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buddy.moman22(at)gmail.co
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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The information below is based on my recent experience. As is
appropriate for you, read, disregard, or use.
I'm the prior owner of a Yak-52 and a Yak-52TW. In both those
airplanes I used air tool oil in their pneumatic systems with no
apparent ill effects. The oil I used was Marvel Tool Oil which is
manufactured by---you guessed it---the makers of MMO. Considering
years of satisfactory experience, I confidently used that same Marvel
tool oil in my recently acquired CJ.
My airplane "seemed" to be operating quite normally until I returned
from a few days at Sun N Fun. When I landed at my home airport, I did
the usual shut down and secured the airplane--only to notice then that
the EMERGENCY air pressure was zero. It was not at zero at the time
of doing my landing checklist and had never leaked before. The
following day I began to pull apart the check valves, beginning with
the one that holds pressure in the emergency bottle. That seal was
quite deteriorated, apparently failing during the last leg of my
flight. The seal on the other side of that same tee was similarly
deteriorated. I next went to the second tee, located on the other
side of the firewall...same results---two more badly deteriorated seals.
A final check was made at the pop-off tee, and attached is a photo
showing those recently disassembled check valves. The black bits laid
out between the various parts are placed to indicate where those bits
were found. The black bits are what is left of the seals, which had
completely deteriorated. Bits of the seals were also found on the
"in" port of the water filter. One might think that, since both check
valve seals at the tee are exposed to engine oil via the snot bottle,
that may be the cause. Not so!
Subsequent tests on the seals revealed the following:
New seals are .4750" in diameter, and .067" in thickness. This was
verified by measurements also taken by Doug Sapp. A NEW seal placed
in air tool oil for several days swelled to .5300" diameter and .
0725"thickness...roughly 11% increase in Dia. and 8% in thickness.
Two more NEW seals that were in valves I had overhauled for inventory,
with a drop of tool oil on the piston, had grown in dimension almost
exactly the same as the seal I soaked in the oil. Obviously, any
exposure to this oil had profound effects on the rubber.
I chose to ignore posted advice by Doug which said something close
to..."If you don't know what your are doing, err on the side of a dry
system." I had ass/u/med what a Yak could digest, a CJ could also.
Bad assumption. If I ever am tempted to "lube the system" again, it
certainly won't be with MMO air tool oil...and I'll be doggone sure I
thoroughly test the compatibility of anything I consider sticking in
the system.
Fly safely,
Buddy
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Learning from the experience of each others
That's why this list is done for.
Thanks for taking the time for sharing this with us
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 2 mai 2012 à 05:42, Buddy Moman <buddy.moman22(at)gmail.com> a écrit :
| Quote: |
The information below is based on my recent experience. As is appropriate for you, read, disregard, or use.
I'm the prior owner of a Yak-52 and a Yak-52TW. In both those airplanes I used air tool oil in their pneumatic systems with no apparent ill effects. The oil I used was Marvel Tool Oil which is manufactured by---you guessed it---the makers of MMO. Considering years of satisfactory experience, I confidently used that same Marvel tool oil in my recently acquired CJ.
My airplane "seemed" to be operating quite normally until I returned from a few days at Sun N Fun. When I landed at my home airport, I did the usual shut down and secured the airplane--only to notice then that the EMERGENCY air pressure was zero. It was not at zero at the time of doing my landing checklist and had never leaked before. The following day I began to pull apart the check valves, beginning with the one that holds pressure in the emergency bottle. That seal was quite deteriorated, apparently failing during the last leg of my flight. The seal on the other side of that same tee was similarly deteriorated. I next went to the second tee, located on the other side of the firewall...same results---two more badly deteriorated seals.
A final check was made at the pop-off tee, and attached is a photo showing those recently disassembled check valves. The black bits laid out between the various parts are placed to indicate where those bits were found. The black bits are what is left of the seals, which had completely deteriorated. Bits of the seals were also found on the "in" port of the water filter. One might think that, since both check valve seals at the tee are exposed to engine oil via the snot bottle, that may be the cause. Not so!
Subsequent tests on the seals revealed the following:
New seals are .4750" in diameter, and .067" in thickness. This was verified by measurements also taken by Doug Sapp. A NEW seal placed in air tool oil for several days swelled to .5300" diameter and .0725"thickness...roughly 11% increase in Dia. and 8% in thickness. Two more NEW seals that were in valves I had overhauled for inventory, with a drop of tool oil on the piston, had grown in dimension almost exactly the same as the seal I soaked in the oil. Obviously, any exposure to this oil had profound effects on the rubber.
I chose to ignore posted advice by Doug which said something close to..."If you don't know what your are doing, err on the side of a dry system." I had ass/u/med what a Yak could digest, a CJ could also. Bad assumption. If I ever am tempted to "lube the system" again, it certainly won't be with MMO air tool oil...and I'll be doggone sure I thoroughly test the compatibility of anything I consider sticking in the system.
Fly safely,
Buddy
<photo.JPG>
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_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Thank you very much for your informative
posting and the pictures.
The same happened to me on several
occasions but with one difference, only
the after market rubber pads got dissolved
while the original seals are still intact.
The CJ maintenance manual states very clearly
that one should lubricate the pneumatic system
by injection specific oil into the system on a regular
schedule.
If anybody offers the original rubber pads for
the check valves, please contact me off list.
cheers
Elmar
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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I had exactly the same results with the chevron seals in my YAK-50's
landing gear actuators, which caused them to fall to pieces.
Fortunately, the emergency gear blow down worked. This event was posted
to the YAK-List about a decade ago. Since then, the idea of putting oil
into the air system has once again grown in popularity.
Good luck with that.
Mark Bitterlich
--
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
I had exactly the same results with the chevron seals in my YAK-50's
landing gear actuators, which caused them to fall to pieces.
Fortunately, the emergency gear blow down worked. This event was posted
to the YAK-List about a decade ago. Since then, the idea of putting oil
into the air system has once again grown in popularity.
|
As I recall, the Chinese maintenance docs recommend a mixture of glycerine and alcohol as the lubricant-of-choice for the pneumatic system. Someone here have the details?
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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About the check valve "pads":I don't know who Elmar is referring to as selling "after market" check valve rubber pads, but mine come from China. Elmar's post caused me to start wondering if my inventory of pads were in fact any different than those which are in a factory assembled check valve. This morning I disassembled a factory new check valve and found that the rubber material appears to be the same black material as the pads which I buy from my vendor in China. I do not have the expertise to correctly analyze the material to be 100% sure but the two examples do appear to be made of the same material. The outside dia is the same on both, the thickness is a bit more on the one which was removed from the factory new check valve, as it mics about .080.
Best,
Doug
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>
Thank you very much for your informative
posting and the pictures.
The same happened to me on several
occasions but with one difference, only
the after market rubber pads got dissolved
while the original seals are still intact.
The CJ maintenance manual states very clearly
that one should lubricate the pneumatic system
by injection specific oil into the system on a regular
schedule.
If anybody offers the original rubber pads for
the check valves, please contact me off list.
cheers
Elmar
====================================
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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So do the Russians, and only in SMALL quantities.
From: "brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)" <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Wednesday 2 May 2012 18:30
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
I had exactly the same results with the chevron seals in my YAK-50's
landing gear actuators, which caused them to fall to pieces.
Fortunately, the emergency gear blow down worked. This event was posted
to the YAK-List about a decade ago. Since then, the idea of putting oil
into the air system has once again grown in popularity.
|
As I recall, the Chinese maintenance docs recommend a mixture of glycerine and alcohol as the lubricant-of-choice for the pneumatic system. Someone here have the details?
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
| Quote: |
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
decades.
Glycerin/Alcohol
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
Two different topics.
Mark
--
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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No argument!
All of you own your own airplanes.
They are all Experimental.
Squirt any kind of oil you want to in the darn things.
But, I think it is less than bright to argue (if that is in fact what is
happening here) with someone who has taken a seal, dunked it into
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil and then watched it swell and start to come
apart.
But that's just me.
Mark
p.s. As a new YAK-50 owner back in 2000, I listened to people ON THIS
LIST telling me to put pneumatic air tool oil into the system. I did
exactly that. I have told everyone on this list that the chevron seals
then fell apart and I was lucky to get the gear down.
p.p.s. And since I have watched this discussion occur over and over
again in the last 12 years, let me please relate to anyone new here that
it ALWAYS comes down to the same thing. The subject goes from Pneumatic
Air Tool Oil, to Glycerin/Alcohol, and then to Caster Oil or #8
lubricating oil.
APPLES AND ORANGES FOLKS! APPLES AND ORANGES.
--
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Cliff.Coy
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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The Glycerin/Alcohol mixture is used for wet filtering of the oil and water which makes it past the cartridge filters. It's not a lubricant.
The Yaks are greased system, not an oiled system.
Every 5 years or 500hrs the should be dis-assembled, cleaned, and regreased with pnuematic system grease.
The Air tool oil trick has made the Yak shops a lot of money in actuator and check valve rebuilds as it turns into green slimy goo.... after it washes all of the grease out.
Just my $.02
Cliff
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
No argument!
All of you own your own airplanes.
They are all Experimental.
Squirt any kind of oil you want to in the darn things.
But, I think it is less than bright to argue (if that is in fact what is
happening here) with someone who has taken a seal, dunked it into
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil and then watched it swell and start to come
apart.
But that's just me.
Mark
p.s. As a new YAK-50 owner back in 2000, I listened to people ON THIS
LIST telling me to put pneumatic air tool oil into the system. I did
exactly that. I have told everyone on this list that the chevron seals
then fell apart and I was lucky to get the gear down.
p.p.s. And since I have watched this discussion occur over and over
again in the last 12 years, let me please relate to anyone new here that
it ALWAYS comes down to the same thing. The subject goes from Pneumatic
Air Tool Oil, to Glycerin/Alcohol, and then to Caster Oil or #8
lubricating oil.
APPLES AND ORANGES FOLKS! APPLES AND ORANGES.
--
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
decades.
Glycerin/Alcohol
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
Two different topics.
|
Uh, no. Here's how I read it:
"I lubricated my pneumatic system with air tool oil. It hosed up all my check valves by rotting out the rubber."
<Natural follow on -- > "Here is the stuff we are supposed to be using as recommended by the builders of the airplane -- glycerine and alcohol."
See? Obvious connection. And I bet there were several people on here who didn't realize that glycerine and alcohol is the proper lube for the pneumatic system. The thing I didn't remember was the ratio of glycerine to alcohol and the proper quantity to be injected into the system. I was hoping to jog someone's memory into providing the missing piece.
But I know that I have parroted the, "lube the pneumatic system with air-tool oil," party line in the past. Bad on me. But I did remember that there was an official alternative and thought I would remind people. Sorry. It was a case of me stepping out of character and trying to be helpful. I'll shut up now. 
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Cliff Coy <cliff.coy(at)gmail.com (cliff.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | The Glycerin/Alcohol mixture is used for wet filtering of the oil and water which makes it past the cartridge filters. It's not a lubricant.
The Yaks are greased system, not an oiled system.
Every 5 years or 500hrs the should be dis-assembled, cleaned, and regreased with pnuematic system grease.
The Air tool oil trick has made the Yak shops a lot of money in actuator and check valve rebuilds as it turns into green slimy goo.... after it washes all of the grease out.
Just my $.02
|
Thank you Cliff. I stand corrected. The right answer is: RTFM.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Having nothing else to think about while cleaning up broken glass (a rock thrown by my weed-wacker took out my sliding glass door ... to the tune of $500), the following thoughts went through my head:- Well, it seem that Marvel air-tool oil attacks rubber seals.
- Hmm, MATO looks and smells like MMO.
- I wonder if MATO has the same components as MMO or is even the same stuff as MMO?
- If so, I wonder if MMO has the same effect on diaphragms and seals in the oil and fuel system?
I don't know the answers to my two questions. But I do know that, as a result of the discussion here and my ruminations, I am going to be a bit more circumspect in my use of MMO in the future.
YMMV.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Brian,
At KFFZ, three of us have been using 1 part glycerine to 3 parts 95% alcohol for the CJ pneumatic system.
Several times per year I also put a 2 ml of 100 weight gear oil into the "air-in" side of my stainless steel main air and emergency air on-off valves.
Warren Hill
N464TW
On May 2, 2012, at 3:47 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
[quote]
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
decades.
Glycerin/Alcohol
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
Two different topics.
|
Uh, no. Here's how I read it:
"I lubricated my pneumatic system with air tool oil. It hosed up all my check valves by rotting out the rubber."
<Natural follow on -- > "Here is the stuff we are supposed to be using as recommended by the builders of the airplane -- glycerine and alcohol."
See? Obvious connection. And I bet there were several people on here who didn't realize that glycerine and alcohol is the proper lube for the pneumatic system. The thing I didn't remember was the ratio of glycerine to alcohol and the proper quantity to be injected into the system. I was hoping to jog someone's memory into providing the missing piece.
But I know that I have parroted the, "lube the pneumatic system with air-tool oil," party line in the past. Bad on me. But I did remember that there was an official alternative and thought I would remind people. Sorry. It was a case of me stepping out of character and trying to be helpful. I'll shut up now.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[b]
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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The Russians use a 50/50 (volume) mixture of pure glycerine (whatever that is) and medicinal ethanol (as pure as you can get it).
During Soviet times, they ordered higher quantities than necessary, allowing the mechanics to build up a secret stock of alcohol …
At least that's what a knowledgeable Russian told me …
Jan
From: "brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)" <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Thursday 3 May 2012 00:47
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
decades.
Glycerin/Alcohol
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
Two different topics.
|
Uh, no. Here's how I read it:
"I lubricated my pneumatic system with air tool oil. It hosed up all my check valves by rotting out the rubber."
<Natural follow on -- > "Here is the stuff we are supposed to be using as recommended by the builders of the airplane -- glycerine and alcohol."
See? Obvious connection. And I bet there were several people on here who didn't realize that glycerine and alcohol is the proper lube for the pneumatic system. The thing I didn't remember was the ratio of glycerine to alcohol and the proper quantity to be injected into the system. I was hoping to jog someone's memory into providing the missing piece.
But I know that I have parroted the, "lube the pneumatic system with air-tool oil," party line in the past. Bad on me. But I did remember that there was an official alternative and thought I would remind people. Sorry. It was a case of me stepping out of character and trying to be helpful. I'll shut up now.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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ronics.com/contribution
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Jan,
We've been using 95% ethanol (Everclear) purchased from a local liquor store. One advantage of this type of alcohol is that it has almost none of the common impurities found in distilled alcohol known as congeners: acetone, acetaldehyde, propanol, glycols and ethyl acetate. I guess the Russian mechanics found other advantages as well.
Perhaps Doug Sapp could offer a few comments on the benefits of adding a small amount of properly placed 90 to 100 weight oil based on his years of disassembling / examining pneumatic valves. Taking these valves apart is really the only way to know what's happening and Doug probably has more experience than anyone.
The corrosion that I've seen in the Chinese valves after replacing every one in my CJ was truly impressive. The inside of the main air on / off valve looked like chocolate pudding mixed with fine sand.
Warren
On May 2, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Jan Mevis wrote:
| Quote: | The Russians use a 50/50 (volume) mixture of pure glycerine (whatever that is) and medicinal ethanol (as pure as you can get it).
During Soviet times, they ordered higher quantities than necessary, allowing the mechanics to build up a secret stock of alcohol …
At least that's what a knowledgeable Russian told me …
Jan
From: "brian(at)lloyd.com" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday 3 May 2012 00:47
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
decades.
Glycerin/Alcohol
Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
Two different topics.
Uh, no. Here's how I read it:
"I lubricated my pneumatic system with air tool oil. It hosed up all my check valves by rotting out the rubber."
<Natural follow on -- > "Here is the stuff we are supposed to be using as recommended by the builders of the airplane -- glycerine and alcohol."
See? Obvious connection. And I bet there were several people on here who didn't realize that glycerine and alcohol is the proper lube for the pneumatic system. The thing I didn't remember was the ratio of glycerine to alcohol and the proper quantity to be injected into the system. I was hoping to jog someone's memory into providing the missing piece.
But I know that I have parroted the, "lube the pneumatic system with air-tool oil," party line in the past. Bad on me. But I did remember that there was an official alternative and thought I would remind people. Sorry. It was a case of me stepping out of character and trying to be helpful. I'll shut up now.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:37 am Post subject: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system |
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Thanks for the information shared, Warren.
I can testify (I witnessed it several times) that the Russian and
Lithuanian mechanics use a 50/50 mixture, but in very small quantities,
about 1 or 2 cubic centimeters, and they inject it with a needle into the
actuators. The medicinal ethanol I referred to is what we buy in a
drugstore (pharmacy). It's 95% ethanol, indeed. I usually get the
glycerine from the same pharmacy or drugstore, but some time ago, someone
on this list mentioned the existence of quite a few different types or
qualities of glycerine.
Here in Europe we have to overhaul these actuators on a regular basis (600
hours or 5 years, I think).
Jan
On 03/05/12 15:10, "Warren Hill" <k7wx(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Jan,
We've been using 95% ethanol (Everclear) purchased from a local liquor
store. One advantage of this type of alcohol is that it has almost none
of the common impurities found in distilled alcohol known as congeners:
acetone, acetaldehyde, propanol, glycols and ethyl acetate. I guess the
Russian mechanics found other advantages as well.
Perhaps Doug Sapp could offer a few comments on the benefits of adding a
small amount of properly placed 90 to 100 weight oil based on his years
of disassembling / examining pneumatic valves. Taking these valves apart
is really the only way to know what's happening and Doug probably has
more experience than anyone.
The corrosion that I've seen in the Chinese valves after replacing every
one in my CJ was truly impressive. The inside of the main air on / off
valve looked like chocolate pudding mixed with fine sand.
Warren
On May 2, 2012, at 11:33 PM, Jan Mevis wrote:
> The Russians use a 50/50 (volume) mixture of pure glycerine (whatever
>that is) and medicinal ethanol (as pure as you can get it).
> During Soviet times, they ordered higher quantities than necessary,
>allowing the mechanics to build up a secret stock of alcohol Š
>
> At least that's what a knowledgeable Russian told me Š
>
> Jan
>
> From: "brian(at)lloyd.com" <brian(at)lloyd.com>
> Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
> Date: Thursday 3 May 2012 00:47
> To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Effects of air tool oil in a CJ pneumatic system
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
>Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
>
>Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
>
> They do (have a procedure for putting in glycerin and alcohol).
>
> However, the subject at hand is injecting pneumatic air tool oil.
>
> Something that people on this list have recommended on and off for
> decades.
>
> Glycerin/Alcohol
>
> Pneumatic Air Tool Oil.
>
> Two different topics.
>
> Uh, no. Here's how I read it:
>
> "I lubricated my pneumatic system with air tool oil. It hosed up all my
>check valves by rotting out the rubber."
> <Natural follow on -- > "Here is the stuff we are supposed to be using
>as recommended by the builders of the airplane -- glycerine and alcohol."
>
> See? Obvious connection. And I bet there were several people on here
>who didn't realize that glycerine and alcohol is the proper lube for the
>pneumatic system. The thing I didn't remember was the ratio of glycerine
>to alcohol and the proper quantity to be injected into the system. I was
>hoping to jog someone's memory into providing the missing piece.
>
> But I know that I have parroted the, "lube the pneumatic system with
>air-tool oil," party line in the past. Bad on me. But I did remember
>that there was an official alternative and thought I would remind
>people. Sorry. It was a case of me stepping out of character and trying
>to be helpful. I'll shut up now.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian(at)lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> com
> ronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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