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cgroote1(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Okay, I've done the things suggested in the past on this thread relative to main gear leg shudder. So, after having a chase car observe the main gear lateral to and fro motion, re-torqueing axle nuts, checking gear box bolts, balancing tires and wheel covers, buying new tires and balancing them, installing braided brake lines, experimenting with various weights of the plane (fuel, baggage, people), fore and aft stick, different tire pressures, tapping the brakes, letting it roll out, I still get 14-16 knot shudder, And so, I've adopted previous suggested attitudes of "regard it as not a problem", "annoying and embarrassing but not a problem", and "don't worry, just let it shake".
Question: other RV models have used wood stiffeners; has anyone actually used this or other material in an RV-10, and if so, did it work? What material, shape, length, and how fastened? Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Curt Groote
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I've been flying with wood stiffeners fiberglassed on the gear legs for about 20 hours. It has definitely helped but when I'm light they still lightly shake. When I'm heavy they don't shake at all. Mine used to shake at 30 kias. Much better though.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 17, 2012, at 21:47, curtis groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com (cgroote1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Okay, I've done the things suggested in the past on this thread relative to main gear leg shudder. So, after having a chase car observe the main gear lateral to and fro motion, re-torqueing axle nuts, checking gear box bolts, balancing tires and wheel covers, buying new tires and balancing them, installing braided brake lines, experimenting with various weights of the plane (fuel, baggage, people), fore and aft stick, different tire pressures, tapping the brakes, letting it roll out, I still get 14-16 knot shudder, And so, I've adopted previous suggested attitudes of "regard it as not a problem", "annoying and embarrassing but not a problem", and "don't worry, just let it shake".
Question: other RV models have used wood stiffeners; has anyone actually used this or other material in an RV-10, and if so, did it work? What material, shape, length, and how fastened? Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Curt Groote
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RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
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bill.peyton
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Sean,
Is the shudder from the main gear? Do you have any photos
Bill
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Barry
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I am using the Matco axle on the nose wheel and cut the rubber seal on the bearings back as suggested on the Matco web site. The axle allows better pressure on the taper bearings and cutting the seal back allows the wheel to turn freer. I still get a very slight shudder sometimes but it is much better than before the mods.
Check out Antisplataero.com; they do a mod on the nose wheel to convert to ball bearings and seem to have good results with other "A" models. The ball bearings let the wheel spin freely and seems to take the side load off the gear leg. If I have some down time in the future I may try their mod. Blue Skys Barry
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Bill,
No photos yet
Yes I believe it's the right main.
When I first heard about this I was still in the building process and hadn't
installed the gear yet. I paid close attention if my gear was toed in or
out. When I check the predrilled hole in the gear I realized from the
factory, one gear toed in and one toed out. I originally thought this was
causing some RV10's to shake at a certain speed. I fixed mine by calling
Vans and asking if I could go one bolt size bigger on the gear mount. They
replied yes so I set mine perfect to 1.2 toe in and tac welded the top so I
could drill a new bigger hole. After I drilled the bigger hole I used a
grinder to take off the welds and pulled the gear out, cleaned the holes and
reinstalled. I thought for sure this would fix the shake but it didn't. It
was very light until I put the extra weight of the wheel pants on. I got
sick of it over time and thought I would try the wood. I prosealed the wood
on and taped it with fiber tape to test. It worked much better so I
stripped the tape and fiberglassed it in. Like I said earlier it didn't
take all the shake away but it is a heck of a lot better than it was.
---
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40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I took video of mine and it is definitely the right main gear shaking starting at about 15 knots.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Training
40559
Flying 500+ hours
On May 21, 2012, at 11:58 PM, Seano wrote:
Bill,
No photos yet
Yes I believe it's the right main.
When I first heard about this I was still in the building process and hadn't installed the gear yet. I paid close attention if my gear was toed in or out. When I check the predrilled hole in the gear I realized from the factory, one gear toed in and one toed out. I originally thought this was causing some RV10's to shake at a certain speed. I fixed mine by calling Vans and asking if I could go one bolt size bigger on the gear mount. They replied yes so I set mine perfect to 1.2 toe in and tac welded the top so I could drill a new bigger hole. After I drilled the bigger hole I used a grinder to take off the welds and pulled the gear out, cleaned the holes and reinstalled. I thought for sure this would fix the shake but it didn't. It was very light until I put the extra weight of the wheel pants on. I got sick of it over time and thought I would try the wood. I prosealed the wood on and taped it with fiber tape to test. It worked much better so I stripped the tape and fiberglassed it in. Like I said earlier it didn't take all the shake away but it is a heck of a lot better than it was.
---
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David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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ddddsp1(at)juno.com
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com [quote][b]
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com (ddddsp1(at)juno.com) wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I have tried three different types of tires and have gone from 40 -60 psi with no change.
I am convinced the only fix is to stiffen the gear forward and back.
-Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 11:28 PM, David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)> wrote:
[quote]I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com (ddddsp1(at)juno.com) wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com
[b]
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treading(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I built a RV7 and had to fiberglass the wood stiffeners to finally get rid of the shudder. The wheel fairings made it worse when I reinstalled them after winter was over. I was hoping that I would not have to install them on the 10 that I am building .
Tom
From: "Scott Schmidt" <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:13:45 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited
I have tried three different types of tires and have gone from 40 -60 psi with no change.
I am convinced the only fix is to stiffen the gear forward and back.
-Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 11:28 PM, David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)> wrote:
[quote]I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com (ddddsp1(at)juno.com) wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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jpiper623(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Scott, I dont know or if have heard of this already but check out antisplataero.com maybe try new bearings on the mains. The site looks very interesting. I dont know if will help but check it out. John Z
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I have tried three different types of tires and have gone from 40 -60 psi with no change.
I am convinced the only fix is to stiffen the gear forward and back.
-Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 11:28 PM, David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com (ddddsp1(at)juno.com) wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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taildragon(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Just curious...just curious...do the Van's demo RV-10's have this shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
Roger
[quote] ---
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Also seems odd to only be right main, perhaps due to lack of passenger
weight on that side? Anyone try flying from the right seat to see if it
moves to left main?
On 5/22/2012 7:16 PM, Roger Standley wrote:
[quote] Just curious...just curious...do the Van's demo RV-10's have this
shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex
D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight
in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
Roger
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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It's not just the right...on mine it's been the Left sometimes.
But, it doesn't happen all that often. Usually I'm a little
more loaded (not like Delta pilots version of "loaded") when
I fly.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 5/22/2012 9:35 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
[quote]
Also seems odd to only be right main, perhaps due to lack of passenger
weight on that side? Anyone try flying from the right seat to see if it
moves to left main?
On 5/22/2012 7:16 PM, Roger Standley wrote:
> Just curious...just curious...do the Van's demo RV-10's have this
> shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex
> D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight
> in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
> Roger
>
> ---
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I had a fairly profound nose wheel shimmy but after 60-100 hours (sorry don’t recall) we got the nose wheel dialed in (proper tightness & air pressure) and have had zero shimmy since (300 TT). Not sure why I don’t have the Mains issues. Anyone else out there w/o this issue?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited
Just curious...just curious..do the Van's demo RV-10's have this shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
Roger
[quote]
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I haven't noticed any shimmy, nose or mains, light or heavy. Completely stock except for the (correct) Matco nose wheel and bearing system.
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thane
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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On my last conditional, I found, of course some wear in on the main bearings. But I also found that both main wheel pant brackets had excessive slop in the mounting hardware. The nuts had not loosened at all, but the spacer material to offset the brackets had worn in. Once I tightened this all up and repacked my bearings, I only have occasional shudder during various taxi scenarios. Don't know which side is the culprit, or if it is both. I also found the nylock nuts on the wheels themselves to be loose. I assume with the heat from braking being transferred to the wheels the nylon became hard and began to fail. I upgraded the wheel half nuts to all metal to hopefully stop them from backing off.
Thane states
220TT
RV-10
[quote] ---
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Sean at Planearound.com makes a great replacement spacer
that will get rid of the slop permanently. Now that you've
tightened it up again, it will be OK for a while but eventually
will wear further and further until finally the hole is worn
thru and you need to replace the whole large bracket, so it's
probably worth checking into another option rather than
just retorquing.
Tim
On 5/23/2012 7:56 AM, Thane States wrote:
[quote] On my last conditional, I found, of course some wear in on the main
bearings. But I also found that both main wheel pant brackets had
excessive slop in the mounting hardware. The nuts had not loosened at
all, but the spacer material to offset the brackets had worn in. Once I
tightened this all up and repacked my bearings, I only have occasional
shudder during various taxi scenarios. Don't know which side is the
culprit, or if it is both. I also found the nylock nuts on the wheels
themselves to be loose. I assume with the heat from braking being
transferred to the wheels the nylon became hard and began to fail. I
upgraded the wheel half nuts to all metal to hopefully stop them from
backing off.
Thane states
220TT
RV-10
---
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rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:01 am Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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Robin;
I seem to be in the same situation. I had it initially than my mentor fixed my tightness on the front and I am shimmy free.
Never had the rear shudder at all.
Pascal
On May 22, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com (robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I had a fairly profound nose wheel shimmy but after 60-100 hours (sorry don’t recall) we got the nose wheel dialed in (proper tightness & air pressure) and have had zero shimmy since (300 TT). Not sure why I don’t have the Mains issues. Anyone else out there w/o this issue?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited
Just curious...just curious...do the Van's demo RV-10's have this shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
Roger
[quote]
---
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: Main gear shudder revisited |
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I haven't had any shimmy at 175 hours. Half of my operations are off a relatively rough grass strip and I don't think any shimmy would be detected during those ops. However, I'm guessing that any wear that would cause a shimmy would be accelerated. We'll see.
Bill
On 5/23/2012 12:13 AM, Robin Marks wrote: [quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I had a fairly profound nose wheel shimmy but after 60-100 hours (sorry don’t recall) we got the nose wheel dialed in (proper tightness & air pressure) and have had zero shimmy since (300 TT). Not sure why I don’t have the Mains issues. Anyone else out there w/o this issue?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:16 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited
Just curious...just curious...do the Van's demo RV-10's have this shaking problem? How about Van's personal RV-10? I don't remember Alex D's RV-10 shaking during transition training. He carries some weight in the cargo area. Could an aft CG make it shake less?
Roger
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: John Zazulka (jpiper623(at)gmail.com)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Main gear shudder revisited
Scott, I dont know or if have heard of this already but check out antisplataero.com maybe try new bearings on the mains. The site looks very interesting. I dont know if will help but check it out. John Z
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
I have tried three different types of tires and have gone from 40 -60 psi with no change.
I am convinced the only fix is to stiffen the gear forward and back.
-Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 11:28 PM, David Maib <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I've tried everything from 40 to 50 psi with no noticeable difference. I changed to the Desser retreads with leak guard tubes when the original Van's tires were worn out. Again, no noticeable change. I have balanced carefully, but makes no difference. I get a shake starting at about 15 knots GS and it goes away at about 18 or 19 knots. Seems a bit more noticeable when braking hard on landing, but no real repeatable set of conditions. Sometimes, it doesn't shake at all. Video camera on the belly of the airplane confirmed right main gear is the culprit on my airplane.
David Maib
RV-10 Transition Trainer
40559
On May 22, 2012, at 1:24 AM, ddddsp1(at)juno.com (ddddsp1(at)juno.com) wrote:
just curious,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what air pressure you guys running in your mains? Also do you still have the original vans tires?
Dean
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
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