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Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Not sure what I mentioned and what I didn't on the list.



I did have this write-up from the fall:

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20110819/index.html



I had a very minor oil leak.  You could see oil spots that

were so small, they were just pinprick in size on the windshield.

They ONLY were on the co-pilot side.  Back then, I also had some

oil inside my ring gear area, and dripping down hanging from the

starter and under my engine a bit.



After I did some crankshaft seal work, I have had a constant

bit of oil that still gets on my windshield.  I did a write-up

now for that too, since I FINALLY, after many many days

and hours and dollars, found the culprit!



http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20120609/index.html

Hopefully that will help someone else with a leak.  I know talking

with Scott, he had identical symptoms within the first 50 hours

of operation.



Tim

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Tim,

    Thanks for the write up, I too fell victim to over servicing the first time around.  It's easy to do.



Just out of curiosity, what is the shop charging you to replace the seals?



Thanks,

Marcus

do not archive



On Jun 12, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Tim Olson wrote:






Not sure what I mentioned and what I didn't on the list.



I did have this write-up from the fall:

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20110819/index.html



I had a very minor oil leak.  You could see oil spots that

were so small, they were just pinprick in size on the windshield.

They ONLY were on the co-pilot side.  Back then, I also had some

oil inside my ring gear area, and dripping down hanging from the

starter and under my engine a bit.



After I did some crankshaft seal work, I have had a constant

bit of oil that still gets on my windshield.  I did a write-up

now for that too, since I FINALLY, after many many days

and hours and dollars, found the culprit!



http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20120609/index.html

Hopefully that will help someone else with a leak.  I know talking

with Scott, he had identical symptoms within the first 50 hours

of operation.



Tim

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

I don't get the bill for a couple days yet, but, it sounds like

a good ballpark is maybe $500.  A couple of the seals are

about $90 each from the sounds of it.  So that's not too horrible

considering the trip I'm about to head on...I want things

PERFECT.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive



On 6/12/2012 4:34 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Tim,

      Thanks for the write up, I too fell victim to over servicing the first time around.  It's easy to do.



 Just out of curiosity, what is the shop charging you to replace the seals?



 Thanks,

 Marcus

 do not archive



 On Jun 12, 2012, at 4:57 PM, Tim Olson wrote:



 



 Not sure what I mentioned and what I didn't on the list.



 I did have this write-up from the fall:

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20110819/index.html



 I had a very minor oil leak.  You could see oil spots that

 were so small, they were just pinprick in size on the windshield.

 They ONLY were on the co-pilot side.  Back then, I also had some

 oil inside my ring gear area, and dripping down hanging from the

 starter and under my engine a bit.



 After I did some crankshaft seal work, I have had a constant

 bit of oil that still gets on my windshield.  I did a write-up

 now for that too, since I FINALLY, after many many days

 and hours and dollars, found the culprit!



 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20120609/index.html

 Hopefully that will help someone else with a leak.  I know talking

 with Scott, he had identical symptoms within the first 50 hours

 of operation.



 Tim

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

stall the engine.

Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

functioning.

Kelly



On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

tomrv4(at)me.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Agree with Kelly...



I fly a Cirrus, which has a single power lever controlling both throttle and prop. Therefore the prop never gets cycled on the ground. To the best of my knowledge, the props on Cirrus planes do not leak any more than the standard setup...



Tom



On Jun 13, 2012, at 07:48 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

 engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

 governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

 sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

 normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

 cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

 stall the engine.

 Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

 for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

 functioning.

 Kelly

 

 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 >

 > Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.

 >

 > --------

 > Bob Turner

 > RV-10 QB

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >ta-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.ma://forums.matronics.com" data-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">httf="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" data-mce-href="http://www.ma==========

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

 	  Kelly McMullen wrote: 	
		  Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

stall the engine.

Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

functioning.

Kelly



On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB



 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481



	
	




Kelly's advice is exactly the advice I got from Maxwell Aircraft Service in Minneapolis when they overhauled the prop on my Bonanza a few years ago.

They have been overhauling propellers for 45 years and Mr. Maxwell told me he could hear money coming in to his cash register whenever he heard someone deep cycling the prop two, three, or more times before takeoff.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

This write up was very helpful... My new Hartzell prop had been in the box waiting to be installed for several years. When I took it out, it was obvious that the factory grease had separated as there was oil inside the spinner. I re-greased the prop per the manual and hung it... Several days later there was a thin sheen of oil coming down the inside of one blade. I don't think I over greased, but it's possible. Sounds like a call to Hartzell is in order.



Thanks,

Jay

at the airport finally

drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Kelly;

I usually check the prop each time as part of my checklist.  I just 

listen for the slight drop and then go back to fine pitch.   You say it 

is not good for the engine or the prop.  Why???  I can understand 

possibly strain on the bearings maybe,  but in less than two minutes, 

I'm asking  the engine for full power for  takeoff.   I'm trying to 

figure out if this is one of those "opinions" or what are the facts 

behind this issue.

Thanks

Dr Fred.

On 6/13/2012 7:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

 engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

 governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

 sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

 normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

 cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

 stall the engine.

 Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

 for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

 functioning.

 Kelly

 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>  wrote:

> 

>

> Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.

>

> --------

> Bob Turner

> RV-10 QB

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

>

>

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

I've always cycled it fairly aggressively just to see if I can get oil on the windscreen or the top of the cowling.  I figure that if I'm going to blow a seal or discover a leak, I'd rather discover it before my wheels leave the ground.

 

I'm not saying I'm trying to bog the engine down and abusing it, but I'm doing more than simply looking for a slight drop.



Phil





On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Fred Williams, M.D. <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com (drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com (drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com)>

  

 Kelly;

 

 I usually check the prop each time as part of my checklist.  I just listen for the slight drop and then go back to fine pitch.   You say it is not good for the engine or the prop.  Why???  I can understand possibly strain on the bearings maybe,  but in less than two minutes, I'm asking  the engine for full power for  takeoff.   I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those "opinions" or what are the facts behind this issue.

  

 Thanks

 

 Dr Fred.

 

 

 On 6/13/2012 7:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   -->  RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

 engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

 governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

 sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

 normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

 cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

 stall the engine.

 Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

 for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

 functioning.

 Kelly

 

 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   -->  RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.

  

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 ====================================

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 [b]

taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  After checking mags at 1800 rpm, I reduce rpm to 1400 for the prop check.  A&Ps I talk to suggested it. Anyone else doing that?

  

 Roger

 [quote]   ---

Gordon Anderson

Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

And I've always cycled 2 or 3 times under the impression it was intended to get warm oil into the propshaft and increase the reaction speed of the governor / prop.  This certainly is the case on a cold Rotax - rpm recovery is much better after the 3rd cycle than the first - but I can't speak for other engines.  



Gordon



On Jun 13, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Phillip Perry wrote:

[quote]I've always cycled it fairly aggressively just to see if I can get oil on the windscreen or the top of the cowling.  I figure that if I'm going to blow a seal or discover a leak, I'd rather discover it before my wheels leave the ground.

 

I'm not saying I'm trying to bog the engine down and abusing it, but I'm doing more than simply looking for a slight drop.



Phil





On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Fred Williams, M.D. <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com (drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com (drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com)>

  

 Kelly;

 

 I usually check the prop each time as part of my checklist.  I just listen for the slight drop and then go back to fine pitch.   You say it is not good for the engine or the prop.  Why???  I can understand possibly strain on the bearings maybe,  but in less than two minutes, I'm asking  the engine for full power for  takeoff.   I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those "opinions" or what are the facts behind this issue.

  

 Thanks

 

 Dr Fred.

 

 

 On 6/13/2012 7:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   -->  RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

 engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

 governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

 sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

 normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

 cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

 stall the engine.

 Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

 for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

 functioning.

 Kelly

 

 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   -->  RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner"<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.

  

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 ====================================

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 

	
[b]

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

I think the key is to cycle the prop gently. I hear pilots in the run up area doing these fast deep cycles and can only wonder how those belts are feeling during the cycle. No  need to be so aggressive. A slow cycle or several slow cycles accomplishes the same thing but has to be easier on all the moving parts. 

  

Robin 

    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley

 Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:53 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved) 

 

 

    

After checking mags at 1800 rpm, I reduce rpm to 1400 for the prop check. A&Ps I talk to suggested it. Anyone else doing that? 

  

  

  

Roger 

 [quote]  

---

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

I think cycling is done to flush the oil sitting the the prop to reduce sludge but I may be wrong.



Do not archive.

Rob

 

 

On Jun 13, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>



Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

stall the engine.

Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

functioning.

Kelly



On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>



Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring. McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help keep O rings seated.



--------

Bob Turner

RV-10 QB





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

To clarify: McCauley suggested the extra prop cycling to try to get the O rings to seat, but they did not suggest deep cycling - just enough to move the O rings a bit.



So far on the 10 I have not had grease issues, and on runup I put the prop back in as soon as I hear any RPM drop. But I just did my first prop maintenance. Hopefully I didn't put in too much grease. I pumped until I saw it exiting out the open hole. It took about what was suggested, as I recall, in terms of the number of pumps on the grease gun.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

The issue is the forces the pitch change mechanism puts on the prop

and the engine bearings when the engine is not a full power and has no

air moving through it. Similar to a full power run up with twisting

forces added to the prop blades. On a Lycoming flat 4 or 6 cylinder,

cycling the prop only serves one purpose..to show that the pitch

change mechanism is working. Doing that as gently as possible reduces

the forces involved. Checking the mechanism multiple times a day

accomplishes nothing. Checking it first flight of the morning might

add a little confidence, but really isn't necessary. Nothing bad is

going to happen if the prop stays in fine pitch, that you can't

correct once at a safe altitude to return to the field.

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Fred Williams, M.D.

<drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>

 Kelly;

 I usually check the prop each time as part of my checklist.  I just listen

 for the slight drop and then go back to fine pitch.   You say it is not good

 for the engine or the prop.  Why???  I can understand possibly strain on the

 bearings maybe,  but in less than two minutes, I'm asking  the engine for

 full power for  takeoff.   I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those

 "opinions" or what are the facts behind this issue.

 Thanks

 Dr Fred.

 On 6/13/2012 7:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

>

> 

>

> Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

> engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

> governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

> sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

> normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

> cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

> stall the engine.

> Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

> for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

> functioning.

> Kelly

>

> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>

>  wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too

>> long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they

>> didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring.

>> McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help

>> keep O rings seated.

>>

>> --------

>> Bob Turner

>> RV-10 QB

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Read this topic online here:

>>

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Update: I got the prop back and learned a few things while I talked to 

them.  First, they do NOT recommend 100 hour greasings.  At most you'd 

want to do it annually, but then make SURE to stick to the 1oz 

recommendation and also use safety wire on the opposite zerk to dig out 

any pasted grease so it comes out easily.  In fact, there is a saying 

that "if it ain't leaking, don't grease it" which makes some sense now 

that I've seen a cutaway view.  Inside there, you don't have lots of 

fast rolling bearings...just bearings that let you rotate the prop.  The 

grease just lubes that area and keeps it from rusting.  So, it's 

unlikely to wear out the grease very fast, and if it isn't leaking it's 

probably going to last many many years.  They feel that although they 

wouldn't recommend it, you could run to TBO on the grease that's in 

there IF it doesn't leak out.  So, don't overgrease for sure...it's not 

like wheel bearings that need to be done real often.  Also, apparently 

the original seals from Hartzell were "quad" (square) seals, and those 

leaked a lot.  The prop shop actually had some better seals made up at 

one time that were round and made of something else.  Hartzell also

changed seals and had even worse leak issues.  Not all that long ago, 

Hartzell finally updated their seals once again to some nice silicone

material that lasts longer and seals better.  So if you get new seals

it will likely be better than original if you have the older seals of

other types.

With all of this done, I got the prop on and did a test flight and my 

leak problem is definitely gone!

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 6/13/2012 5:03 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 The issue is the forces the pitch change mechanism puts on the prop

 and the engine bearings when the engine is not a full power and has no

 air moving through it. Similar to a full power run up with twisting

 forces added to the prop blades. On a Lycoming flat 4 or 6 cylinder,

 cycling the prop only serves one purpose..to show that the pitch

 change mechanism is working. Doing that as gently as possible reduces

 the forces involved. Checking the mechanism multiple times a day

 accomplishes nothing. Checking it first flight of the morning might

 add a little confidence, but really isn't necessary. Nothing bad is

 going to happen if the prop stays in fine pitch, that you can't

 correct once at a safe altitude to return to the field.

 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Fred Williams, M.D.

 <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:

> 

> <drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.com>

>

> Kelly;

>

> I usually check the prop each time as part of my checklist.  I just listen

> for the slight drop and then go back to fine pitch.   You say it is not good

> for the engine or the prop.  Why???  I can understand possibly strain on the

> bearings maybe,  but in less than two minutes, I'm asking  the engine for

> full power for  takeoff.   I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those

> "opinions" or what are the facts behind this issue.

>

> Thanks

>

> Dr Fred.

> On 6/13/2012 7:48 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> Keep in mind that cycling a prop is NOT good for the prop or the

>> engine. Its only purpose is to verify that the prop control and

>> governor are operational, and a 100-200 rpm drop is more than

>> sufficient for that purpose. The blades will get rotated as part of

>> normal take-off and climb. I cringe every time I hear pilots deep

>> cycling props, as though they want to see if full coarse pitch can

>> stall the engine.

>> Latest thinking is to only cycle the prop if the plane hasn't flown

>> for awhile, and then just a small drop to verify the system is

>> functioning.

>> Kelly

>>

>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Bob Turner<bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>

>>   wrote:

>>>

>>> 

>>>

>>> Some years ago our 182 (McCauley prop) started throwing grease, not too

>>> long after overhaul. Shop took it apart and put it back together, said they

>>> didn't find anything wrong. But the grease went away. Maybe a dirty O ring.

>>> McCauley suggested we cycle the prop 4 or 5 times during run ups to help

>>> keep O rings seated.

>>>

>>> --------

>>> Bob Turner

>>> RV-10 QB

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>

>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375481#375481

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Tim, that is pretty much exactly what Maxwell Propeller in Minneapolis told me when they overhauled the propeller on my old Bonanza. In fact, that was a Beechcraft propeller (no longer produced) and Maxwell actually took the grease zirks off and plugged them while performing the overhaul, saying there was no need to ever grease the Beechcraft propellers for the reasons you mention. Those old Beechcraft props were excellent. IIRC, there were zero AD's on a propeller that had been in service for several decades. They don't make em like that any more!

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Yeah, it was Maxwell that I went to too.  They have so many props in the shop that I know I can trust their advice. Good folks.  Due to my time pressure, which caused the wrong person to have to calculate my bill, I almost paid double....but I noticed something wrong and they checked it out.  Ended up paying $800 but they repainted it too so it looks good and they alodined the wear pits and cleaned them up.  I shouldn't have pushed the timeline which would have allowed the normal billing person to do it.  I'm just glad it's good to go.

Tim

On Jun 16, 2012, at 4:11 PM, "dmaib(at)me.com" <dmaib(at)me.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Tim, that is pretty much exactly what Maxwell Propeller in Minneapolis told me when they overhauled the propeller on my old Bonanza. In fact, that was a Beechcraft propeller (no longer produced) and Maxwell actually took the grease zirks off and plugged them while performing the overhaul, saying there was no need to ever grease the Beechcraft propellers for the reasons you mention. Those old Beechcraft props were excellent. IIRC, there were zero AD's on a propeller that had been in service for several decades. They don't make em like that any more!

 

 --------

 David Maib

 RV-10 #40559

 Transition Trainer

 New Smyrna Beach, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375816#375816

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Mystery Oil Leak (solved)

Tim, David,



Thanks for posting this useful information. My previous prop was a McCauley on a 182 and it didn't have any zerk fittings, so the Hartzel maintenance instructions seemed like a bit of overkill.



No grease next year unless it's leaking!



Bob

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

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