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gord(at)thedampub.ca
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 Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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How about a nice gentle aileron roll? Or a little faster, full rudder and aileron seems to be the nature of the beast. Doing hammerheads I still need aileron to make it look right.
Bill
On May 15, 2012, at 10:20 AM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
[quote]
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
[b]
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gord(at)thedampub.ca
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem and yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive enough on the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is good, particularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands would be even better on the recovery.
Gord
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
| Quote: | | ===================================ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List===================================ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===================================http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
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[quote][b]
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ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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I find loading the wings first with stick pull then full (right) rudder with all the rest that Roger said. Inputs are aggressive but not jerking. In roll aileron accelerates rotation. As will almost everything in the 52 as soon as you stop or check the input the maneuver stops – therefore, do not anticipate going neutral – force yourself to wait until wings are level (or whatever you are looking for) before changing control input.
Splinter
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corp.
215.914.0370
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Snap rolls Yak 50
Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem and yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive enough on the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is good, particularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands would be even better on the recovery.
Gord
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
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[quote][b]
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nigel(at)yakdisplay.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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’52 ones work for me by:
Use TWO hands…..
Speed 190clicks
Accelerated stall with brief FULL CENTRAL back stick (then neutral to avoid excessive drag)
Immediately followed by FULL rudder and FULL in flick aileron (maintaining neutral elevator – that’s the hard bit….)
Recovery pretty instantaneous with aileron central, rudder central and slight forward stick all at the same time.
Nigel
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: 15 May 2012 19:03
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Snap rolls Yak 50
Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem and yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive enough on the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is good, particularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands would be even better on the recovery.
Gord
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
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[quote][b]
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gord(at)thedampub.ca
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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OK ………… That makes sense………… to unload the elevator to conserve energy and yes a conscious effort to keep it neutral with full rudder and aileron. That seems like what I am seeing on the snap roll on t/o video http://www.yakuk.com/video/flickme.wmv
Thank you
Gord
[quote] [b]
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drc(at)wscare.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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I would echo the other comments here. My experience is in 52 and coached by Sergei.
Snaps
I use 120-140 mph (190-220kph) then firm neutral back stick. Immediate right rudder. When rotation starts stick to the right toe. (release back preassure and pro-spin aileron really speeds the rotation.) Then recovery.
For the lomcevak.
Be very comfortable with inverted spins and recovery.
Start at least 4000 AGL for practice. Lower dive for airspeed acceptable.
Enter 60 degree pitch up at 220 mph (350kph) then roll inverted. Full left rudder followed with immediate full forward right stick and hold inputs. Hang on. As energy disipates the plane will wind up forced into an inverted spin if the control inputs are held. SO as the energy disipates, close throttle, recover with opposite rudder and stick back / neutral as the nose comes down and the airspeed builds.
Remeber the above is for 52. I never did lomcevaks in the 55 I owned. I am super conservative and only do what I know how to do. I feel comfortable with the above after doing countless with Sergei in the back seat. I did not have this opportunity obviously with the 55, so I was more cautious.
Dr. Herb Coussons, MD
drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)
2641 Development Drive
Green Bay, WI 54311
Cell 920-639-8434
Work 920-338-6868
Fax 920-338-6869
On May 15, 2012, at 11:20 AM, gord wrote:
| Quote: | Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock’s Yak 50 and am having some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I’ve watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can’t see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
| Quote: |
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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gord(at)thedampub.ca
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Right toe……… I like that and it makes sense. I was limiting the speed to 200 kph to keep g load to 5.
Do you recall what rolling g you get at 220?
Thank you for the Lomcevak entry. I will give it a go tomorrow.
Gord
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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[b]
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drc(at)wscare.com
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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One the wing stalls g load is minimal. Not sure the g load to induce stall. Will fly Thursday and reply.
Sent from DrC on the iPhone
On May 15, 2012, at 5:56 PM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca (gord(at)thedampub.ca)> wrote:
[quote]
Right toe……… I like that and it makes sense. I was limiting the speed to 200 kph to keep g load to 5.
Do you recall what rolling g you get at 220?
Thank you for the Lomcevak entry. I will give it a go tomorrow.
Gord
[b]
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Guys, just so you know who you are dealing with....google Gordon Price Canadian Aerobatics, or World Aerobatic Championships. He may be 70 but still out flies most guys half his age....
Good to see your having fun with #001, Gord!
Happy Flying,
Barry
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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com |
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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Barry,
Thanks for the bio note on Gord. I was happy to pass along to him my bit about what worked for me in snapping a 52....Just as I was happy, using my 52, to check you out in inverted spins a few years back....passing along what worked for me. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.
Glad the "first 50" has gone to someone who will use it, enjoy it, and fly the pants off it!
Roger___________________________________________________
On May 15, 2012, at 8:49 PM, barryhancock wrote:
| Quote: |
Guys, just so you know who you are dealing with....google Gordon Price Canadian Aerobatics, or World Aerobatic Championships. He may be 70 but still out flies most guys half his age....
Good to see your having fun with #001, Gord!
Happy Flying,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(877) 869-6458
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373135#373135
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gord(at)thedampub.ca
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:47 am Post subject: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
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Thanks for the kind words Barry. It has been 24 years since I flew
competitions and air shows. That makes me ....very rusty.... so I will take
all the help I can get. Thank you all for the input. I am on my way to the
airport to see if I can sort this out and then clean up the oily mess I
made. Gord
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