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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Sorry, but bored minds are inquisitive. Landings have always been less than satisfactory for me. I have made a lot of them, but everyone Else's seem to be better. Perhaps there is some poor smuck out there that lands worse than me, but I haven't met him. John on one of his trips out here pointed out that the slack in my stick was making it harder to look like someone smart. We tightened that up and they improved a lot. Then we tightened the cables on the horizontal stab, and they got better still.
I have done a lot of landings this spring in an attempt to improve things and I noticed that even though I pulled the stick back as far as my various protuberances would allow, I was still sinking enough that I could not keep it in the air as long as I thought that I still had flying airspeed. My thoughts were that I was still above stall when the wheels touched down. My stall has been 36 MPH or something real close to that. I neglected to do a stall today for some reason.
From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable, and the VG's on the idea that I still had elevator authority right through to stall.
As most of you will remember from my vids there are a lot of places that I like to go that have less than a paved runway. So I decided that I would go the VG route. I decided on 6 total, three on each side. I know that there are some who ascribe to more is better, but I think that only applies to fattening and sin full things. Anyway yesterday I "Shoe Goo'ed" them on.
The weather this week is supposed to be "breezy" but it warmed up to less than icing conditions and the wind was calm, so I rolled her out and warmed her up. The first thing that I noticed was that she took off by herself, at 40 MPH and the climb at 45 was seriously steeper than I am used to. By the time I hit the end of the runway I was about 250 feet up and before I could turn to land, hitting 600 feet. I had leveled out quite a bit, because even though my butt was telling me that there was no problem, my mind was telling me that my butt was lying through its shorts.
I held it on 50 MPH on the approach and cut the throttle to idle as is my normal procedure. only this time I kept my eye on the ASI. I was able to hold it off the ground until the ASI passed through 30 MPH. Unfortunately I was not able to do test with and without on the same day, so this would not stand up to a test by Jack H, but I am fairly confident that I was able to hold it off until the wing quit flying, and I had never been able to do that before. I am fairly confident that my previous airspeed without, was in the 40 MPH range. If I can go over that rock at 10 MPH less airspeed, it is a good thing.
Quoting Beauford " Worth what ye paid for it"
Larry
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... [quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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I thought of Duct tape, but While I have great luck sticking things with it, it always seems to leave a mess. I guess I will have to get some "book binding tape", unless someone has a better idea.
Larry
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:20 PM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... | Quote: |
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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I was thinking about using it. Overlap sticky side to sticky side, so it's about 3" wide. Then you can do the "over and under" application. Also, short lengths- hinge to hinge, and get a helper because of the three handed juggling act with any tape. I was just waiting for somebody to mention it.
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gad, more VG's!
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, May 19, 2012, 2:53 PM
I thought of Duct tape, but While I have great luck sticking things with it, it always seems to leave a mess. I guess I will have to get some "book binding tape", unless someone has a better idea.
Larry
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:20 PM, william sullivan <[url=/mc/compose?to=williamtsullivan(at)att.net]williamtsullivan(at)att.net[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <[url=/mc/compose?to=lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com]lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... | Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| Quote: | httttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=============
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[quote][b]
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Mike Welch
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Bill,
As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. But long term I'd think it won't work so well.
It will eventually leave a glue residue that is true nightmare to clean up, plus, if you leave it on long
enough, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to delaminate.
If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them yet, I'd use some of that PolyFiber
fabric. I found if you use Polybrush, you can build up a fairly study fabric. Two layers of fabric
when glued together with Polybrush) can be sort turned into one "more heavy -duty" layer. This
double-thick fabric is what you can cut down into 2" wide strips, and then use your regular PolyFiber
tape to glue it on. Once you get your PolyFiber gap seals all glued on, tape off the area and spray the
unpainted parts with your PolyTone paint.
At least, that's what I'd do. Oh yeah, don't forget to preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distorting
due sitting in the hot sun.
Mike Welch
On May 19, 2012, at 1:20 PM, william sullivan wrote:
[quote] Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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Mike Welch
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Oops! Typo. I found you can build up some "sturdy" fabric. I missed the R.
M
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Mike- I was wondering if a top coat of the Stits paint would protect the duct tape. Duct tape out in the open does deteriorate pretty quickly. My FS won't be in the air for quite a while, so maybe I'll try it on something like the old plastic bench in my back yard. i get plenty of sun back there. My curiosity is getting to me, and the bench is getting ready for the dump anyway.
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gad, more VG's!
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, May 19, 2012, 3:07 PM
Bill,
As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. But long term I'd think it won't work so well.
It will eventually leave a glue residue that is true nightmare to clean up, plus, if you leave it on long
enough, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to delaminate.
If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them yet, I'd use some of that PolyFiber
fabric. I found if you use Polybrush, you can build up a fairly study fabric. Two layers of fabric
when glued together with Polybrush) can be sort turned into one "more heavy -duty" layer. This
double-thick fabric is what you can cut down into 2" wide strips, and then use your regular PolyFiber
tape to glue it on. Once you get your PolyFiber gap seals all glued on, tape off the area and spray the
unpainted parts with your PolyTone paint.
At least, that's what I'd do. Oh yeah, don't forget to preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distorting
due sitting in the hot sun.
Mike Welch
On May 19, 2012, at 1:20 PM, william sullivan wrote:
| Quote: | Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <[url=/mc/compose?to=lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com]lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable... | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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Bill Long
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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Find some thick clear 2 inch tape and overlap a little more than the gap to fill start on the top and then under for the back it will last years.
Bill Long
UL002 FireFly
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, May 19, 2012 2:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: Gad, more VG's!
Larry- Just a thought, but what about duct tape for the gap seal? I think it's vinyl covered, so it should be compatible with the Stits paint. Anybody know how it would work? I have to do all of mine, and everybody seems to have a favorite.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sat, 5/19/12, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> wrote:From the list it was obvious that there was two things that I could do to possibly improve things. Gap seal on the stab. and VG's. I had resisted the seal because I had not gotten off my butt to get anything suitable...
[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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OK, you two got me to thinking and I remembered that I had some Scotch brand two inch rubber type tape that I have been using for a leading edge tape. It has been on the plane for at least 6 years and shows no sign of deteriation at all. I bought it from Aircraft Spruce for that purpose. So now I am VGed and Sealed.
Larry
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Bill,
As an emergency, I'd imagine duct tape would work just fine. But long term I'd think it won't work so well.
It will eventually leave a glue residue that is true nightmare to clean up, plus, if you leave it on long
enough, the whole mess gets sun-baked and the duct tape starts to delaminate.
If I were to add gap seals, and I will, I just haven't gotten to them yet, I'd use some of that PolyFiber
fabric.
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: Gad, more VG's! |
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At least, that's what I'd do. Oh yeah, don't forget to
preshrink the 2" strips....we don't want them distorting
due sitting in the hot sun.
Mike Welch
Mike W/Kolbers:
Get a Kolb Manual for any model Kolb from the old Kolb
Aircraft. If you don't have one, I'll scan mine and send it
to you when I get home next week.
Homer Kolb recommended the use of polyester dacron trim tape
for gap seals. I can't remember 2 or 3 inch tape. Tape is
cemented to the trailing edge of the wing and the leading
edge of the aileron and flap with Polytak. Then the tape is
processed with Polybrush and Polyspray. The finish tape is
not heat shrunk. The sun will not shrink or loosen
polyester dacron fabric finishing tape.
If done according to instructions the gap seal will last a
very long time. The gap seal on my MKIII is over 20 years
old and has more than 3,200 flight hours on it.
Book binding tape is a temporary fix.
I find it easier to fit and predrill the hinge rivet lines
before covering the wings and applying the gap seal. After
painting is finished, then the hinges are permanently
installed.
john h
mkIII
Sevierville, Tennessee
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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