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Takeoff and Full flap landings

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rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I was given feedback  that I should avoid full flaps with the plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in  baggage area). I had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a airport  that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper approach will be needed on  final. Speaking with a builder this morning I received solid feedback on why I  should use full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting versus the 15/18  degrees.

 I understand the wind requirement for when to and not use the full flaps, I  am interested in feedback about when do others use full flaps and reasons not to  use it.

 

 On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for shorter/ need to climb  over obstacles at end of runway, but the discussion came up about why not use 15  degrees? 

 Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?

 Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate on which is right or  wrong.

 Thank you!

 

 Pascal



   [quote][b]

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

I use full flaps, all weights and wind conditions.  Have not had a problem.

 

No opinion on the flaps on take off?  Have tested it and half flap takeoffs are interesting and would appear to be an advantage for short/soft fields.  But have not done enough to have a real opinion.

 

Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:19 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

 

I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I was given feedback that I should avoid full flaps with the plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in baggage area). I had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a airport that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper approach will be needed on final. Speaking with a builder this morning I received solid feedback on why I should use full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting versus the 15/18 degrees.



I understand the wind requirement for when to and not use the full flaps, I am interested in feedback about when do others use full flaps and reasons not to use it.



On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for shorter/ need to climb over obstacles at end of runway, but the discussion came up about why not use 15 degrees? 



Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?



Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate on which is right or wrong.



Thank you!



Pascal



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jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

Pascal... sounds like a great trip. my first camping trip in the -10     is high on my todo list!

     

     i can't think of a good reason to avoid full flaps. it lowers my     stall speed by a good margin in all CG configurations, so not sure     what is the harm.

     

     my word of warning is for a half-flaps takeoff. i casually decided     to give this a go one day. i normally do 0 degree takeoffs but this     was my first time at half-flaps. the plane wants to rotate so     quickly, that it caught me by surprise. i was still pushing the     throttle in when the mains left the ground before the nose wheel. i     quickly pulled back on the stick, so no harm done. anyway, i was     quite surprised how quickly everything happened.

     

     next time, i will make sure to add some back elevator trim before     doing a half-flaps takeoff.

     

     Jae

     -- 

      	  Quote: 	
		  #40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 	
     

     On 5/24/2012 10:18 AM, Pascal wrote:     [quote]                                        I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I               was given feedback that I should avoid full flaps with the               plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in baggage area). I               had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a               airport that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper               approach will be needed on final. Speaking with a builder               this morning I received solid feedback on why I should use               full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting               versus the 15/18 degrees.

             I understand the wind requirement for when to and not               use the full flaps, I am interested in feedback about when               do others use full flaps and reasons not to use it.

             On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for               shorter/ need to climb over obstacles at end of runway,               but the discussion came up about why not use 15 degrees? 

             Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?

             Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate               on which is right or wrong.

             Thank you!

             Pascal

           

         

       

       

     [b]

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

To clarify what I think Jae was saying - it's not that it wants to 

"rotate" in the classic sense, rather it will want to "wheelbarrow on 

the nosewheel because half flaps requires significant up-trim at full 

power.  And I totally agree, you need to prepare for that if you 

routinely make 0 deg TOs.

 	  Quote: 	
		   my word of warning is for a half-flaps takeoff. i casually decided to 

 give this a go one day. i normally do 0 degree takeoffs but this was 

 my first time at half-flaps. the plane wants to rotate so quickly, 

 that it caught me by surprise. i was still pushing the throttle in 

 when the mains left the ground before the nose wheel. i quickly pulled 

 back on the stick, so no harm done. anyway, i was quite surprised how 

 quickly everything happened. 


	


My standard procedure is to takeoff with half flaps and land with full 

flaps.  The half flaps probably has something to do with my home field 

being turf with obstructions but I never vary even on 7,000' of 

concrete.  Full flaps work in most/all wind conditions for me though I'm 

careful to liberal with power if the wind gradient gets you low and slow.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Next time, i will make sure to add some back elevator trim before 

 doing a half-flaps takeoff.

Yes, it really help to have a trim position figured out and set before 
	


takeoff with half flaps.



Bill

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

Thank you all who responded so quickly. Great information!

 Sticking to the plan!

 Thanks!

 Pascal

    

  From: Pascal (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net) 

 Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 10:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

  



     I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I was given feedback  that I should avoid full flaps with the plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in  baggage area). I had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a airport  that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper approach will be needed on  final. Speaking with a builder this morning I received solid feedback on why I  should use full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting versus the 15/18  degrees.

 I understand the wind requirement for when to and not use the full flaps, I  am interested in feedback about when do others use full flaps and reasons not to  use it.

 

 On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for shorter/ need to climb  over obstacles at end of runway, but the discussion came up about why not use 15  degrees? 

 Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?

 Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate on which is right or  wrong.

 Thank you!

 

 Pascal

   [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Takeoff and Full flap landings

I'd kindly suggest you exercise caution in whose advice you seek. There is absolutely no reason not to use full flaps for landing. 



Some people do avoid full flaps because their aircraft's CG is too far forward and they run out of elevator authority in the flare. Better to carry some ballast. This shouldn't be an issue for you with that much weight in the back.



The -10 has a powerful rudder, and is a good cross wind plane. I would go to partial flaps only if the winds were so strong that I thought a go-around was likely, in which case I'd like to have the flaps already at 15-20.



Takeoffs with 15-20 flaps will shorten the ground roll, but also reduce the rate of climb after lift off.



I presume you've done a weight and balance. With a lot of weight in the baggage area but not so much elsewhere you may be pretty far aft. Did you check the C.G. at the landing weight? As you burn gas it will move aft if it was aft to start with.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

I use full flaps on landing *all* the time.

I use 1 notch of flaps for takeoff when I'm on grass or short

fields.



Tim



On 5/24/2012 12:18 PM, Pascal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I was given

 feedback that I should avoid full flaps with the plane loaded (2515lbs-

 95lb of that in baggage area). I had planned to use full flaps, as I am

 coming into a airport that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper

 approach will be needed on final. Speaking with a builder this morning I

 received solid feedback on why I should use full flaps or a partial

 (20-25 degrees) flap setting versus the 15/18 degrees.

 I understand the wind requirement for when to and not use the full

 flaps, I am interested in feedback about when do others use full flaps

 and reasons not to use it.

 On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for shorter/ need to

 climb over obstacles at end of runway, but the discussion came up about

 why not use 15 degrees?

 Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?

 Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate on which is right

 or wrong.

 Thank you!

 Pascal

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

Sometimes people give advice without one asking. It is a certainty at my 

airport. Regardless if the advice comes from a friend of a friend whose 

brother was an A/P or a experienced pilot, I consider every piece of 

"advice" given.

This forum serves as a great jury on what may or may not be a problem. Since 

most have flown their planes far more than I have, especially with folks and 

cargo aboard, the advice is far more credible for my final decision on how 

to fly into a mountainous valley airport.

I use Greg Hale's W&B that he offered up to the group. I have two kids in 

the back that along with 95lbs in baggage (three women will do this!) 

Differnce in CG is minimal for the 45 minute flight.



Appreciate your feedback!

Pascal



--

arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

Try doing a touch and go after landing with full flaps.  The ten lifts off like a Harrier!  



Dave Leikam



On May 24, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Jae Chang wrote:

[quote]                    Pascal... sounds like a great trip. my first camping trip in the -10     is high on my todo list!

     

     i can't think of a good reason to avoid full flaps. it lowers my     stall speed by a good margin in all CG configurations, so not sure     what is the harm.

     

     my word of warning is for a half-flaps takeoff. i casually decided     to give this a go one day. i normally do 0 degree takeoffs but this     was my first time at half-flaps. the plane wants to rotate so     quickly, that it caught me by surprise. i was still pushing the     throttle in when the mains left the ground before the nose wheel. i     quickly pulled back on the stick, so no harm done. anyway, i was     quite surprised how quickly everything happened.

     

     next time, i will make sure to add some back elevator trim before     doing a half-flaps takeoff.

     

     Jae

     -- 

      	  Quote: 	
		  #40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 	
     

     On 5/24/2012 10:18 AM, Pascal wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                                          I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I               was given feedback that I should avoid full flaps with the               plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in baggage area). I               had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a               airport that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper               approach will be needed on final. Speaking with a builder               this morning I received solid feedback on why I should use               full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting               versus the 15/18 degrees.

             I understand the wind requirement for when to and not               use the full flaps, I am interested in feedback about when               do others use full flaps and reasons not to use it.

             On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for               shorter/ need to climb over obstacles at end of runway,               but the discussion came up about why not use 15 degrees? 

             Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?

             Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate               on which is right or wrong.

             Thank you!

             Pascal

           

         

       

       

     

	


[b]

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: Takeoff and Full flap landings

Yep! that is real fun, I did a couple of "wave offs" like that while exploring the envelope.

-Chris

  N919AR 

 

do not archive

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Leikam

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:58 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Takeoff and Full flap landings

 

Try doing a touch and go after landing with full flaps.  The ten lifts off like a Harrier!  

 



Dave Leikam



 

On May 24, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Jae Chang wrote:





Pascal... sounds like a great trip. my first camping trip in the -10 is high on my todo list!



i can't think of a good reason to avoid full flaps. it lowers my stall speed by a good margin in all CG configurations, so not sure what is the harm.



my word of warning is for a half-flaps takeoff. i casually decided to give this a go one day. i normally do 0 degree takeoffs but this was my first time at half-flaps. the plane wants to rotate so quickly, that it caught me by surprise. i was still pushing the throttle in when the mains left the ground before the nose wheel. i quickly pulled back on the stick, so no harm done. anyway, i was quite surprised how quickly everything happened.



next time, i will make sure to add some back elevator trim before doing a half-flaps takeoff.



Jae

-- 



 	  Quote: 	
		  #40533 RV-10First flight 10/19/2011Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 	




On 5/24/2012 10:18 AM, Pascal wrote: 

I am about to take the family out on a camping trip. I was given feedback that I should avoid full flaps with the plane loaded (2515lbs- 95lb of that in baggage area). I had planned to use full flaps, as I am coming into a airport that is surrounded by hills and hence a steeper approach will be needed on final. Speaking with a builder this morning I received solid feedback on why I should use full flaps or a partial (20-25 degrees) flap setting versus the 15/18 degrees.



I understand the wind requirement for when to and not use the full flaps, I am interested in feedback about when do others use full flaps and reasons not to use it.



On the flip side on takeoff- I may use 0 degrees for shorter/ need to climb over obstacles at end of runway, but the discussion came up about why not use 15 degrees? 



Thoughts on use of flaps on takeoff? any real benefits?



Just looking for what others do and why, not a debate on which is right or wrong.



Thank you!



Pascal





 

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