A redesign that would hold the filter reliably in the correct (centered
position in the air box) would be very helpful.
Now they just fall to the bottom and fret away.
John
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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John,
The holes and that end plate are from an early airbox. There used to be a (spring type strap) piece on the back that would center on the original airbox. It's really a stupid idea. It would never work. I'm sure the same lead engineer that approved that design also approved many of the other designs I have listed in my "Dumb Design Decisions" on my web site.
Later airboxes have a more rigid back plate. They are designed a little better. Don't worry about unfiltered air. Carb heat supplies far more unfiltered air than those holes ever will.
There is no way to keep the filter from falling down and fretting on the stop on the airbox door. Gravity and vibration make sure of that. I have glued onto the rear plate on my air filter 2 strips of the double beaded windshield seal. Cut the beads open so they fold over. Fill them full of grease or you'll never get the air filter back out. It fits so snug that you can't believe it. Even with that, the air filter will move down onto the bottom block; probably within the first few hours of operation (my guess).
There is supposed to be a phoney little tab in the corner on the near side. I replaced mine with a stanless steel tube that fits from front-to-back. At least there is more surface area to hold the filter in place.
Speaking of, on my first Cheetah, I returned unused heated to the inlet side of the airbox and blocked off hole on the bottom. I changed it back before I sold the plane. I also installed a PCV valve to see if I could stop oil blowing out the breather. I tried the setup from a 455 Olds since that's what I had. The blow-by was too much for it.
I asked on this venue at some time in the past if anyone had ever tried to install the airbox on a Tiger 180 degrees out just to see if it would fit. I may still do that. That would put the filter door on the top and the excess air being accelerated down the front of the cowling could be used as an inlet. All it takes is time and money.
Gary
From: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: flyv35b <flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com (flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com)>
On 4/5/2012 7:29 AM, Hosler, John wrote:
[quote] --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "Hosler, John"<JHOSLER(at)epri.com (JHOSLER(at)epri.com)>
Cliff:
Thanks!
The design of the air filter holder and the means for containing it
within the air box is perhaps the worst design issue with the Grummans.
A redesign that would hold the filter reliably in the correct (centered
position in the air box) would be very helpful.
Now they just fall to the bottom and fret away.
John
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flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: My Brakett air filter pie pan has holes |
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On 4/5/2012 10:44 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
| Quote: | I asked on this venue at some time in the past if anyone had ever tried
to install the airbox on a Tiger 180 degrees out just to see if it would
fit. I may still do that. That would put the filter door on the top and
the excess air being accelerated down the front of the cowling could be
used as an inlet. All it takes is time and money.
Gary
|
Maybe you could use your snorkel that you have for the redesigned AG5B
induction system.
BTW, why don't you make a snorkel for the O-320 engine 2 place with the
filter up at the top so the nose bowl inlet could be closed up. Smaller
round air inlets (new nose bowl). I know, just time and money!
Cliff
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