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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Gary,
The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
Talk to you tomorrow.
LJM
|
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
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dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Barry,
I am the owner of 166. Right now, I am just skipping the right mag check which I consider to be no big deal, but I would like to make the situation better. Was the broken connection the vacuum connection inside the box or something electrical?
Thanks,
Dean
Dean White
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:51 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Gary,
The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
Talk to you tomorrow.
LJM
|
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Dean:
It was the MP/Vacuum line in the sliver box.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Dean White <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Barry,
I am the owner of 166. Right now, I am just skipping the right mag check which I consider to be no big deal, but I would like to make the situation better. Was the broken connection the vacuum connection inside the box or something electrical?
Thanks,
Dean
Dean White
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:51 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Gary,
The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
|
| Quote: | These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
|
| Quote: | Talk to you tomorrow.
LJM
|
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
0 12345 67
8
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
h --> |
[quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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|
Dean, this morning while taking a shower I got to thinking about the backfire. Get under the panel and disconnect the Electroair P-lead and connect it to a separate switch. It's a pain-in-the-ass, but that would fix it.
Gary
From: Dean White <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:35 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Barry,
I am the owner of 166. Right now, I am just skipping the right mag check which I consider to be no big deal, but I would like to make the situation better. Was the broken connection the vacuum connection inside the box or something electrical?
Thanks,
Dean
Dean White
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:51 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Gary,
The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
Talk to you tomorrow.
LJM
|
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
| Quote: |
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
|
01234567
8
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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|
Gary:
I don't know about what would happen with two units... Are they both tied to a common MP line? If so a leak anywhere in the line would affect both.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
h --> |
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
|
|
Hello, McFly . . .
I installed the Electroair on two different planes. Same result. Both backfire.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
I don't know about what would happen with two units... Are they both tied to a common MP line? If so a leak anywhere in the line would affect both.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
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JHOSLER(at)epri.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Then, why do you guys have these in your airplanes?
Stock stuff is pretty reliable.
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 2:13 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Hello, McFly . . .
I installed the Electroair on two different planes. Same result. Both backfire.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
I don't know about what would happen with two units... Are they both tied to a common MP line? If so a leak anywhere in the line would affect both.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
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===========
le, List Admin.
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===========
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Ok Gary:
The next thing I would check, if you haven't already is the timing for the pick-up that mounts on the accessory case/Mag hole.
There were two service bulletins on them a while back:
1 - For breaking wires where they exit the timing gear (yellow wire) and
2 - The Hall Effect Transistor
Now, I do realize these were OLD SB's and your unit is STC'd and going on GA aircraft. But,
who knows!
And another area of concern is the POOR quick-connect connection. I squeezed them so they would not move around.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hello, McFly . . .
I installed the Electroair on two different planes. Same result. Both backfire.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
I don't know about what would happen with two units... Are they both tied to a common MP line? If so a leak anywhere in the line would affect both.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
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===========
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===========
le, List Admin.
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Electro-Air backfire |
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Gee John:
Difficult question to answer. Maybe because some people are trying to bring our planes into the 20th Century. Hell with the 21st!
Like everything with our planes; when they work they are GREAT!
Better Spark
Better HP
Better Fuel Economy
Better HP at Altitude
Less Plug Fouling
Fewer Moving Parts
AND
BRAGGING RIGHTS!
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Hosler, John <JHOSLER(at)epri.com (JHOSLER(at)epri.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Then, why do you guys have these in your airplanes?
Stock stuff is pretty reliable.
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 2:13 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Hello, McFly . . .
I installed the Electroair on two different planes. Same result. Both backfire.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
I don't know about what would happen with two units... Are they both tied to a common MP line? If so a leak anywhere in the line would affect both.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
I could believe it happening on one, not two.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Electro-Air backfire
Gary:
This may help. I had the same problem on an RV6. When switching from Impulse Mag to Electro-Air CDI I was getting a backfire. I traced the problem to the Electro-Air vacuum box. The silver box where the MP/vacuum line connects to. The connection was broke inside the box and there was no vacuum advance. Fixed that and the problem has not reoccurred in the past two to three years.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Larry,
I was hoping your plane was an anomaly. I finished "166" Friday. The owner picked 'er up today. This morning, we took it down to the runup area and, you guessed it, it backfired going to right mag.
I tried it several times going from both to Right as quickly as possible. I'd say it backfired about half the time. Going from Left to Right nearly always backfired.
It may be that there is enough voltage to light any residual fuel in the exhaust that the Left mag doesn't fire. I don't know.
My first thought was to swap left right Mag connections on the switch. Tattoo would help going from both to Right but not from Left back to both since it still needs to go through Right to get there.
I'd like to try separate toggles for each mag like on a Citabria.
I'd also like to try dual electronic systems to see if it still backfires. The hotter spark may light up all of the residual fuel. By-the-way, I had it leaned all the way.
If it were mine, I'd skip the Right mag check.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 15, 2012, at 10:02 PM, Lawrence Massaro <lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com (lmassaro(at)tac-eng.com)> wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The more I think about it, I cant for the life of me understand how an electronic ignition would take 30+ mS to "fire". There has to be a problem with 1) the electronic ignition itself, or 2) the ignition switch is faulty somehow. If the backfire is as big as your say, it has to be multiple cylinders worth of gas igniting in the exhaust system
>
> These things are being installed on a lot of planes and have been on experimentals for a long time. This type of problem has to be some type of isolated case.
>
> Im not happy spending 3 grand on an ignition system that has this type of problem (a step back from what I had) and plan on calling Electro_Air tomorrow to discuss (give me a good number to call if you have one). If I don't hear what I want to hear from them or some ideas on what they think it is, Ill call Garner at Fletchair and make plans to ship the fucking thing back. Stand by.
>
> Talk to you tomorrow.
>
> LJM
>
>
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===========
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