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MKIII accident back in March

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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

I just came across this and did not remember seeing it on the list.



NTSB Report:

On March 24, 2012, about 1015 eastern daylight time, an experimental amateur-built New Kolb Aircraft Company Mark III Classic, N528DJ, was substantially damaged when it impacted trees while approaching DeLand Municipal Airport (DED), DeLand, Florida. The certificated private pilot and the passenger were not injured. The local personal flight was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.



According to preliminary information provided by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the airplane was on final approach to runway 23 when the engine lost power. The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

There is a MkIII project/wreck for sale on Barnstomers...In Fla as I 

recall...Herb



At 05:15 PM 5/24/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I just came across this and did not remember seeing it on the list.



NTSB Report:

On March 24, 2012, about 1015 eastern daylight time, an experimental 

amateur-built New Kolb Aircraft Company Mark III Classic, N528DJ, 

was substantially damaged when it impacted trees while approaching 

DeLand Municipal Airport (DED), DeLand, Florida. The certificated 

private pilot and the passenger were not injured. The local personal 

flight was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal 

Regulations Part 91.



According to preliminary information provided by the Federal 

Aviation Administration (FAA), the airplane was on final approach to 

runway 23 when the engine lost power. The pilot deployed the 

airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373813#373813

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

At 06:15 PM 5/24/2012, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  According to preliminary information provided by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the airplane was on final approach to runway 23 when the engine lost power. The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees. 	


 The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't make the runway?



 -Dana

 --

 Newton's Seventeenth Law of American Life:  For every action, there is an unequal and moronic overreaction.    

    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't

make the runway?



-Dana



 

Folks:



I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a Jabiru.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

DanaYou & I think alike. I always want to be where I can land safely when/if the engine quits. Lots of pilots simply drag it in with power, on final,  and sometimes get in trouble. I suspect that's what killed Norm Labhart.

Why NOT fly defensively?

Russ



On May 24, 2012, at 8:31 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

[quote] At 06:15 PM 5/24/2012, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  According to preliminary information provided by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the airplane was on final approach to runway 23 when the engine lost power. The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees. 	


 The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't make the runway?



 -Dana

 --

 Newton's Seventeenth Law of American Life:  For every action, there is an unequal and moronic overreaction.    

     	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

At 08:47 PM 5/24/2012, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>



 

  The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't

 make the runway?



 Folks:



 I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a Jabiru. 	


 Good one! 



 -Dana



 do not archive

 --

 What's brown and sticky? A stick!

    [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

I imagine he was wishing he had bought a Rotax 912 instead of a  Jabiru.>>

  

 Naughty. Naughty!. My solicitors will commence the  libel suite forthwith.

 You may have to defend your statement in  court.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

 Xtra with Jabi (but you can buy it if you  like)

 



   [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:57 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into  the trees.

The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he  couldn't make the runway?>>

  

 Same question the other way round. How far out was  he if he had enough height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in  atree. Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and  it becoming useful?

  

 I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new  pilot who had got too low trying to make it back to the field.  We watched  with interest as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it  over the surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we  decided that he had  landed in the next field.

 The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared  just clearing the hedge before plopping down very untidily on the  airfield.

 All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing  to do. You cannot regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would  have a perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it  worked.

 Stranger things, Horatio.....

  

 Pat 

 



-Dana



   [quote][b]

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:43 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

That's not  even fair to say things like that about an engine you don't use, It could be the mechanic/Owner self induced issue 

   How would You like it if someone else said something like that when JW went in 

   I'm not trying to start a rant here just looking at it from two perspectives  

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

Cold John,real cold

  

  

    --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

That's not  even fair to say things like that about an engine you don't use,

It could be the mechanic/Owner self induced issue 

How would You like it if someone else said something like that when JW went

in 

I'm not trying to start a rant here just looking at it from two perspectives

 

Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 



Lighten up a little, Ellery.



My comment was made in jest.  



My good friend John Williamson was killed 4 years ago today.  RIP, Brother.

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

On Behalf Of Gary Aman



Cold John,real cold

 

 

 

Hopefully, you all will recover from my small attempt at humor.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

PatCould it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the hedge?

Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work.  Maybe did?

Russ



On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees.

The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't make the runway?>>

 

Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree. Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and it becoming useful?

 

I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got too low trying to make it back to the field.  We watched with interest as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we decided that he had  landed in the next field.

The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the hedge before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.

All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.

Stranger things, Horatio.....

 

Pat 

-Dana



 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast.  A glider can glide a long way at ground level if it comes in fast, slowly bleeding speed off, and if timed right, still have enough speed [kinetic energy] to convert back into altitude [potential energy].  Not even particularly risky if you know what you're doing.



 I used to do something similar in my T-Craft, fly low and fast over the water just offshore. knowing that if my engine quit I had enough speed to zoom up and have enough altitude to shoot a landing on the beach.  Of course it doesn't work in a slow draggy airplane like a Kolb...



 -Dana



 



 At 02:33 PM 5/25/2012, kinne russ wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Pat

 Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the hedge?

 Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work.  Maybe did?

 Russ



 On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees.

 The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't make the runway?>>

  

 Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree. Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and it becoming useful?

  

 I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got too low trying to make it back to the field.  We watched with interest as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we decided that he had  landed in the next field.

 The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the hedge before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.

 All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.

 Stranger things, Horatio.....

  

 Pat 



 

 -Dana



  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[/b] 	
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[/b] 	
	


 --

 Some people have a large circle of friends, while others have only friends that they like. 

    [quote][b]

kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

<<  Could it not have been that the  glider pilot dived, got into ground-effect to get more speed with less drag;  then popped up over the hedge?  >>

  

 This is exactly the maneuver described by a CFI-G  many years ago in Soaring magazine, I believe.

  

 Tom Kuffel

  

 Do not archive.

   [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

got into ground-effect to get more speed with less  drag;..

  

 Could be. it was certainly accidental. I don`t  think any of us at that stage would have dreamed up an explanation like  that.

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and  fast.>>

  

 Yep, I have done it myself in a 19 metre Jantar  full of water. If you pull up and dump the ballast at the same time it is most  impressive.

 I don`t think it would have worked in a Grunau when  the guy was crawling in at minimum  sink. I think the fact that he got away  with it surprised the pilot as much as it did the watchiing club members who  thought that they were going to have to go on a long walking  retrieve .

  

 Could happen I suppose.

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

Soaring magazine carried an article many moons ago that proved that  flying at max l/d, adjusted for headwind gave the pilot the longest glide. Lower  efficiency at higher speed, even in ground effect, did not result in more  distance. That's with a high efficiency sailplane wing. The Kolb wing loses  efficiency faster at speed. The struts generate more drag. It's not going to  work. 

  

  

  

 ---

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: MKIII accident back in March

DanaGood point. The owner's manual for the Beech Staggerwing says if the engine quits, immediately zoom up 500'! Only possible in a VERY clean and fast aircraft.

Russ



On May 25, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

[quote] Actually a not uncommon glider technique... come in low and fast.  A glider can glide a long way at ground level if it comes in fast, slowly bleeding speed off, and if timed right, still have enough speed [kinetic energy] to convert back into altitude [potential energy].  Not even particularly risky if you know what you're doing.



 I used to do something similar in my T-Craft, fly low and fast over the water just offshore. knowing that if my engine quit I had enough speed to zoom up and have enough altitude to shoot a landing on the beach.  Of course it doesn't work in a slow draggy airplane like a Kolb...



 -Dana



 



 At 02:33 PM 5/25/2012, kinne russ wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Pat

 Could it not have been that the glider pilot dived, got into ground-effect to get more speed with less drag; then popped up over the hedge?

 Risky and I'm sure unnerving but it could work.  Maybe did?

 Russ



 On May 25, 2012, at 4:56 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  The pilot deployed the airplane's parachute, and the airplane settled into the trees.

 The question is what was he doing so low in FINAL APPROACH that he couldn't make the runway?>>

  

 Same question the other way round. How far out was he if he had enough height to deploy and develop the parachute and still land in atree. Anyone know how much height loss there is between pulling the chute and it becoming useful?

  

 I remember in my gliding days watching a fairly new pilot who had got too low trying to make it back to the field.  We watched with interest as he sank and it was obvious that he was not going to make it over the surrounding tall hedge. Suddenly the guy dived out of sight and we decided that he had  landed in the next field.

 The tension relaxed and then the guy reappeared just clearing the hedge before plopping down very untidily on the airfield.

 All the theory and sums say that is the wrong thing to do. You cannot regain height that you have thrown away otherwise you would have a perpetual motion machine. Nevertheless in this case it worked.

 Stranger things, Horatio.....

  

 Pat 



 

 -Dana



  	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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http://forums.matronics.com

- List Contribution Web Site -

-Matt Dralle, List Admin.

http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 --

 Some people have a large circle of friends, while others have only friends that they like. 

     	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

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