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jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Sixty  years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as a teenager in the  50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent my adult life as a  development engineer designing medical and laboratory instruments. You'd think I  could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's  a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])! I make a mess of the shield when I try to  remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it! 

  

 thanks  all, -john-

   [quote][b]

MNellis

Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Georgetown, TSX

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

You've been doing it so long, you've probably wore the tool out or     at the very least, dulled it.

     

     Mike

     [quote]                     Sixty years I've been doing this!             Built all my own ham radio gear as a teenager in the 50's,             got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent my             adult life as a development engineer designing medical and             laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a             multiconductor shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep,             but it's a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])!             I make a mess of the shield when I try to remove the Tefzel.             What is the secret trick to it! 

        

       thanks all, -john-

        	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

_________________
Mike Nellis
RV6 Fuselage

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Tool! A special tool!? I love tools! What  tool!

  

 -john-



 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike    Nellis

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:36 PM

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:    Secrets Techniques

   

You've been doing it so long, you've probably wore the tool out or    at the very least, dulled it.



Mike

    	  Quote: 	
		            Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear      as a teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university,      spent my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and      laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield      Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])! I make a mess of the shield when I try to      remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it! 

      

     thanks all, -john-

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	




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[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as a teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])! I make a mess of the shield when I try to remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it! 	


   The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the shield.



   I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor shielded

   that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips

   the outer jacket and probably 80% of the shield

   strands. Then I use a solder-sleeve

   to put a neat pigtail on the damaged shielding.

  

   There are normally no currents flowing in the

   shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good

   electrical connection with only one of of the

   strands, you're good to go. More than likely

   you can get good connection with 10% or more

   of the shield stranding. The neat thing

   is that the pigtail under heat shrink covers

   the carnage.



   I'll see if I can dig some of the stuff up

   and do a comic-book series of pictures on the

   process tomorrow.

  



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:



Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as 

a teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious 

university, spent my adult life as a development engineer designing 

medical and laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a 

multiconductor shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a 

bit(at)h! I make a mess of the shield when I try to remove the Tefzel. 

What is the secret trick to it!



   The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the shield.



   I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor shielded

   that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips

   the outer jacket and probably 80% of the shield

   strands. Then I use a solder-sleeve

   to put a neat pigtail on the damaged shielding.



   There are normally no currents flowing in the

   shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good

   electrical connection with only one of of the

   strands, you're good to go. More than likely

   you can get good connection with 10% or more

   of the shield stranding. The neat thing

   is that the pigtail under heat shrink covers

   the carnage.



   I'll see if I can dig some of the stuff up

   and do a comic-book series of pictures on the

   process.

   Bob . . .

rv6awingman(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

John and others,   A tip I learned from this list was to use a hot soldering iron.  As luck would have it, I had a wood burning knife in my tool kit which worked wonderfully on stripping tefzel wire.  Just run the sharp edge of the hot knife around the wire, melting the tefzel and pull off the end!   A bit of the pain for retrofitting under the panel but when building was a piece of cake as the top panel skin was not yet riveted in place. 



Marty RV-6A N826METime: 09:13:30 PM PST USFrom: "John Loram" <johnl(at)loram.org (johnl(at)loram.org)> Subject: Secrets TechniquesSixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as ateenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and laboratoryinstruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzelinsulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h! I make a mess of the shield when I try to remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it!thanks all, -john- 



 

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 07:53 AM 4/20/2012, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  John and others,   A tip I learned from this list was to use a hot soldering iron.  As luck would have it, I had a wood burning knife in my tool kit which worked wonderfully on stripping tefzel wire.  Just run the sharp edge of the hot knife around the wire, melting the tefzel and pull off the end!   A bit of the pain for retrofitting under the panel but when building was a piece of cake as the top panel skin was not yet riveted in place. 	


   The problem with hot strippers and multi-conductor

   shielded is that it is insufficient to simply

   part the outer jacket at the strip-length.

   When the jacket is molded over the braid

   which in turn is conformal to the spiral

   wires beneath, there is a great 'attachment'

   of the jacket with the braid.



   So even if you achieve a clean separation of

   the strip length of outer jacket, the

   unwanted insulation generally refuses to

   slide off. Here's a shot of a cleanly separated

   length of about 1" on the end of a shielded

   trio. No way is that stuff going to slide off.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

   Tefzel jackets are also very

   thin. PVC insulation is thick enough that

   'pushing' a strip-length off at the cut

   tends expand the inner diameter of the

   insulation lessening the grip on the wire.

   Tefzel is so thin that the same push fails

   the insulations column strength in compression

   and it simply bunches up . . . and rips the shield

   strands but still hasn't budged in the space

   beyond.



 [img]cid:.1[/img]



 

    My favorite process uses the generic Stripmaster

    with knife-edge dies . . .



  http://tinyurl.com/bol9x2n



    In this case, a 22AWG trio is nicely decapitated

    with the 14AWG die.



 [img]cid:.2[/img]



    The dies just barely cut the jacket but does get a

    'grip'.



    The resultant strip comes out looking like this:



 [img]cid:.3[/img]



 

    You wind the shield remnants tightly around the wires like

    this . . . keep the diameter small.



 [img]cid:.4[/img]



     If the wire is 'old' . . . the shield strands may

     be less than bright. Optionally, you can prepare the

     strands to accept a solder sleeve by 'tinning' them

     but shake off all excess solder.



 [img]cid:.5[/img]



    Then apply solder sleeve for a finished product that

    looks like this.



    Alternatively, you can go the po' boy's solder sleeve

    route with techniques adapted from these pages:



  http://tinyurl.com/87lea6o



  http://tinyurl.com/dgg2nb



    Now, if you've got a steady hand, a sharp knife and

    more patience than I, you can do a circle-cut and then

    slice the outer jacket down the side for an end result

    that can be processed like this:



  http://tinyurl.com/7ungs6c



    Until I get time to do a real html comic book and

    properly index this piece on aeroelectric.com,

    I've published a draft pdf at:



  http://tinyurl.com/6t56qrn



 



 

   Bob . . .

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enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

You can use a razor blade against a cutting board to get a good clean cut, then just pull off the insulation by hand.



Another method is to take a sharp pair of wire strippers and use the 'pipe cutter' method -- using a loose grip that still marks the insulation, turn the wire cutter around the cable until you have a clean, deep score. Pull off the insulation by hand as before.



That should leave you with a nearly intact shield with only 5-10 strands severed. As Bob mentioned, you don't need all of it, so I sometimes take half of it and hack it off with flush cutters before twisting the remainder into a wire for termination.



On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:12 PM, John Loram wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own ham radio gear as a

 teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious university, spent

 my adult life as a development engineer designing medical and laboratory

 instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor shield Tefzel

 insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h! I make a mess of the shield

 when I try to remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it! 

 

 thanks all, -john-

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years  trying not to melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of the  properties of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the past, but never  appreciate their purpose.

  

 onward and upward (someday), -john-



 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:39    PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:    Secrets Techniques

   

At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own      ham radio gear as a teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a prestigious      university, spent my adult life as a development engineer designing medical      and laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a multiconductor      shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])! I make a mess of the shield when I try to      remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it!    	


  The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the    shield.



  I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor shielded

     that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips

  the outer jacket and    probably 80% of the shield

  strands. Then I use a    solder-sleeve

  to put a neat pigtail on the damaged    shielding.

 

  There are normally no currents flowing in    the

  shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good

     electrical connection with only one of of the

  strands, you're good    to go. More than likely

  you can get good connection with 10% or    more

  of the shield stranding. The neat thing

  is that the    pigtail under heat shrink covers

  the carnage.



  I'll see    if I can dig some of the stuff up

  and do a comic-book series of    pictures on the

  process tomorrow.

 



   

  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 06:30 PM 4/29/2012, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years trying not to melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of the properties of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the past, but never appreciate their purpose. 	


   Yeah, they're kinda cool. I'm seeing some po' boy's solder

   sleeves showing up from suppliers on the net at attractive

   prices. I'm going to acquire some as see how well they

   work.



   I'm a bit surprised to find them offered to the commercial

   installation crowd. PVC or even the higher temperature PVC

   insulations are king. Not sure you can put a legacy RayChem

   solder sleeve on this wire. But these new kids on the block

   just might feature lower temperature solders (yes my children,

   there ARE other alloys that will do that melty-glue-thing) along

   with some lower temperature shrink and sealants. We'll have

   to see.



   In any case, I'm pleased that your dragons are at least

   "behind bars" if not completely dispatched . . .



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

I knew there must be a tool for this!!!   

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php

  

 And look at today's special price at the bottom of the  page!!!

  

      -john-

 can you believe it!

 I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel  insulated twisted pair (which I'm still looking for).

 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John    Loram

Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:31 PM

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:    Secrets Techniques

   

   Well, that works like a charm!... I've spent so many years    trying not to melt the insulation that I was not taking full advantage of the    properties of Tefzel. I've encountered solder sleeves in the past, but never    appreciate their purpose.

    

   onward and upward (someday), -john-



    	  Quote: 	
		                 From:      owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com      [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of      Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:39      PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:      Secrets Techniques

     

At 11:12 PM 4/19/2012, you wrote:

      	  Quote: 	
		  Sixty years I've been doing this! Built all my own        ham radio gear as a teenager in the 50's, got a EE degree from a        prestigious university, spent my adult life as a development engineer        designing medical and laboratory instruments. You'd think I could strip a        multiconductor shield Tefzel insulated cable in my sleep, but it's a bit(at)h ([email]bit(at)h[/email])! I make a mess of the shield when I try to        remove the Tefzel. What is the secret trick to it!      	


  The secret is go ahead and 'trash' the      shield.



  I have a bunch of 22AWG, 3-conductor      shielded

  that a common Stripmaster more-or-less strips

       the outer jacket and probably 80% of the shield

  strands. Then I      use a solder-sleeve

  to put a neat pigtail on the damaged      shielding.

 

  There are normally no currents flowing in      the

  shield. If your grounding pig-tail gets good

       electrical connection with only one of of the

  strands, you're good      to go. More than likely

  you can get good connection with 10% or      more

  of the shield stranding. The neat thing

  is that the      pigtail under heat shrink covers

  the carnage.



  I'll      see if I can dig some of the stuff up

  and do a comic-book series      of pictures on the

  process tomorrow.

 



     

  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

I knew there must be a tool for this!!!  

		 

		http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php

		 

		And look at today's special price at the bottom of the

page!!!

		Cheap!!!  I have 2 on order, so I will always have a backupâ˜º

		Roger



		Do not archive

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 07:30 AM 5/5/2012, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                   I knew there must be a tool for this!!!



                 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/twiststrip.php




	


   Hadn't seen this one. Your find reminds me that

   I haven't a clue as to how this task was handled

   at any of TC factories I worked at. I don't recall

   that I ever had cause to visit the wire-slingers

   for a close look at how they did things. All of

   my contact with their work product was after it

   got installed on an airplane.



   I've still got a badge for Hawker Beech but they

   shipped their wire fab shops to Mexico about 10

   years ago . . . I'll have to seek insight to those

   processes elsewhere but I'll see what I can learn.

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

 	  Quote: 	
		         -john-

 can you believe it!

 I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated twisted pair (which I'm still looking for).

 	


  I've got a few thousand feet of two

  conductor 22AWG shielded. I probably 

  ought to list it in my catalog. Will

  22AWG work for you and how much do you

  need?



 

 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Oh, please don't use any time better spent enjoying your grandson!



-john-



[quote] --

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted pair   for the RS-422 data lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I can't find it,  I'll just twist some 22 AWG, but would prefer to have the Tefzel casing for a  little added physical protection.

  

 Shielded I got already. but thank you,  -john-

  

 (I wonder if there's tools for stripting three and four  wire versions of the shielded twisted shielded  cable?)



 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 6:29    AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:    Secrets Techniques

   

    	  Quote: 	
		        -john-

can you believe      it!

I stumbled on it while looking for unshielded tefzel insulated      twisted pair (which I'm still looking for).

	


 I've got a few thousand feet of    two

 conductor 22AWG shielded. I probably 

 ought to list it    in my catalog. Will

 22AWG work for you and how much do    you

 need?

   

  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 01:26 PM 5/5/2012, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted pair  for the RS-422 data lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I can't find it, I'll just twist some 22 AWG, but would prefer to have the Tefzel casing for a little added physical protection.

  

 Shielded I got already. but thank you, -john- 	


  then use it. it will be fine . . .



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Hi Bob-



WRT techniques for dealing with tefzel, Basler up in OSH comes to mind.  When they do a turbine conversion, every wire, tube, hose, and threaded fastener comes out.  It's quite process, and they build up their own harnesses right there in their electrical loft.



Glen Matejcek

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

At 06:54 AM 5/6/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>



Hi Bob-



WRT techniques for dealing with tefzel, Basler up in OSH comes to 

mind.  When they do a turbine conversion, every wire, tube, hose, 

and threaded fastener comes out.  It's quite process, and they build 

up their own harnesses right there in their electrical loft.


	


   Sure. Tefzel has been the insulation of choice

   in GA aircraft (and most military) since the

   early 80's.



   I had the electrical-avionics group on the

   Gates-Piaggio GP180 program at Lear. We

   were considering Tefzel for that program

   and discovered it required an State

   Department technology export license if

   we were going to use it in airplanes

   sold outside the country.



   A good friend of mine was a tech-rep for

   Raychem who was offering an alternative

   to Tefzel in their "Spec 55" wire. I brought

   in some samples and the folks on the wire

   balcony were playing with it when it was

   announced that Lear had acquire the necessary

   export license. The changeover to Tefzel was

   pretty much a foregone conclusion in all

   the TC aircraft.



   Tefzel (or ETFE) is a cousin to Teflon

   (PTFE) and is widely used in many technologies

   besides wire. See:



http://tinyurl.com/24stb9e



http://tinyurl.com/yb462g6



   It's not a really big deal for stripping

   except when working with thin overlays

   that (1) buckle in column load when

   you try to push it off (2) a braided

   structure with a very strong grip

   on the insulation.



   Bob . . .

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: Secrets Techniques

Yeah, I know. Just being anal.... I'll use it, thanks,  -john-



 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 3:42    PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:    Secrets Techniques

   

At 01:26 PM 5/5/2012, you wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  I'm just looking for 15 ft of UNshielded twisted      pair  for the RS-422 data lines in a Dynon D10A installation. If I      can't find it, I'll just twist some 22 AWG, but would prefer to have the      Tefzel casing for a little added physical      protection.

 

Shielded I got already. but thank you,    -john- 	


 then use it. it will be fine . .    .



   

  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		  



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