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MOGAS APPROVAL

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mbeach(at)hartwigs.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

Gent’s  I know there has been quite a bit of discussion over the years on the operation of the Yaks & Nanchangs on Mogas.   

The question I have is there or has there been any formal approval given by the FAA to operate these aircraft on Mogas.   

I know in the Nanchang operational manual it states that they can operate on as low as 78octain.   

   

Any assistance in finding this out would be appreciated.   

   

   

   

REGARDS   

   

MICHAEL BEACH  

PARTS  MANAGER   

HARTWIGS  

1 TRAVEL STOP WAY  

LAVINGTON   

NSW 2641  

   

PH 0260496222  

FAX 0260496011  

MOBILE 0427692366  

   

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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

On Sunday, April 22, 2012, Michael Beach  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		                

Gent’s  I know there has been quite a bit of discussion over the years on the operation of the Yaks & Nanchangs on Mogas.   

The question I have is there or has there been any formal approval given by the FAA to operate these aircraft on Mogas.   

I know in the Nanchang operational manual it states that they can operate on as low as 78octain. 



	




You do not need FAA approval as the CJ6A operates under an experimental airworthiness certificate. I operated mine for many years on 87 AKI mogas without any problems. I stopped when California mandated ethanol in the fuel to replace MTBE.

 



So, if you can get mogas without alcohol I would say, "Go for it." 

As a side effect the plugs, oil, and belly of the airplane stay cleaner due to the lack of lead in the fuel. It is also typically at least a buck per gallon cheaper. 

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



  

  

   	




-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

 

  [quote][b]

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

The issue is not restricted to that of octane.

For octane, remember that Aviation and motor fuels measure octane in different ways, and, very roughly, 97 motor octane is about 91 aviation.

But M14P is fine for European 95 octane mogas., from an octane point of view.

Then there is the issue of the fuel attacking compounds in the fuel system. This is a slight unknown since the content of mogas varies greatly, but, in my view is unlikely to be a problem.

BUT, I feel the real area of concern is that of volatility, in that mogas is significantly more volatile than avgas-that is, it boils at a lower temperature.

This is particularly true of “winter” mogas which is more volatile to assist in starting.

So your worst scenario is with a low-wing plane [so the fuel needs to be sucked into the engine by a pump], still using “winter” mogas on a hot summer day; plane left in the sun, so the wing tanks heat up, and you go for take-off and your engine COULD find itself trying to run on vapour!!

But, avoid the winter fuel and keep the tanks cool, and I see no problem, and of course, in my estimation, about half of world-wide Yaks operate some or all of the time on mogas!

 

Richard Goode

 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

 

I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.



 

--  This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.    [quote][b]

ldakos(at)bigpond.net.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

Michael

CASA Australia has found one case (Skyfox C25N) where mogas attacked seals in the fuel pump it swelled causing fuel pump to leak, I found the same problem some years ago when racing Go-karts we were forced to use un-leaded the diaphragms in carby swelled, so I will not use it in my Cj6a.

I don't think it has been approved in Australia as yet for aircraft flying under the Limited category.

Regards Lou

 

 

 

Subject: MOGAS APPROVAL 

 

Gent’s  I know there has been quite a bit of discussion over the years on the operation of the Yaks & Nanchangs on Mogas. 

The question I have is there or has there been any formal approval given by the FAA to operate these aircraft on Mogas. 

I know in the Nanchang operational manual it states that they can operate on as low as 78octain. 

 

Any assistance in finding this out would be appreciated. 

 

 

  [quote][b]

wdjester(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

We do here in Florida.



Regards,



Dave Jester





On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, "Lee R. Haven" <leeh(at)emtinternational.com (leeh(at)emtinternational.com)> wrote:



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Thanks for the info on MOGAS.

 

Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly from 5 gallon cans?

 

Lee Haven | 

<image001.jpg>

EMT International, Inc.

780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155

( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991

Email: leeh(at)emtinternational.com (leeh(at)emtinternational.com)

Visit our website at emtinternational.com

Notice: For complete, proactive, communication any copy (CC  notice is to provide you with information only.  If you do not wish to continue to receive messages of this type, please reply to this message with the word "REMOVE" in the subject.   This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.

 



[b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

A quick story.  Our local airport here in New Bern North Carolina is very "pro FBO" and once tried to prohibit the very thing you are talking about.  They made an airport regulation that prohibited a person from bringing ANY type of fuel onto the airport and fueling ANY kind of airplane.  You were to buy your fuel from the FBO .... period "or else".  



Interestingly enough, the Feds weighed in on this one.  Since the airport accepts federal funds, they have to comply with federal regulations.  Since it has been proven that running some older engines on 100% 100LL fuel can cause damage, and said engines are approved to run MOGAS by the FAA, the airport is required to provide a means to put such fuel into airplanes and if they do not have MOGAS fuel available to be put into airplanes on the airport itself, then they cannot by law prohibit an aircraft owner from bringing it onto the airport and fueling his own airplane.  



The Airport Authority was forced to change their regulation prohibiting bringing fuel onto the airport.  Of course they then passed rules to make it as inconvenient as possible to do so, but that's another story.  



So bottom line, if your airport accepts federal funding, and does not have MOGAS available for sale at the airport for aircraft use, then they can't stop you from doing it. 



Reality of course is a totally different thing.  They can make an issue out of it, but a call to the FAA will change their minds very quickly.  Of course that has "consequences" as well.  Then expect all kinds of hassles about the type of container meeting safety regulations, leaving those containers at the airport, etc., etc., etc.  



Good luck. 



Mark Bitterlich

--

cpayne(at)joimail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

Richard,



In regards to mogas vapor pressure issues, I have not experienced anything like that with the CJ/M-14. Perhaps the pressure type carb is not as susceptible as the float type carb. However; when Florida's Big Sugar lobby got ethanol onto our mogas, *stuff* started happening to seals, even before the warning labels about ethanol content showed up on the retail pumps.



Today, I mix 100LL with "Boat Gas", AKA "Recreational 90 octane" without ethanol. Ethanol blended fuels made a sorry mess out of built-in fuel tanks on fiberglass boat hulls, turned them into "gloop".



OTOH, I have seen vapor pressure issues with various homebuilts, such as the RV series with fiberglass/foam cored cowlings, which make great insulators and hold in the heat,



Craig Payne

pilotdog57(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

Does anyone run Mogas with ethanol? I used to run Mogas most of the time when 

It was mixed with MTBE- but ethanol mix has me running 100 LL. 

Any one been running ethanol mixed Mogas long enough to have developed

a informed opinion? I am running an M14P in a CJ6.

Thanks. Doug Zeissner

Sent from my iPad



On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:17 AM, David Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:



[quote]We do here in Florida.



Regards,



Dave Jester





On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, "Lee R. Haven" <leeh(at)emtinternational.com (leeh(at)emtinternational.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Thanks for the info on MOGAS.

 

Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly from 5 gallon cans?

 

Lee Haven | 

<image001.jpg>

EMT International, Inc.

780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155

( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991

Email: leeh(at)emtinternational.com (leeh(at)emtinternational.com)

Visit our website at emtinternational.com

Notice: For complete, proactive, communication any copy (CC  notice is to provide you with information only.  If you do not wish to continue to receive messages of this type, please reply to this message with the word "REMOVE" in the subject.   This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.

 







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[b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

With Mogas do you add stabilizer to gas if you are going to have the A/C down for a while?

Knowing some of the crap they put in Mogas can gum up the floats and plastic in auto carbs I would assume it would do the same to a CJ engine that was stood down for awhile.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:46 PM, Cpayne <cpayne(at)joimail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Richard,

 

 In regards to mogas vapor pressure issues, I have not experienced anything like that with the CJ/M-14. Perhaps the pressure type carb is not as susceptible as the float type carb. However; when Florida's Big Sugar lobby got ethanol onto our mogas, *stuff* started happening to seals, even before the warning labels about ethanol content showed up on the retail pumps.

 

 Today, I mix 100LL with "Boat Gas", AKA "Recreational 90 octane" without ethanol. Ethanol blended fuels made a sorry mess out of built-in fuel tanks on fiberglass boat hulls, turned them into "gloop".

 

 OTOH, I have seen vapor pressure issues with various homebuilts, such as the RV series with fiberglass/foam cored cowlings, which make great insulators and hold in the heat,

 

 Craig Payne

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

On Monday, April 23, 2012, Roger Kemp M.D.  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp M.D." <[url=javascript:;]viperdoc(at)mindspring.com[/url]>

  

 With Mogas do you add stabilizer to gas if you are going to have the A/C down for a while?

 Knowing some of the crap they put in Mogas can gum up the floats and plastic in auto carbs I would assume it would do the same to a CJ engine that was stood down for awhile.

 Doc 	




I never did. But then, I don't think I ever left a tank of gas for longer than a week either. And every so often, i.e. every couple of months, I would go on a cross country and have to burn avgas anyway. So I never had a problem. 

 



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

aerostar6

Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Amersham, UK

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: Re: MOGAS APPROVAL

Richard,



Have you any official russian opinion on using the new UL91 unleaded aviation fuel now becoming available in the UK?



It is basically 100LL with the TEL removed (or rather not added!), with an octane of 91, which according to my M14P handbook appears to satisfy the octane requirement. My question is whether the lack of TEL will lead to detonation problems at high power.



I know that mogas has been widely used outside of the UK. Aside from ethanol/seal problems, have there been any associated anecdotal detonation or valve guide wear problems?

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: MOGAS APPROVAL

Hi Mark,



It will be fine.



But, to be totally sure, I'd get a couple of cartons of a product called

Tetraboost, which is TEL [no idea how they are allowed to sell it, but it is

for the racing car world!!], and chuck about half a litre in per full tank.



Regards

Richard



Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is

+94 779 132 160.

--

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