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AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8
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MikeDunlop

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the AEC9001 Schottky diode as per diagram.  On testing the installation at this point with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading from the bus terminals:



DC PWR       - Off

E-Bus        - Off

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus -  0v

E-bus        -  0v



DC PWR       - On

E-Bus        - Off

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus - 12v

E-bus        - 12v



DC PWR       - On

E-Bus        - On

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus - 12v

E-bus        - 12v



DC PWR       - Off

E-Bus        - On

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus -  8v

E-bus        - 12v

Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test, I would have thought it would have been 0V?



The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed exactly as per instructions.



MikeD (U.K.)

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Hi Mike,

It's likely that the Meter you are using has a high Impedance and therefore

you can see a Voltage across the diode

When it's reverse Biased. If the Diode is working correctly it will not let

any current more than few Micro amps flow in the reverse

Direction. Try Using a Using a Diode Checker without applying a voltage to

the Diode. Alternatively Turn the E-Buss on and then

Apply a load to the Main Buss (light Bulb) and see what Voltage you read

then on the Main Buss.



Cheers



John MacCallum

VH-DUU

Rv 10 41016



--

henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Mike,

The 8V is due to leakage current through the reverse biased Schottky diode.

Let's assume that your voltmeter has an internal resistance of 10 MOhms, which is a fairly high load resistance intended to not affect normal measurements.  However, in this case, it is forming a two resistor voltage divider network with the high resistance of the reverse biased diode.  Assuming your voltmeter is indeed 10 MOhms, you can determine what the reverse bias resistnace is by doing the math:

     1. You know that the voltage across the 10 MOhms of your voltmeter is 8V; therefore, the current through it is E/R = 8/10M = 0.8 uA

     2. This  current is a series current through both the Schottky diode and the voltmeter

     3. Since the diode is dropping 4V, its reverse biased resistance is E/I = 4V/0.8 uA = 5 MOhms

It's as simple as that.  The total resistance is 15 MOhms, and the diode's resistance is 5 MOhms; therefore, it drops 1/3 of the voltage.  If you really want to prove what I said, get yourself another meter that has a much higher internal resistance (x10) and see what voltage you measure.  It will go toward 12V.

Another way to prove this is to do just the opposite.  Put a real world load on the E-bus.  Its relatively low internal resistance will cause most or all of the voltage to appear across the diode; therefore, the E-bus will very close to 0V.

Henador  Titzoff



        From: MikeDunlop <mdunlop001(at)aol.com>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:58 PM

 Subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

  

 

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "MikeDunlop" <mdunlop001(at)aol.com (mdunlop001(at)aol.com)>



I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the AEC9001 Schottky diode as per diagram.  On testing the installation at this point with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading from the bus terminals:



DC PWR       - Off

E-Bus        - Off

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus -  0v

E-bus        -  0v



DC PWR       - On

E-Bus        - Off

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus - 12v

E-bus        - 12v



DC PWR       - On

E-Bus        - On

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus - 12v

E-bus        - 12v



DC PWR        - Off

E-Bus        - On

Main Bat Bus - 12v

Main Pwr Bus -  8v

E-bus        - 12v

Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test?



The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed exactly as per instructions.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#3=          - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -avigator?AeroElectric-List"  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List========================

MikeDunlop

Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Many thanks for the quick replies.  I will check as per your suggestions and also make sure my test equipment and knowledge of electrics are suitable for the job at hand.   I'm sure that throughout this installation, both are going to be needed.



MikeD (U.K.)

JohnInReno

Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Your battery should be putting out more than 12 volts. On my 

installation, I see about .2 to .3 volt difference between the main 

power switch and the alternate feed switch due to the draw of the 

contactor. In other words, if you see 12v on the battery bus and 12v on 

the power bus then I would suspect your voltmeter is not accurate.



john



On 5/19/2012 1:58 PM, MikeDunlop wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm half way through a new installation of Z-13/8 and have just installed the AEC9001 Schottky diode as per diagram.  On testing the installation at this point with NO electrical devices connected I'm getting the following voltage reading from the bus terminals:



 DC PWR       - Off

 E-Bus        - Off

 Main Bat Bus - 12v

 Main Pwr Bus -  0v

 E-bus        -  0v



 DC PWR       - On

 E-Bus        - Off

 Main Bat Bus - 12v

 Main Pwr Bus - 12v

 E-bus        - 12v



 DC PWR       - On

 E-Bus        - On

 Main Bat Bus - 12v

 Main Pwr Bus - 12v

 E-bus        - 12v



 DC PWR       - Off

 E-Bus        - On

 Main Bat Bus - 12v

 Main Pwr Bus -  8v

 E-bus        - 12v

 Question: Why am I getting 8v on Main Pwr Bus on the last test?



 The AEC90001 Schottky Diode is new from AeroElectric and has been installed exactly as per instructions.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373361#373361

_________________
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

As others have mentioned, the problem is in how you use your tools...like the voltmeter.



Imagine that you have a voltmeter that is infinitely sensitive (infinite impedance). Now it will measure the battery voltage even thru an open switch. In fact, it will measure 500 volts between your belt buckle and your shoe laces. And the top of your hat will be 1000 volts higher than the soles of your New Balance sneakers. You can actually extract some tiny amount of power this way. 



So meter impedance is not a lack of quality in a meter, it is a necessary and useful characteristic of the measuring device. And in a solid state circuit (like a diode), there will almost always be a voltage on the output that is similar to the input voltage even when the circuit is off. And in fact the "leakage voltage" will not be able to light even the tiniest LED...so ignore it.



I once designed a Cmos circuit where somebody (okay, me...) forgot to add the power trace to the IC. Years later, an inquisitive technician, tracing an unrelated fault discovered it, but all the shipped product had worked just fine.



So just don't make voltage measurements like this. 



See attached for a better way.

Diode test.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Diode test.pdf

Filesize:

79.23 KB

Downloaded:

534 Time(s)

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Eric,

This sounds like the possible explanation for a problem that I solved but

never understood.  Still don't... even if this is the explanation!  :>)



20 years ago, I had a sprinkler zone that would not come on.  I checked

voltage at the solenoid and found 12V, so I assumed that the solenoid was

bad.  I replaced it...still didn't work!  I then checked the original

solenoid at the control box.  It worked!  Hmmmm!



I ran new wires out to the valve from the controller box hooked up the

original solenoid and it worked!  Problem solved.



I have never understood how I could have 12V at the solenoid and it would

not work.  Is this an explanation and if so how??



Bill B



--

Bob McC

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Toronto, ON

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Broken wire, bit of moisture, easily enough to "power" the meter. (Read the

voltage)

No direct connection to actually pass current to power the relatively large

solenoid power requirements.



Bob McC



[quote] --

_________________
Bob McC
Falco #908
(just starting)

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Bill,



12Volts at the relay could/did exist - but if you did NOT have an adequate 

return path (ground) for CURRENT to flow then no current would flow through 

the relay, no power to close the relay would develop and nothing would 

happen.  You must have a path for current flow.  So once you took the relay 

back and hooked it up to a good ground - it worked.



 Voltage is similar to water pressure - you can have 12PSI of water pressure 

on one side of a water valve leading to a water turbine - but if you do not 

open the valve (provide a path for water flow) then the 12PSI does nothing 

for you, no work is produced and the turbine never spins(relay never 

closes).



When I was just getting interested in electronics (around 10 years old), I 

would go to the local dump and haul out old discarded radios and cut out the 

components.  I would take a resistor and measure the resistance with an ohm 

meter and sure enough the resistance measure was close(more or less) to the 

color code on the resistor - so ah, I thought another good one.



Then I would put voltage (12 volts) to one end of the resistor and then 

measure the  voltage at the other end and much to my puzzlement and dismay - 

no voltage was dropped, it still read 12 volts. So the resistor must have 

somehow gone bad - but, measured the resistance again and it was on the 

money.



Later the light bulb came on - the impedance of the voltmeter was too high 

to draw any significant current through the resistor, therefore there was 

only a very small (unnoticable to me) voltage drop across the resistor.  Of 

course once I grounded one end of the resistor then max current would flow 

through it and all 12 volts would be dropped across the resistor.  Without 

current flow through a resistor (V=I*R) there is no voltage dropped across 

it and the voltage will measure the same on both ends of the resistor.  In 

other words if I (current) = 0 then Voltage Drop V = 0 * R = 0 or no voltage 

drop.



Ed

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>

Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:50 AM

To: <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8



[quote] 

 <bbradburry(at)bellsouth.net>



 Eric,

 This sounds like the possible explanation for a problem that I solved but

 never understood.  Still don't... even if this is the explanation!  :>)



 20 years ago, I had a sprinkler zone that would not come on.  I checked

 voltage at the solenoid and found 12V, so I assumed that the solenoid was

 bad.  I replaced it...still didn't work!  I then checked the original

 solenoid at the control box.  It worked!  Hmmmm!



 I ran new wires out to the valve from the controller box hooked up the

 original solenoid and it worked!  Problem solved.



 I have never understood how I could have 12V at the solenoid and it would

 not work.  Is this an explanation and if so how??



 Bill B



 --

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Bill B.:



Hard to know. But the lesson is that a voltmeter should never, and I mean NEVER be used as a makeshift continuity tester. A 12V indicator lamp is a much better tool.



I used to know an 85-year old electrician nicknamed Sparky (really) who told me that in the early days they never used meters, he would just put his two fingers across the line (even 440V!). But there was a technique to it--one finger on the hot and one on the ground or neutral AT THE SAME INSTANT--And don't touch anything else. Same when removing them. It is easy to do this with 12V, but you have to lick your fingers and press hard. Every kid knows you can test a 9V battery on your tongue and a 1.5V cell can be tested UNDER the tongue.

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

So you guys now know why, as an electrician, I am a middling carpenter!



Bill B



--

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

I really have to ask.  Are you making the claim that in all the years 

"Sparky" used his fingers, He NEVER had his fingertips touch at 

different times?  Assuming 60Hz, a difference in contact times of the 

the fingertips of 1/30 of a second would allow more than enough time for 

any affect that was going to take place between 1st and 2nd finger contact.



Never more than 1/30 of a second, ever.



I'm skeptical.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine



On 05/20/2012 10:38 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Jones"<emjones(at)charter.net>



 Bill B.:



 Hard to know. But the lesson is that a voltmeter should never, and I

 mean NEVER be used as a makeshift continuity tester. A 12V indicator

 lamp is a much better tool.



 I used to know an 85-year old electrician nicknamed Sparky (really)

 who told me that in the early days they never used meters, he would

 just put his two fingers across the line (even 440V!). But there was

 a technique to it--one finger on the hot and one on the ground or

 neutral AT THE SAME INSTANT--And don't touch anything else. Same when

 removing them. It is easy to do this with 12V, but you have to lick

 your fingers and press hard. Every kid knows you can test a 9V

 battery on your tongue and a 1.5V cell can be tested UNDER the

 tongue.



 -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive

 Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373400#373400

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Sparky

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm skeptical.   Raymond Julian 	




Raymond. It is important to note that the electrical current flowed only up one finger and down the adjacent finger...never through the body, the  heart or any bundle of nerves. So it couldn't kill him. 



Sparky also had tough hands that had done hard work for decades....I didn't doubt him at all. There are lots of seemingly-dangerous electrical tricks...if you know what you're doing. At 440V and 25k ohm dry skin, that's only 18 milliamps RMS. It shouldn't be a problem at all.



How about we both try it and report back. YOU FIRST!

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

I have no doubt he did it.  I have done it to 1500v neon lighting 

transformers to see it they were hot.



This does not address the "explanation" of how he did it.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I used to know an 85-year old electrician nicknamed Sparky (really)

 who told me that in the early days they never used meters, he would

 just put his two fingers across the line (even 440V!). But there was

 a technique to it--one finger on the hot and one on the ground or

 neutral AT THE SAME INSTANT--And don't touch anything else. Same when

 removing them.


	


Your claim that there is a technique to it,



-----"AT THE SAME INSTANT"---------



is baseless, based on your explanation below.  Which one is it????



Timing of the contact of the fingers has NOTHING to do with it and 

retelling stories with no basis in fact serves no purpose except to 

perpetuate falsehoods and whatever dangers are associated with believing 

them.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine



On 05/22/2012 12:30 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Jones"<emjones(at)charter.net>

> I'm skeptical.   Raymond Julian

 Raymond. It is important to note that the electrical current flowed

 only up one finger and down the adjacent finger...never through the

 body, the  heart or any bundle of nerves. So it couldn't kill him.



 Sparky also had tough hands that had done hard work for decades....I

 didn't doubt him at all. There are lots of seemingly-dangerous

 electrical tricks...if you know what you're doing. At 440V and 25k

 ohm dry skin, that's only 18 milliamps RMS. It shouldn't be a problem

 at all.



 How about we both try it and report back. YOU FIRST!



 -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive

 Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373577#373577

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: Re: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

 	  Quote: 	
		  Timing of the contact of the fingers has NOTHING to do with it and 

retelling stories with no basis in fact serves no purpose except to 

perpetuate falsehoods and whatever dangers are associated with believing them. 



Raymond Julian 	




Man, Chill.



That's what he said and I had no reason to disbelieve him. But yes, the two finger thing might not be useful. 



Chill!!

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

This does not address the "explanation" of how he did it.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I used to know an 85-year old electrician nicknamed Sparky (really)

 who told me that in the early days they never used meters, he would

 just put his two fingers across the line (even 440V!). But there was

 a technique to it--one finger on the hot and one on the ground or

 neutral AT THE SAME INSTANT--And don't touch anything else. Same when

 removing them.


	


Your claim that there is a technique to it,



	

The part that is not well explained is that you must not be in contact with

any ground.  Now you can touch the hot wire and not be shocked, because

there is not a completed circuit through your body.  So, If you are not

grounded it makes no difference if you touch both wires at the same time or

not.  There is only a completed circuit when you touch both wires, and the

completed circuit is from one finger to the other.  Hope this muddies the

waters even more.



Don't do this!!  It's a stupid practice!!!



Roger



Do Not Archive

jason(at)jasonbeaver.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

When I first graduated from high school, I worked construction for one summer with an electrician who used the two finger trick to see if wires were hot.  As long as no other portion of your body was grounded, you wouldn't get hurt.  I spent most of the summer using this technique to see if wires were hot and learned to tell the difference between 110V and 220V feeds.      

           

         At one point during the summer, I was helping him revive an old elevator from the late 1800s     .  At one point he touched two wires to see if they were hot and jerked his hand back in pain.  He dug his multimeter out from the bottom of his toolbox and measure 600V DC on the wires!          

                              

         jason          

   

                   On May 22, 2012 at 1:30 PM "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> wrote:            > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net>        >        >        > > I'm skeptical.   Raymond Julian        >        >        > Raymond. It is important to note that the electrical current flowed only up one finger and down the adjacent finger...never through the body, the  heart or any bundle of nerves. So it couldn't kill him.        >        > Sparky also had tough hands that had done hard work for decades....I didn't doubt him at all. There are lots of seemingly-dangerous electrical tricks...if you know what you're doing. At 440V and 25k ohm dry skin, that's only 18 milliamps RMS. It shouldn't be a problem at all.        >        > How about we both try it and report back. YOU FIRST!        >        > --------        > Eric M. Jones        > www.PerihelionDesign.com        > 113 Brentwood Drive        > Southbridge, MA 01550        > (508) 764-2072        > emjones(at)charter.net        >        >        >        >        > Read this topic online here:        >        > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373577#373577        >        >        >        >        >        >        >                                                                                            >        >        >   

    [quote][b]

Bob McC

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Toronto, ON

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Eric is correct, can be done under the correct conditions. Not necessarily

good idea, but possible.



I found myself accidentally touching a live 600V 60 Hz wire once. Gets your

attention real quick, but the connection was between a finger and the back

of the same hand which was touching the junction box containing the live

wire, no other ground involved. Very lucky but smarter! (In Canada most 3

phase industrial is 600 not 440 like the US)

I'd turned off, and checked as dead, the main service to the building but

this particular junction box was unfortunately back-fed from another

building's service. I now check the individual circuits every time and not

assume because the building is "dead" that every circuit also is.



Another anecdotal example I personally witnessed was a mechanic, years ago,

who tested the ignition wires on a running V8 auto engine to find a misfire

by unplugging the wire from the spark plug, inserting a screwdriver, which

he then held in his hand while resting against the block. He pronounced

"that ones good" then proceeded to go to the next plug and so on until

finally "there's the bad one". Impressed me no end, but not something I'm

about to try myself.



Do not archive



Bob McC



[quote] --

_________________
Bob McC
Falco #908
(just starting)

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

Chill..... that's your best response.



Nuts.



I was hoping to sort out fact from fiction.



Never mind.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine



On 05/22/2012 01:30 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

> Timing of the contact of the fingers has NOTHING to do with it and

> retelling stories with no basis in fact serves no purpose except to

> perpetuate falsehoods and whatever dangers are associated with believing them.

>

> Raymond Julian

 Man, Chill.



 That's what he said and I had no reason to disbelieve him. But yes, the two finger thing might not be useful.



 Chill!!



 --------

 Eric M. Jones

 www.PerihelionDesign.com

 113 Brentwood Drive

 Southbridge, MA 01550

 (508) 764-2072

 emjones(at)charter.net





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373583#373583

napolin(at)me.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: AEC9001 Schottky diode in Z-13/8

I have personally touched ignition wires in a high school electricity class many years ago with supervision from the instructor , after he demonstrated it first.  As long as there is no other possible path other than the two fingers all you feel is a strong tingling in the fingers.  Dont make a mistake though.

Niko

Nikolaos Napoli

On May 22, 2012, at 2:55 PM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 This does not address the "explanation" of how he did it.

> I used to know an 85-year old electrician nicknamed Sparky (really)

> who told me that in the early days they never used meters, he would

> just put his two fingers across the line (even 440V!). But there was

> a technique to it--one finger on the hot and one on the ground or

> neutral AT THE SAME INSTANT--And don't touch anything else. Same when

> removing them.

 Your claim that there is a technique to it,

 The part that is not well explained is that you must not be in contact with

 any ground.  Now you can touch the hot wire and not be shocked, because

 there is not a completed circuit through your body.  So, If you are not

 grounded it makes no difference if you touch both wires at the same time or

 not.  There is only a completed circuit when you touch both wires, and the

 completed circuit is from one finger to the other.  Hope this muddies the

 waters even more.

 Don't do this!!  It's a stupid practice!!!

 Roger

 Do Not Archive

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