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mgdimarco
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Kissimmee, FL
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 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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I asked an incomplete question in the other topic.
Who has or where can I find a set of performance charts for this aircraft/engine combination.
Sea level data for a couple of data points hardly does the job. The only other charts I found are TAS in kmph/altitude/RPM and a time to climb chart. There has to be more than that.
Endurance/Fuel Flow charts have to exist somewhere........right?
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_________________
Michael Di Marco
China Blue
mgdimarco@yahoo.com
407-608-3290 |
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:58 PM, mgdimarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com (mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "mgdimarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com (mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com)>
I asked an incomplete question in the other topic.
Who has or where can I find a set of performance charts for this aircraft/engine combination.
Sea level data for a couple of data points hardly does the job. The only other charts I found are TAS in kmph/altitude/RPM and a time to climb chart. There has to be more than that.
Endurance/Fuel Flow charts have to exist somewhere........right?
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Not unless you want to make your own.
Back when I had a flying CJ6 I had done the flight testing to get me a number of useful data points for cross-country cruise, time to climb, etc. Not sure I can find all that stuff now. But it isn't that difficult to do. Do you have a fuel-flow gauge in your plane? If not then you will need to take some long cross country flights to figure it out. But here is one you can use as I remember it off the top of my head:
11,500', standard day, full throttle, 1950 RPM, leaned to peak EGT (without surging) produced 130kts TAS at 11GPH. I used this power setting to make flights of over 450 nm with only light (10-15 kts) tailwinds.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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mgdimarco
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Kissimmee, FL
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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I guess I'll have to hunt for a digital engine analyzer. Right now I have a digital tach in one of the large holes (3.5"?). I'll bet I can use that space better.
Suggestions?
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Michael Di Marco
China Blue
mgdimarco@yahoo.com
407-608-3290 |
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:48 AM, mgdimarco <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com (mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "mgdimarco" <mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com (mgdimarco(at)yahoo.com)>
I guess I'll have to hunt for a digital engine analyzer. Right now I have a digital tach in one of the large holes (3.5"?). I'll bet I can use that space better.
Suggestions?
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Michael, I did it old-school. I did a lot of cross-country flying in mine. Every cross-country flight was a test flight. (Only aerobatic and formation flights were not used for data collection although I did find that fuel usage tended to go up when flying on someone's wing.) I would use various altitudes and RPM settings. I always flew with the throttle wide open, accepting whatever MAP I got. (Because the engines use mechanical superchargers, reduced RPM reduces maximum available MAP.) In flight, calculate TAS. Then land, fill up, and use your E6B to calculate fuel burn. (Calibrate your ASI first. I can provide you with a spreadsheet that will let you determine TAS and winds aloft from three GPS ground track and GS readings. You work backward to CAS from that.)
I did find that, by giving up about 10kts of TAS, I could often eliminate at least one fuel stop. That ends up saving a lot more time in a day than going 10 kts faster would make up for.
BUT, if you have a good fuel-flow gauge, you can get your data almost immediately and then collect several data points per flight rather than just one.
The problem with using the fuel specifics, i.e. g/hp*hr, is that they change with the operating point of the engine. Also hp output is not completely linear with changes in MAP and RPM. It is possible to model the hp output from MAP and RPM for a given mixture but it is just a lot easier to measure it and plot it against the actual performance of the airplane. So, you set the power to something you think reasonable, e.g. 2100 RPM, full-throttle, 9,500', mixture leaned for smooth running, and then see what you get. When you land you can find out what your actual fuel burn was. After all, knowing the hp output might be interesting but what most pilots really want to know is what the airplane will do at a given power setting.
Oh, be sure to be consistent in the loading of the airplane even moving the CJ can affect the performance results.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:35 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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I have the performance data on a Russian AI14RA. The Housai seems to be a
License built AI14RA as far as I can tell. If you would lie the data, I will
scan it and send it.
--
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Adrian Coop Cooper
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Vancouver, BC
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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Lets see if I did this right.
--
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| Description: |
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Download |
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AI-14_PERFORMANCE_CURVES.pdf |
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612.06 KB |
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806 Time(s) |
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:06 AM, George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Lets see if I did this right.
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Yes, they came through all right. Thank you. Are you sure these numbers are valid for the Huosai?
The problem with engine power output calculation/graphs is that they don't directly translate into actual performance of the aircraft. Propeller efficiency plays a big part in translating hp into thrust and that changes with RPM, density, TAS, etc. So knowing just how much HP the engine is making is less useful than it might first seem.
I don't know about the rest of you but I tend to fly using only a few different power settings at only a few different altitudes. It is pretty easy to check the performance at those settings and a few around it (you might change RPM) and then compare TAS and fuel consumption to see what works best. You will also get good real-world performance data for YOUR airplane. Book numbers are useful in order to figure out if your airplane is doing something grossly wrong but I can just about guarantee that they aren't the numbers for your airplane.
Of course, loading has an effect as well. It is useful to check performance at different standard loadings.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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My sources say that the Housai engine is identical to the RussianAI14RA. Probably originally license built.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:44 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:06 AM, George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Lets see if I did this right.
Yes, they came through all right. Thank you. Are you sure these numbers are valid for the Huosai?
The problem with engine power output calculation/graphs is that they don't directly translate into actual performance of the aircraft. Propeller efficiency plays a big part in translating hp into thrust and that changes with RPM, density, TAS, etc. So knowing just how much HP the engine is making is less useful than it might first seem.
I don't know about the rest of you but I tend to fly using only a few different power settings at only a few different altitudes. It is pretty easy to check the performance at those settings and a few around it (you might change RPM) and then compare TAS and fuel consumption to see what works best. You will also get good real-world performance data for YOUR airplane. Book numbers are useful in order to figure out if your airplane is doing something grossly wrong but I can just about guarantee that they aren't the numbers for your airplane.
Of course, loading has an effect as well. It is useful to check performance at different standard loadings.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA) | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Adrian Coop Cooper
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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George.
Thanks for the posting
Coop.
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:43 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:56 AM, George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
My sources say that the Housai engine is identical to the RussianAI14RA. Probably originally license built.
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OK, thanks.
Do we need to start the, "The CJ6A is/is-not a copy of the Yak," thread again? I haven't seen that for awhile. 
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
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The AI14RA is virtually identical to the Huosai 6. As far as I know the only difference is the carburettor adaptor. It is not identical to the Huosai 6A.
Walt
From: George Coy (george.coy(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:56 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a
My sources say that the Housai engine is identical to the RussianAI14RA. Probably originally license built.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:44 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:06 AM, George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Lets see if I did this right.
Yes, they came through all right. Thank you. Are you sure these numbers are valid for the Huosai?
The problem with engine power output calculation/graphs is that they don't directly translate into actual performance of the aircraft. Propeller efficiency plays a big part in translating hp into thrust and that changes with RPM, density, TAS, etc. So knowing just how much HP the engine is making is less useful than it might first seem.
I don't know about the rest of you but I tend to fly using only a few different power settings at only a few different altitudes. It is pretty easy to check the performance at those settings and a few around it (you might change RPM) and then compare TAS and fuel consumption to see what works best. You will also get good real-world performance data for YOUR airplane. Book numbers are useful in order to figure out if your airplane is doing something grossly wrong but I can just about guarantee that they aren't the numbers for your airplane.
Of course, loading has an effect as well. It is useful to check performance at different standard loadings.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA) | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
8
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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