Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Sad day at Breckenridge TX
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/ 



Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many times before.

He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.

Doug

  [quote][b]

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/ 



Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many times before.

He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.

	




 Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he not only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing unnecessary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly tell my students:

 



"It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly unforgiving of mistakes."



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

 Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, the PK of Terra Firma remains 1. Leave yourself an out when the situation turns to shit. 

Sorry for the family and friends. The warbirds community has lost a great one.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Apr 5, 2012, at 12:01 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/ 



Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many times before.

He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.

Doug

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

That didn't take long.



Bill



On Apr 5, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:



[quote]



On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/ 



Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many times before.

He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.

	




 Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he not only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing unnecessary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly tell my students:

 



"It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly unforgiving of mistakes."



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

 Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

It is truly sad that a gentleman so in love with Aviation and with such

a tremendous background through multiple wars that included 11,000 hours

of flight time from Korea to Vietnam passed away in a crash.  But if you

will read a little history on this gent, you will learn that he also

walked away from three other war bird crashes and kept at it.  Ever

after his youngest daughter was lost in a crash, he kept on going. 



He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

neither do I.  Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.  



So be it.  



Mark Bitterlich

--

bu131(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Second it mark, howard had fun flying, I remember him from the old CAF real gentleman good pilot too.  He died the way I want to go, . More power to him, god has a special place for old pilots like him

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

 thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

 aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

 much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

 neither do I.   	




Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.

 



There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

 oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

 or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

 is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

 there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

	




Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.

 



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.

 



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:

He is dead.
The airplane is destroyed. 
It didn't have to happen.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

invert33(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

You are one callous individual Brian.



On 06/04/2012, at 11:09 AM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:



[quote]On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <[url=mailto:mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil]mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)[/url]> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

 thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

 aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

 much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

 neither do I.  	




Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.

 



There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

 oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

 or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

 is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

 there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

	




Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.

 



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.

 



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:

He is dead.
The airplane is destroyed. 
It didn't have to happen.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

[url=mailto:brian(at)lloyd.com]brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)[/url]

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

My common sense says to keep my mouth shut.  My IQ says to keep my mouth shut.  However, the retired Marine in me insists I reply to this person.  Above all, I am a retired Marine.  So here I go.  

 

Here's a straw poll.  

 

How many YAK List readers asked for Mr. Lloyds opinion on this pilots death?   

 

How many Yak List readers needed another lecture from Mr. Lloyd on how smart he is, and how dumb everyone else is?  

 

How many Yak List readers feel that his comments are inappropriate, uncaring, show no compassion for a dead pilots  family or friends, are totally judgemental, and are based purely on his constant belief that anything that comes out of his mouth must be true?  

 

Brian, take a hike.  Again.  Please.  Your comments make me want to puke.   I am a retired service member, I have spent 42 years in service to my country, and I am out here at Yuma Az. doing it again right now, and I do not think that you have the slightest clue of what it means to show compassion and honor to the service this man gave to YOUR country.  To you, none of that matters.     

 

Here's a big revelation for you.  Sometimes the TRUTH does not matter.  REALLY.  Sometimes it is about shutting your mouth and showing honor and respect for others that deserve it.  This is not saying that I admit to your interpretation of  "The Truth".  Very simply, I do not.  This is me telling you that you need to shut your pie hole.  You're a really great high school teacher.    Let's leave it at that.   Now please DROP THIS and move on to some other topic.  

 

Mark Bitterlich

  



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brian Lloyd

Sent: Thu 4/5/2012 9:09 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

	He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

	thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

	aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

	much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

	neither do I.  

Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.



There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

 



	Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

	oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

	or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

	is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

	there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

	

Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:



*	He is dead. 

*	The airplane is destroyed. 

*	It didn't have to happen.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

Dabear(at)devere.us
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Brian’s Comments:

 



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.



 



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:

He is dead.
The airplane is destroyed.
It didn't have to happen.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Bear’s Comments: So Brian,  you were there and saw the event?   Sorry, I have read some people’s account for this.  It doesn’t mean that is what occurred.  While I don’t like that a bearcat has been destroyed, I’m more upset and a fellow pilot being dead.  I’m glad the bearcat got to be flown and seen by people.  There are more than enough not flying in museums.   As to what occurred, we don’t know yet.  He might have lost an engine or other mechanical failure, or he might have had a medical issue.  Sitting behind the screen and making comments about something that we don’t have all the facts on, is wrong.   He is dead, The airplane is destroyed, 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3

  [quote][b]

invert33(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

I mostly agree with Mark with the exception of the following:

"move on to some other topic"

It would be grateful if you could move on to another list.





On 06/04/2012, at 1:58 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:



[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



My common sense says to keep my mouth shut.  My IQ says to keep my mouth shut.  However, the retired Marine in me insists I reply to this person.  Above all, I am a retired Marine.  So here I go.  



Here's a straw poll.  



How many YAK List readers asked for Mr. Lloyds opinion on this pilots death?   



How many Yak List readers needed another lecture from Mr. Lloyd on how smart he is, and how dumb everyone else is?  



How many Yak List readers feel that his comments are inappropriate, uncaring, show no compassion for a dead pilots  family or friends, are totally judgemental, and are based purely on his constant belief that anything that comes out of his mouth must be true?  



Brian, take a hike.  Again.  Please.  Your comments make me want to puke.   I am a retired service member, I have spent 42 years in service to my country, and I am out here at Yuma Az. doing it again right now, and I do not think that you have the slightest clue of what it means to show compassion and honor to the service this man gave to YOUR country.  To you, none of that matters.     



Here's a big revelation for you.  Sometimes the TRUTH does not matter.  REALLY.  Sometimes it is about shutting your mouth and showing honor and respect for others that deserve it.  This is not saying that I admit to your interpretation of  "The Truth".  Very simply, I do not.  This is me telling you that you need to shut your pie hole.  You're a really great high school teacher.    Let's leave it at that.   Now please DROP THIS and move on to some other topic.  



Mark Bitterlich

________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) on behalf of Brian Lloyd

Sent: Thu 4/5/2012 9:09 PM

To: [url=mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Subject: Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

    He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

    thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

    aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

    much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

    neither do I.  

Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.



There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

    Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

    oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

    or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

    is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

    there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

    

Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:



*    He is dead. 

*    The airplane is destroyed. 

*    It didn't have to happen.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

<==============================================

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

==========================             &nb   --> http://forums.matronics.com

==========================;           - List Conbsp;                     -Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http:/======================================================





[b]

crobin(at)skyvantage.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Honor heros, forget zeros.



Howard is a true legend. His legacy will echo throughout time and eternity.

  



Moving on...



Cory



PZL 104 Wilga'Beast'

M14P Powered

  [quote][b]

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself? 

Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument, none will agree with him.

Bill



On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:



[quote]On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  He sure has my admiration.  I am sorry that you are angered by the

 thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

 aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

 much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

 neither do I.  	




Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.

 



There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

 oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

 or dangerous.  One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

 is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

 there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

	




Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.

 



The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.

 



Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:

He is dead.
The airplane is destroyed. 
It didn't have to happen.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Group,

 

 First off, I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family and friends.

 I have seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races I have attended over the last 15+ years.

 

 While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical, medical, mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons to be learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practicing for an airshow/or performing at one, with precautions, yes: if not, no!).

 

 If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks, Warbirds, ect....), we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same mistakes.

 

 Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerobatics in their Yak-52.

 His attitude was, it is my aircraft, and I will do as I please!

 How would you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad, causing your local airport to close? (it has happened)

 The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mile limits imposed).

 This list goes on, and on, and on......

 

 As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several times, I had to stop the pilots from performing unauthorized (andÂ  non briefed), maneuvers!

 While there are risk involved in aviation, hopefully we are all taking action to mitigate them on every flight we take.

 

 Fly safe

 John Fischer

 Yak-52

 L-5A

 PT-19A

 

 

 

 

 

 On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill Geipel wrote: [quote]   Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself?Â 

   Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument, none will agree with him.

   

   

 Bill   

   

   

   

   

   

 On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:

   

   

    	  Quote: 	
		       On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

           	  Quote: 	
		  He sure has my admiration. Â I am sorry that you are angered by the

 thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable

 aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't

 much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,

 neither do I. Â  	
     

     

     Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.

     

     

     There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising GOOD judgement.

     Â 

      	  Quote: 	
		  Some people really live life to the fullest, and that

 oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,

 or dangerous. Â One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country

 is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that

 there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.

     	
     

     

     Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.

     

     

     The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.

     

     

     Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:

                 He is dead.       
The airplane is destroyed.       
It didn't have to happen.          

     

 -- 

 Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

 3191 Western Dr.

 Cameron Park, CA 95682

     brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

 +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)

     

      	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     

   



 href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com

 href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 [b]

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Bill Geipel <czech6(at)mesanetworks.net (czech6(at)mesanetworks.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself? 

Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument, none will agree with him.



	
  



I was going to let this go but I am going to post one more time in the hopes that I reach some of the "less-experienced" readers on this list who are still wondering what this is all about.

 



I am sure he was a good pilot. I am sure he was someone to be admired in the warbird community. And I am sure that *I* am sorry that his family is going to have to cope with his loss and that the warbird community has suffered yet another terrible accident and set-back. And lastly, none of us can change any of that. All we can do that is positive is to learn from it and try to assure the rest of the world that it won't happen again. 

 

One of the most difficult things to do in this world is to look at information from an undesired source and sift through it for something useful to learn from. Our own air and naval forces finally learned that one and systematically sought to learn from our enemies. I think that it is safe to say that, right now, the overwhelming view on this list is that I am a callous asshole who values an airplane more than the life of a great man and a great flyer, i.e. "The Enemy." No problem. 

 



But now, as professional pilots, many of you with military training, I want you to stop, turn off the emotion, get analytical, and place yourself in the cockpit of that F8F, about 230 degrees into that roll, right when you realize that the nose is already going through the horizon. If you are like me, your very first thought is, "Oh shit."  If there was time I suspect that his next two thoughts were, "my family," and finally, "oh hell, I'm gonna wreck this airplane." What I don't think was going through his mind was, "Yee haw, I'm going out doing what I love to do." I suspect that, at that moment, if he could have reset to the beginning of the roll he would have continued straight out to a safer altitude before beginning his aerobatics. But, unlike the sim, there is no reset button in the F8F.

 



Getting back to the analytical process here are some key questions. Was the roll on take-off planned? Was it briefed? Had it been repeatedly practiced at altitude to ensure consistency prior to doing it at low-level? Or was it just an ad-hoc spur-of-the-moment cool thing to do? If you are going to do something ad-hoc remember, attitude, airspeed, and altitude are all your friends. Looks like he ran out of at least two and maybe all three of those.

 



How many times have we heard, "Plan the flight and then fly the plan?" Sure we all know that things come up that will require a change of plan but even then, it is possible to build contingencies into our planning.

 



So, I don't know about the rest of you but I sure am tired of burying people who, frankly, didn't need to be buried yet. When it comes from doing something stupid and unthinking I desperately want to be able to yell at them but we all know nothing can come of that. They're dead. All that remains is to yell at everyone else and say, "See! That is what happens when you aren't thinking and planning!" Hopefully it will keep at least one other person from making a bad decision at least one time.

 

-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

 [url=tel:%2B1.767.617.1365]+1.767.617.1365[/url] (Dominica)

[url=tel:%2B1.916.877.5067]+1.916.877.5067[/url] (USA)



  [quote][b]

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:25 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 6:41 AM, John Fischer <fish(at)aviation-tech.com (fish(at)aviation-tech.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		             While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical, medical, mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons to be learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practicing for an airshow/or performing at one, with precautions, yes: if not, no!).

 

 If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks, Warbirds, ect....), we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same mistakes.



	




Thank you Mr. Fischer. I sincerely hope the people on this list who have closed their minds to me are listening to you. 



-- 

 Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Thanks John, 



I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely delighted at the lessons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know absolutely nothing about.  



Mark Bitterlich

  



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

And with that ... I'm out of this thread.  More comments from me only worsen the problem.  Manners:  When did we all lose them? 



Mark Bitterlich

 



--

hess737(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

Guys,

It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today that was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical issue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver, then I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today, people on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly. Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such event. That alone is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisions.



Happy Easter to all...



Richard Hess

C 404-964-4885



--

l39parts(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege.  Driving is a 'privilege' in most states, according to the statutes.  Is riding a bicycle a privilege?  Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was written or was a right?  Is walking a privilege?   What rights exactly do I have as a free man if moving around is a privilege?  I guess I have the right to remain silent.  Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.

  To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX

From: hess737(at)aol.com

Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 16:05:10 -0400

 Guys,

 It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today that was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical issue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver, then I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today, people on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly. Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such event. That alone is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisions.

 Happy Easter to all...

 Richard Hess

C 404-964-4885

 --

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum