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Gear problem Yak 50

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gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Thanks Vic. 



We will try that in the morning. Where is the shuttle valve located?  I am

wondering why I had the retraction problem in the first place and then not

being able to get the gear down normally. Maybe the shuttle valve needs

cleaning?  We will know more tomorrow. 



As I understand the schematic for the gear....  air goes from main tank

through the main air valve to the undercarriage lever where it is routed to

either side of the undercarriage jack. Please correct me if this is wrong.



Thank goodness for this forum!   Gord

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Gord, you must not use the emergency system to full blow down of the gear,

when on jacks. Be careful: there's NO restriction on the pressure when

using the emergency system.



Furthermore: the Russians say that you must not use the emergency system

more than three times (in full force) without having a serious inspection

of the system, just because there's no restriction to the air coming from

the emergency flask (logical: you want the gear down and locked, even with

bad seals).



There IS a restriction, a small disk with a tiny hole, in the circuit of

the normal system.It is on top of the connection to the actuator.

DO NOT LOOSE THAT VERY SMALL DISK when you want to dissassemble the leads

to the actuators.



As far as I understand, you did not get enough pressure to lock the gear

in the upper position. You may have leaks on the lines to the actuator, or

maybe in the actuator itself. When was it last overhauled?



Also: the system on the 50 is quite different from the system on the Yak

52.You'll be amazed: the whole actuator can move (and has to be able to)

contrary to the Yak 52.



I'd suggest that you get someone knowledgeable about the Yak 50.



Good luck,



Jan



On 29/05/12 03:43, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks Vic. 



We will try that in the morning. Where is the shuttle valve located?  I am

wondering why I had the retraction problem in the first place and then not

being able to get the gear down normally. Maybe the shuttle valve needs

cleaning?  We will know more tomorrow.



As I understand the schematic for the gear....  air goes from main tank

through the main air valve to the undercarriage lever where it is routed

to

either side of the undercarriage jack. Please correct me if this is wrong.



Thank goodness for this forum!   Gord

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

You can empty the emergency system by using the brakes, left, right,

alternately, use the rudder.

If there's some air left in the main system, the shuttle valve will

ultimately pop back to the other side.

Then do your gear tests on jacks. My guess is that you have some air loss

on the line to the left actuator. Maybe a broken line.

Anyway, if it has been a long time, then now is a good opportunity to

overhaul the actuators?



Jan



On 29/05/12 03:43, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks Vic. 



We will try that in the morning. Where is the shuttle valve located?  I am

wondering why I had the retraction problem in the first place and then not

being able to get the gear down normally. Maybe the shuttle valve needs

cleaning?  We will know more tomorrow.



As I understand the schematic for the gear....  air goes from main tank

through the main air valve to the undercarriage lever where it is routed

to

either side of the undercarriage jack. Please correct me if this is wrong.



Thank goodness for this forum!   Gord

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:32 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

If anyone is interested, here is a gear retraction/extension test 

procedure that keeps the gear from slamming down when doing the 

emergency gear extension test.   Works for Yak 50's, 52's and CJ6's.  

This procedure is on my web site, www.yak-52.com, on the home page.

- Before you perform this test, refill the main and emergency air bottles.

- With the airplane properly placed on the jacks, open the main air valve.

- Raise the gear using the front gear selector ie: move the gear 

selector to the UP position.

- Confirm the gear is up and locked (confirm 2/3 red lights)

- TURN OFF the main air valve

- WITH THE GEAR SELECTOR STILL IN THE UP POSITION, open the emergency 

air valve.

- The gear will most likely relax and some or all of the UP (red) lights 

may go out.

- Now move the gear selector to the neutral position. The gear should go 

down and lock.

- Confirm down and locked with 2/3 green lights.

- Turn off emergency air valve

- Squeeze the brake handle until all remaining air is depleted in the 

system. No "wooshing" sound when the brake handle is squeezed and released.

   (On Yak 52 W's and TW's, open the EMERGENCY AIR BLEED VALVE AT THE 

REAR OF THE RIGHT SIDE CONSOLE)

- Move and confirm the gear selector is in the DOWN position.  Move the 

slide lock to the right.

- Open the main air valve

- Move the gear selector to the UP position and confirm you have 2/3 red 

lights.

- Move the gear selector to the DOWN position and confirm you have 2/3 

green lights.

- Turn the main air off.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 12:54 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 You can empty the emergency system by using the brakes, left, right,

 alternately, use the rudder.

 If there's some air left in the main system, the shuttle valve will

 ultimately pop back to the other side.

 Then do your gear tests on jacks. My guess is that you have some air loss

 on the line to the left actuator. Maybe a broken line.

 Anyway, if it has been a long time, then now is a good opportunity to

 overhaul the actuators?



 Jan



 On 29/05/12 03:43, "gord"<gord(at)thedampub.ca>  wrote:



> 

>

> Thanks Vic.

>

> We will try that in the morning. Where is the shuttle valve located?  I am

> wondering why I had the retraction problem in the first place and then not

> being able to get the gear down normally. Maybe the shuttle valve needs

> cleaning?  We will know more tomorrow.

>

> As I understand the schematic for the gear....  air goes from main tank

> through the main air valve to the undercarriage lever where it is routed

> to

> either side of the undercarriage jack. Please correct me if this is wrong.

>

> Thank goodness for this forum!   Gord

>

gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

We emptied the emerg tank. The main tank pressure is up but nothing works.

We set the parking brake and moved the rudder to try and use the air but

nothing.  Looks like the shuttle valve is stuck. Where is the shuttle valve?

Does anyone have any pictures of the components?  Thanks



Gord



--

gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Questions from my mechanic Guy Doherty



--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

The shuttle valve's internal ball moves only with air pressure from 

whatever side (main or emergency) applies pressure to the shuttle 

valve.   Let's look at the system with no pressure at all in either the 

main or emergency bottles.   None of the components in the pneumatic 

system have any pressure on them.  That includes the shuttle valves.  

Now lets fill the main and emergency bottles.  Still none of the 

components have any pressure on them because we have not yet opened the 

main air valve or emergency air valve.

Now lets open the main air valve.  Air pressure is applied to all of the 

components in the system including the gear 'lifts' through actuator 

shuttle valves.  Shuttle valves are only on the DOWN side of the 

actuators.  Why?  Because there are two systems that have the capability 

to extend the gear; the main system and the emergency system.   When the 

air pressure is placed on the shuttle valve, the ball inside the shuttle 

valve is moved to the opposite side (internally) of the shuttle valve.  

This blocks the air pressure from the emergency system from entering the 

actuator.  The ball stays in that position until the emergency air valve 

is opened.  But the ball will not move unless there is no air pressure 

from the opposite side pressing against it.

Now with the airplane on jacks lets to do an emergency gear extension 

test.  To do this, we must first remove the pressure from the UP side of 

the actuator.  This is done by moving the gear selector to the neutral 

position.  That is the 'woosh' sound you hear when you move the gear 

selector to neutral.  Now there is no air pressure in the actuator and 

no pressure from the main system on the shuttle valve.  Open the 

emergency air valve and the gear moves to the down position VERY hard.  

What happened when you opened the emergency air valve was, air pressure 

was sent to the shuttle valve moving the little ball inside to the 

opposite side, thus blocking the main air side of the shuttle valve.  

Now here's the main point of this discussion.  If you don't remove the 

pressure from the shuttle valve, the air pressure will hold the ball in 

the position it is presently in and BLOCK any air from the main system 

side from being able to retract the gear.

That is why we have to first deplete all the air from the system 

components before we attempt to retract and extend the gear from the 

main system side.  We do this with the main and emergency air off and by 

squeezing the brake handle and if equipped, moving the flaps, until 

there is no air left in the system.  No 'woosh' sound when the brake 

handle is released.  Then when you open the main air valve, the shuttle 

valve moves back into the 'normal' position, blocking the emergency side 

of the shuttle valve.  Now the gear should retract and extend normally.

Hope this helps.

Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 12:54 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 You can empty the emergency system by using the brakes, left, right,

 alternately, use the rudder.

 If there's some air left in the main system, the shuttle valve will

 ultimately pop back to the other side.

 Then do your gear tests on jacks. My guess is that you have some air loss

 on the line to the left actuator. Maybe a broken line.

 Anyway, if it has been a long time, then now is a good opportunity to

 overhaul the actuators?

 Jan

 On 29/05/12 03:43, "gord"<gord(at)thedampub.ca>  wrote:

> 

>

> Thanks Vic.

>

> We will try that in the morning. Where is the shuttle valve located?  I am

> wondering why I had the retraction problem in the first place and then not

> being able to get the gear down normally. Maybe the shuttle valve needs

> cleaning?  We will know more tomorrow.

>

> As I understand the schematic for the gear....  air goes from main tank

> through the main air valve to the undercarriage lever where it is routed

> to

> either side of the undercarriage jack. Please correct me if this is wrong.

>

> Thank goodness for this forum!   Gord

>

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Answers to your questions:

1: you can't empty the emergency tank with the hand brake.  To empty the 

emergency tank you will have to loosen the B nut on the top of the 

tank.  The only reason to empty the emergency air tank would be to 

remove any pressure from the shuttle valves.

4: the brakes will not operate unless you open the main air valve.  Once 

the main air valve is open, the brakes should work properly.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 6:53 AM, gord wrote:

[quote] 



 Questions from my mechanic Guy Doherty



 --

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Gear problem Yak 50

Hello,



the shuttle valves are mounted on the gear actuators, see photo. Dennis explained the logics in the system perfectly. 



Vic

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Gord,

Did you try squeezing the brake handle until there was no air or 'woosh' 

when the brake handle is released.  Do this with both the main and 

emergency air valves off.    With the valves off what you are doing when 

you squeeze the brake handle until no more 'woosh' is heard, is using up 

all the air in the system (not the bottles).  This relieves the pressure 

on the shuttle valves.



There is a shuttle valve for each of the actuators.  Thus, 2 of them.   

Look at the top of the gear actuator.  This is the end opposite the 

chrome shaft that moves in and out to retract and extend the gear.  The 

is the DOWN end of the actuator.  Look for a line or small component in 

the line either on or close to the actuator.  This is the shuttle valve.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 6:45 AM, gord wrote:

[quote] 



 We emptied the emerg tank. The main tank pressure is up but nothing works.

 We set the parking brake and moved the rudder to try and use the air but

 nothing.  Looks like the shuttle valve is stuck. Where is the shuttle valve?

 Does anyone have any pictures of the components?  Thanks



 Gord



 --

gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Dennis  We did empty the emergency tank with the hand brake. The main air

valve was open. Could that be part of the problem?



Gord



--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

The only way you can empty the emergency tank with the hand brake is to 

have the emergency air valve open while you are squeezing the brake handle.



Go back to what we discussed on the phone and start from there.  Then 

let me know what happens.



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 8:00 AM, gord wrote:

[quote] 



 Dennis  We did empty the emergency tank with the hand brake. The main air

 valve was open. Could that be part of the problem?



 Gord



 --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Gord, 



If you left the main air valve and the emergency air valve open at the same time, then you obviously ran the air out of both systems. 



The YAK-50 is unlike the 52 in that when you go to refill the air from the external air fitting on the left side just aft of the canopy, it will fill both tanks (emergency and main) at the same time. 



Bottom line, if you used the emergency system, you need to reset the shuttle valves.  No way around that.   



There are two shuttle valves, one for each landing gear actuator.  You obtain access to them by taking off an access/inspection panel on the bottom of the wing forward of the hole that the tires go into when the gear comes up.  You can see the REAR of the actuator by looking inside of the gear well where the tires go up into.  That end will have one hose hooked to it, and it is used to RAISE the gear.  You are looking for the FORWARD end of that actuator and the access panel is on the BOTTOM of the aircraft. 



There are not too many panels to take off around that area, so just keep taking them off until you find the right one. 



You will KNOW that when you look up and see two black hoses connected to a "T" fitting that is in turn screwed up into the actual gear actuator itself.  



One of those hoses comes from the MAIN bottle.  Pressure is fed to it when the gear handle is down and the main air valve is open. 



The OTHER hose comes directly from the emergency bottle.  I can't remember for sure, but I seem to think the forward hose is from the emergency bottle, but DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT!  I HONESTLY DO NOT REMEMBER!  Just something in my head says it might be the front one.  



Jan has WARNED you correctly that if you take off the hose fitting that comes from the MAIN BOTTLE that there will be a little tiny cone shaped washer that will fall out and go rolling away into places unknown if you are not very very careful.  This is a flow restrictor and you sure as blazes do not want to LOSE THAT!  BE CAREFUL!   



In any case, since you are having so much trouble here, I suggest this procedure. 



After you find and take off the inspection panel for the forward end of the gear actuator, and find the forward air fittings on the bottom where the two hoses come in.  Figure out which one of them comes from the EMERGENCY BOTTLE.  You want to loosen that one so it is almost coming off.  Do that to both sides...  both actuators.  



Just to make sure you have the right ones loose, do this: 



First, I assume the gear is DOWN and the aircraft is securely on jacks. 



Turn off main and emergency hand valves in the cockpit.  Using the external air filling port, fill the air to about 2 on the gage.  



Put the gear handle in the MIDDLE position.  Not UP, not DOWN....   MIDDLE!  



Now just barely crack the emergency gear valve on the right side of the cockpit control panel.  You should hear air hissing out the loose fittings on each gear leg.  CHECK THAT!  Make sure that air is leaking out of BOTH of these fittings.  



Now close the emergency gear valve.  The air will stop coming out of the loose fittings.  



Now put the gear handle in the DOWN position.  



Using the external air fill port, fill aircraft air to 5 on the gage (50 BARS).  Do this SLOWLY.  You will see both EMERGENCY and MAIN bottle filling up at the same time.  This is normal. 



Now open the MAIN air valve.  



Cycle the gear handle up.  



The gear should come up.  All the way.   If it is a little slow doing so the FIRST time, do not worry.  

If there are no air leaks, tighten up the two loose fittings, safety wire them both (not easy by the way) and now cycle your landing gear normally a few times. 



When you are all done with this, raise the gear and LISTEN FOR ANY AIR HISSING OUT OF THE GEAR ACTUATOR LEVER IN THE COCKPIT.  If you hear air coming out of the gear handle in the cockpit with the gear either UP or the gear DOWN, then you have an internal seal in the gear actuator itself that is leaking.  



If that happens, the next step is figuring out which one is doing it... but we'll save on that until it becomes necessary, which hopefully it will not.  



You asked how to take out the actuators.  Answer:  IT IS NOT EASY!   Go to the saved messages in the YAK list and do a search.  You will come up with several answers.  Feel free to ask questions about which one you want to follow. 



The ALTERNATE procedure is to: 



1.  Have aircraft on jacks.  Gear down and selected down.  Both Emergency and Main gages read full.  

2.  Close BOTH main and emergency air valves. 

3.  Open ONLY THE EMERGENCY AIR VALVE.  LEAVE THE MAIN VALVE CLOSED! 

4.  Cycle brakes until all the air is gone.  

5.  LEAVE EMERGENCY AIR VALVE OPEN. 

6.  Open MAIN AIR VALVE

7.  Cycle Landing gear up and down two or three times.  

8.  CLOSE EMERGENCY AIR VALVE. 

9.  Refill system from external fill port to 5 on the gage (50 BAR) MAIN VALVE IS STILL OPEN

10. Cycle gear normally.  Listen for air leaking in gear handle with gear up and with gear down.  



Mark Bitterlich



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

One error in my posting.  



The 50 and the 52 both fill the emergency and main bottles from the

external fill port.  



Where they differ is when the engine is running.   



The 50 fills both emergency and main tanks from the engine air

compressor. 



The 52 only fills the MAIN air bottle from the engine air compressor.  



I always manage to screw that up somehow... sorry. 



Mark

--

gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Thanks for all the help Dennis.  We followed your advice and the gear

operates perfectly. It appears that the problem was self induced for I

cannot remember turning the air valve on yesterday.  It is a bit insidious

because the pressure indicates all is OK, the engine starts and the brakes

work.. even with the air off. So within the space of 24 hours or so, with

the help of this forum, we solved the problem, figured out who/what caused

it and have taken some measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.  I

look forward to seeing you in August when you come to Owen Sound to give us

a ground school on the Yak 50.  I think this is the only way to fly this

beautiful airplane with confidence.  It was a good day and while we had it

on jacks we changed the tires ... another learning experience.   Gord



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Sorry for the comment about turning the air on as a cause of a floppy gear lever and a gear hanging after putting G on the aircraft. I was clearing my email by going from the oldest to the newest after being off grid for the Holliday. 

You are absolutely right. She will get you airborne before you figure out that you forgot to turn the  system air knob counter clock to open it. Since the "parrot hooks" are spring loaded not compressed air driven like the 52 the gear are keep retracted by air pressure the up shuttle cock on the actuators. 

Nothing like having you IP giving you your checkout turn the air off as you are picking your new to you 50 up in Arkansas. I'm laughing now 5 years later but that ditch on the other side of the runway was looking awfully menacing with fading brakes on T.O. Just proved to me that once again an incident or an accident is composed of a series of small events that lead to the final big event.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On May 29, 2012, at 8:17 PM, "gord" <gord(at)thedampub.ca> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Thanks for all the help Dennis.  We followed your advice and the gear

 operates perfectly. It appears that the problem was self induced for I

 cannot remember turning the air valve on yesterday.  It is a bit insidious

 because the pressure indicates all is OK, the engine starts and the brakes

 work.. even with the air off. So within the space of 24 hours or so, with

 the help of this forum, we solved the problem, figured out who/what caused

 it and have taken some measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.  I

 look forward to seeing you in August when you come to Owen Sound to give us

 a ground school on the Yak 50.  I think this is the only way to fly this

 beautiful airplane with confidence.  It was a good day and while we had it

 on jacks we changed the tires ... another learning experience.   Gord

 

 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:31 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Hi Gord,

Glad everything worked out for you.



A pre-takeoff checklist with verbal responses like 'Confirm Mags to 

off', Verbal Response "Mags off"; 'Confirm Brakes Set', Verbal Response, 

"Brakes SET"  'Confirm Main Air On', Verbal Response, "Main Air ON", 

etc., etc., is the best way to prevent this from happening again.



Regarding the training class, it looks like we may have to push it out 

toward the end of August due to other commitments.  Like the weekend of 

the 26th and 27th with me arriving the evening of the 25th.  Check your 

schedule and see if that would work for you and let me know.



Best regards,

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/29/2012 8:17 PM, gord wrote:

[quote] 



 Thanks for all the help Dennis.  We followed your advice and the gear

 operates perfectly. It appears that the problem was self induced for I

 cannot remember turning the air valve on yesterday.  It is a bit insidious

 because the pressure indicates all is OK, the engine starts and the brakes

 work.. even with the air off. So within the space of 24 hours or so, with

 the help of this forum, we solved the problem, figured out who/what caused

 it and have taken some measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.  I

 look forward to seeing you in August when you come to Owen Sound to give us

 a ground school on the Yak 50.  I think this is the only way to fly this

 beautiful airplane with confidence.  It was a good day and while we had it

 on jacks we changed the tires ... another learning experience.   Gord



 --

gord(at)thedampub.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Dennis



Snowballs are so easy to build. We probably all remember the Florida

Everglades L1011 and the swampy landing over a burnt out light bulb.



Yes one small error is usually the cause of major problems.  I remember one

old grouch I used to fly with as a DC-9 co-pilot way back when. He had some

quirks that were not so bad in a safety sense.  I always prayed the flight

attendant would not come in the cockpit during the initial cockpit check.

On one occasion it happened....over half way through the check.  " Good

morning and what would your beverage of choice be on this bright and sunny

day?" she said. Grouch stopped the check, frowned, looked at me and gave me

the T sign, one finger on top of the other.  I said  "The Captain will have

tea and I will have a coffee thank you.  She left and Grouch said. "Damn I

wish they wouldn't do that!!!"  So we went back and started the check from

scratch again.



Looks like it is time for me to adopt this discipline.



Cheers,



Gord



--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:07 am Post subject: Gear problem Yak 50

Outstanding story Gord and most definitely appropriate.



Just because it is a much less complex airplane than say the DC9, it 

doesn't mean there shouldn't be a preflight or pre start checklist.  As 

the story goes, just because it is a more simple airplane to fly doesn't 

mean it can't kill you just as easily as a jet can.  That's why we all 

were taught to use checklists regardless of what airplane we are 

flying.  I too have become complacent sometimes too.  But we all learn 

from our mistakes.  I know I do for sure.....even at my age.  



Best regards,

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/30/2012 7:28 AM, gord wrote:

[quote] 



 Dennis



 Snowballs are so easy to build. We probably all remember the Florida

 Everglades L1011 and the swampy landing over a burnt out light bulb.



 Yes one small error is usually the cause of major problems.  I remember one

 old grouch I used to fly with as a DC-9 co-pilot way back when. He had some

 quirks that were not so bad in a safety sense.  I always prayed the flight

 attendant would not come in the cockpit during the initial cockpit check.

 On one occasion it happened....over half way through the check.  " Good

 morning and what would your beverage of choice be on this bright and sunny

 day?" she said. Grouch stopped the check, frowned, looked at me and gave me

 the T sign, one finger on top of the other.  I said  "The Captain will have

 tea and I will have a coffee thank you.  She left and Grouch said. "Damn I

 wish they wouldn't do that!!!"  So we went back and started the check from

 scratch again.



 Looks like it is time for me to adopt this discipline.



 Cheers,



 Gord



 --

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