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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Not RV related. Please delete if not interested.



Interesting firearm fact:

2011 Germany 250,000 police officers / 81 Million Population

German police shot their firearms a total of 85 times in 2011. 49 Warning shots, 36 with intent to hit suspect.



2012 Los Angeles

NYPD fired 84 rounds at one suspect

LAPD fired 90 rounds at one suspect.



Robin

Do Not Archive



Links if interested:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/11/11662345-german-police-fired-just-85-bullets-total-in-2011?lite 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTjwcyvzqvg

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/04/case-of-man-shot-at-90-times-on-freeway-tragic-lapd-says.html

Neal.George(at)hurlburt.a
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Robin - 



What was the hit rate?

Of the 36 / 84 / 90 rounds fired, how many found their mark?



 neal



--

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Um I don't know where this is going but from an outsider looking in we here

in Australia are always amazed to see the 

The willingness of people in the US to resort a gun to protect their rights.

If you have a look a the stats for the rest of

The world it puts the US on par with a lot of countries one would not

normally associate the USA with?



I don't believe that Australia can claim any moral higher ground either. I

think we should all look to a country like Japan

Where to use a gun in a crime will result in a min 1 to 10 year jail term

and hand guns and any automatic guns are just not allowed.



My 2 cents worth 

Cheers

John MacCallum

Builder #41016

VH-DUU



--

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I am 68; too young to die and too old to  survive a beating. I would not survive in a conflict with the Trayvons of the  world (18, 6' 2" and a muscular 190 pounds). Therefore I have both training and  permit to carry a weapon; I may lose my life in a confrontation but do not  intend to give up willingly. I don't look for trouble and I believe "a soft  answer turns away wrath" BUT if and when an officer asks "what are you afraid  of?". "Not a damn thing."



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

The reason for a firearm in Alaska has nothing to do with protecting 

rights (well, maybe a little). It is all about having something to 

protect yourself from a bear that likes the smell of food in your plane, 

and the ability to supplement your diet for the weeks you may wait for 

search and rescue to locate and reach your unintended landing location.



On 6/16/2012 2:44 PM, John MacCallum wrote:

[quote] 



 Um I don't know where this is going but from an outsider looking in we here

 in Australia are always amazed to see the

 The willingness of people in the US to resort a gun to protect their rights.

 If you have a look a the stats for the rest of

 The world it puts the US on par with a lot of countries one would not

 normally associate the USA with?



 I don't believe that Australia can claim any moral higher ground either. I

 think we should all look to a country like Japan

 Where to use a gun in a crime will result in a min 1 to 10 year jail term

 and hand guns and any automatic guns are just not allowed.



 My 2 cents worth 

 Cheers

 John MacCallum

 Builder #41016

 VH-DUU



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

When I went to AK I borrowed a shotgun and bought some 00 buckshot shells. I've always wondered if this would have discouraged a bear, or if it just would have made him angrier?



Bob

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Since I couldn't bring my 44mag in to Canada, I took a crash course in "Kung fu against bears" and as a backup I brought bear spray.  With the large group there's not any real reason I'll have to hunt or go for an extended stay on the ground.  If I were traveling alone or in a small group I'd have to get a compact shotgun.  It really is a shame that you can't even bring a cased, locked, and secured handgun in while you transit the country....a 44mag really would be a good size to carry for emergencies up there.  Mine is a medium length barrel that is long enough to hunt big game with but short enough to backpack with.  As a gun owner I'm understanding to some of the feelings of those who have reservations about handguns but I do feel that they have their place and for me, traveling across the Yukon just seems like the perfect place, so it's sad that they're restricted.  I run the middle of the road....I think carrying should be legal, but if you carry and go LOOKING for trouble, the punishment for you should be very severe.  Responsibility...   We accept it as pilots all the time.  If only you could say the same for the general population.

Anyway, probably getting a bit political for the list so we may want to get back to airplanes.  The topic is related to Alaska but we don't need to argue the nations gun control laws or lack thereof.  To those things most people already have their own solid opinion.  I prefer to stay in the middle.

Tim

On Jun 16, 2012, at 7:47 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

[quote] 

 The reason for a firearm in Alaska has nothing to do with protecting rights (well, maybe a little). It is all about having something to protect yourself from a bear that likes the smell of food in your plane, and the ability to supplement your diet for the weeks you may wait for search and rescue to locate and reach your unintended landing location.

 On 6/16/2012 2:44 PM, John MacCallum wrote:

> 

> 

> Um I don't know where this is going but from an outsider looking in we here

> in Australia are always amazed to see the

> The willingness of people in the US to resort a gun to protect their rights.

> If you have a look a the stats for the rest of

> The world it puts the US on par with a lot of countries one would not

> normally associate the USA with?

> 

> I don't believe that Australia can claim any moral higher ground either. I

> think we should all look to a country like Japan

> Where to use a gun in a crime will result in a min 1 to 10 year jail term

> and hand guns and any automatic guns are just not allowed.

> 

> My 2 cents worth 

> 

> 

> Cheers

> John MacCallum

> Builder #41016

> VH-DUU

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> --

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I concur with the 44; have a SW629, but the need for protection in AK is

certainly more from the wildlife rather that the two legged critters there.

Question is would you rather have a shotgun with 00 or "play dead" in the

fetal position. After all you are fresh meat for the bears. Also pilots

should carry SPOT or PLB for assistance there.



--

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I always fly with a handgun if I'm not going to some controlled airport.  



It's all about survival in the bush.  But I do carry one in the city too and that is for personal defense.  And Houston is so full of illegals and you need one here.  Just watch the news and see how many murders are reported each day right here. 



I've been targeted before a few times and good situational awareness combined with quick thinking got me out of it.    But that's enough about life in the southern boarder of the US. 



In the plane, I'll happily carry a handgun and use it to keep the family fed.  There is a lot of remote country out there.



Tim you should watch IAWOODSMAN on YouTube.  Good stuff and you will appreciate (and feel more comfortable) having seen some of his training videos.  



He was an instructor at the USAF Survival School.   It is known as one of the best survival programs out there.  



Phil



Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:30 PM, "DLM" <dlm34077(at)q.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 I concur with the 44; have a SW629, but the need for protection in AK is

 certainly more from the wildlife rather that the two legged critters there.

 Question is would you rather have a shotgun with 00 or "play dead" in the

 fetal position. After all you are fresh meat for the bears. Also pilots

 should carry SPOT or PLB for assistance there.

 

 --

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

You are better off carrying a pork chop.  



That'll feed him long enough to give you a two step head start.  



Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 16, 2012, at 8:40 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 When I went to AK I borrowed a shotgun and bought some 00 buckshot shells. I've always wondered if this would have discouraged a bear, or if it just would have made him angrier?

 

 Bob

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375856#375856

jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

On the tv show "Alaska State Troopers", all they carry for bears is a shotgun. I think I'd alternate 00 buck with slugs.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: philperry9@gmail.com

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 07:39:54 -0500

 To: rv10-list@matronics.com

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Phil Perry <philperry9@gmail.com>

 

 You are better off carrying a pork chop.  

 

 That'll feed him long enough to give you a two step head start.  :)

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On Jun 16, 2012, at 8:40 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner@alum.rpi.edu>

 > 

 > When I went to AK I borrowed a shotgun and bought some 00 buckshot shells. I've always wondered if this would have discouraged a bear, or if it just would have made him angrier?

 > 

 > Bob

 > 

 > --------

 > Bob Turner

 > RV-10 QB

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Read this topic online here:

 > 

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375856#375856

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 

 

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  [quote][b]

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:14 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves from wild animals

if they have a licence for the gun and

a reason to have the gun. If I was going bush in Alaska for days on end I

would probably want a gun as well! I would not 

live off the native wildlife as a matter of choice but I can see where you

may have too!



John MacCallum

VH-DUU

RV 10 # 41016





--

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

That’s a fairly common statement from a lot of people. I have the same concern but the likely hood of it happening is very remote!

 

Trayvon was 17 years old and obviously not real smart since he took a walk through a Gated community full of people that were  concerned with holding onto their

Worldly possessions and paranoid as well!  Otherwise they would not have been living in a gated community in  the first place.

If someone jumps on you without identifying themselves to you,  and whom is obviously not a police officer  why would you not resist them?

 

Also

 

The autopsy report stated he was 5 feet, 11 inches and weighed 158 pounds.

 

And I prefer to  leave the bible out of things  because it too often is used to justify illogical behavior. 

 

 

Cheers

 

John MacCallum

VH-DUU

RV 10 # 41016

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of DLM

Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2012 10:31 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

 

I am 68; too young to die and too old to survive a beating. I would not survive in a conflict with the Trayvons of the world (18, 6' 2" and a muscular 190 pounds). Therefore I have both training and permit to carry a weapon; I may lose my life in a confrontation but do not intend to give up willingly. I don't look for trouble and I believe "a soft answer turns away wrath" BUT if and when an officer asks "what are you afraid of?". "Not a damn thing."



--

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

A world without violence would be great but until that time I  will "speak softly and carry a big stick". I prefer to wait for the trial facts  in Florida as our media has an agenda. For example, they have virtually ignored  the attack by a mob of Trayvons on a family at the Wisconsin State Fair  before the media hype of the Florida incident and  afterwards virtually ignored another similar mob attack on two  of their own (reporters) in Virginia. Several other attacks have barely made any  news here so would probably not even be reported in OZ. You won't see it in our  media but Google the city of "de trois" sometime. Look at the pictures and  determine whether you would go there armed or unarmed or at  all.

  

 Lest you think I am one of the isolated Americans, I traveled  widely in Europe and Asia and worked and lived for 16 years in the Middle East.  But for the US this communication would probably be in German or Japanese. If  you like, we can take the discussion off the list since this hardly touches our  RV10s. IIRC your comment changed this thread from flying to Alaska.to our  culture.

  

 fiy aman Allah



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John  MacCallum

Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:26 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Alaska (was  bahamas)

 

  

That’s  a fairly common statement from a lot of people. I have the same concern but the  likely hood of it happening is very remote! 

  

Trayvon  was 17 years old and obviously not real smart since he took a walk through a  Gated community full of people that were  concerned with holding onto  their 

Worldly  possessions and paranoid as well!  Otherwise they would not have been  living in a gated community in  the first place. 

If  someone jumps on you without identifying themselves to you,  and whom is  obviously not a police officer  why would you not resist  them? 

  

Also 

  

The autopsy report  stated he was 5 feet, 11 inches and weighed 158 pounds. 

  

And I prefer to   leave the bible out of things  because it too often is used to justify  illogical behavior.  

  

  

Cheers 

  

John  MacCallum 

VH-DUU 

RV  10 # 41016 

  

  

  

  

  

  

    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)]  On Behalf Of DLM

Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2012 10:31  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  RE: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)



 

  

I am 68; too young  to die and too old to survive a beating. I would not survive in a conflict with  the Trayvons of the world (18, 6' 2" and a muscular 190 pounds). Therefore I  have both training and permit to carry a weapon; I may lose my life in a  confrontation but do not intend to give up willingly. I don't look for trouble  and I believe "a soft answer turns away wrath" BUT if and when an officer asks  "what are you afraid of?". "Not a damn thing."



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I know it is difficult for those in other cultures to comprehend, but

the US does not require a license to own or carry a gun, unless you

want to carry it concealed. While guns in recent years are registered

when purchased from a dealer, there is no accounting for guns that

existed from around 50 or more years ago, and no tracking of private

sales of guns. We have this little artifact of history, that guns

enabled our country to escape from a tyrannical (perhaps alleged)

king. So a right was established in our constitution allowing us to

own and bear arms. Which means that we can mount a gun rack in or

outside our RV-10s if that is our desire. But such modifications slow

down the build process. 



On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:13 AM, John MacCallum

<john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves from wild animals

 if they have a licence for the gun and

 a reason to have the gun. If I was going bush in Alaska for days on end I

 would probably want a gun as well! I would not

 live off the native wildlife as a matter of choice but I can see where you

 may have too!



 John MacCallum

 VH-DUU

 RV 10 # 41016


	


 	  Quote:

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

I have a problem with those that flaunt their guns in public. Just because you can care a weapon to a rally to see the president speak or walk down the middle of a subdivision carrying an AR-15, that doesn't mean that is prudent to do so. Like a lot of things in life.....you have to use common sense. If you feel the need to carry, then get the permit to do so like all the rest of us!

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:35:46 -0700

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

 From: apilot2(at)gmail.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

 I know it is difficult for those in other cultures to comprehend, but

 the US does not require a license to own or carry a gun, unless you

 want to carry it concealed. While guns in recent years are registered

 when purchased from a dealer, there is no accounting for guns that

 existed from around 50 or more years ago, and no tracking of private

 sales of guns. We have this little artifact of history, that guns

 enabled our country to escape from a tyrannical (perhaps alleged)

 king. So a right was established in our constitution allowing us to

 own and bear arms. Which means that we can mount a gun rack in or

 outside our RV-10s if that is our desire. But such modifications slow

 down the build process. 

 On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:13 AM, John MacCallum

 <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com> wrote:

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com>

 >

 > I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves from wild animals

 > if they have a licence for the gun and

 > a reason to have the gun. If I was going bush in Alaska for days on end I

 > would probably want a gun as well! I would not

 > live off the native wildlife as a matter of choice but I can see where you

 > may have too!

 >

 > John MacCallum

 > VH-DUU

 > RV 10 # 41016

 >

 & Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

&gt========================

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

It certainly does slow the build process  but not as much as a permanent mount and an approriate gun sight for those pesky  Cessnas in the pattern.

"switchin to  guns"  

  

 



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

They didn't have those in the stock Van's optional kits when you     built?   

     On 6/18/2012 11:40 AM, DLM wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                                     

It certainly does             slow the build process but not as much as a permanent mount             and an approriate gun sight for those pesky Cessnas in the             pattern.

           "switchin to guns"        

       

     	
          

No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

    [quote][b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Yep we have idiots here as well, actually I’m beginning to think slightly more per capita than you guys.

There is certainly no mistaking the contribution of the US in the Pacific and Europe, which being keenly interested in the history of both world wars, I always

Point out to young people.

In the US the raw stats show that violent crimes are split roughly even between assaults with and without weapons and if a weapon is used it usually involves

a gun. If you look at countries that have non existent gun control the numbers go up dramatically. 

 

If you look at countries that have very tight gun control the Stats reflect a lot lower violent crime rate.  Interestingly the USA’s crime rate is around twice

That of Australia and Australia has no reason to be proud either.

 

As for culture I believe it is non existent here in Australia.  Yep I agree about getting back to RV10s.

 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM

Sent: Monday, 18 June 2012 11:00 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

 

A world without violence would be great but until that time I will "speak softly and carry a big stick". I prefer to wait for the trial facts in Florida as our media has an agenda. For example, they have virtually ignored the attack by a mob of Trayvons on a family at the Wisconsin State Fair before the media hype of the Florida incident and afterwards virtually ignored another similar mob attack on two of their own (reporters) in Virginia. Several other attacks have barely made any news here so would probably not even be reported in OZ. You won't see it in our media but Google the city of "de trois" sometime. Look at the pictures and determine whether you would go there armed or unarmed or at all.

 

Lest you think I am one of the isolated Americans, I traveled widely in Europe and Asia and worked and lived for 16 years in the Middle East. But for the US this communication would probably be in German or Japanese. If you like, we can take the discussion off the list since this hardly touches our RV10s. IIRC your comment changed this thread from flying to Alaska.to our culture.

 

fiy aman Allah

 



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John MacCallum

Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:26 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

That’s a fairly common statement from a lot of people. I have the same concern but the likely hood of it happening is very remote!

 

Trayvon was 17 years old and obviously not real smart since he took a walk through a Gated community full of people that were  concerned with holding onto their

Worldly possessions and paranoid as well!  Otherwise they would not have been living in a gated community in  the first place.

If someone jumps on you without identifying themselves to you,  and whom is obviously not a police officer  why would you not resist them?

 

Also

 

The autopsy report stated he was 5 feet, 11 inches and weighed 158 pounds.

 

And I prefer to  leave the bible out of things  because it too often is used to justify illogical behavior. 

 

 

Cheers

 

John MacCallum

VH-DUU

RV 10 # 41016

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of DLM

Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2012 10:31 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Re: Alaska (was bahamas)

 

I am 68; too young to die and too old to survive a beating. I would not survive in a conflict with the Trayvons of the world (18, 6' 2" and a muscular 190 pounds). Therefore I have both training and permit to carry a weapon; I may lose my life in a confrontation but do not intend to give up willingly. I don't look for trouble and I believe "a soft answer turns away wrath" BUT if and when an officer asks "what are you afraid of?". "Not a damn thing."



--

john.maccallum(at)bigpond
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: Alaska (was bahamas)

Yep those bloody poms are the cause of all of our problems!



I reckon a ADEN Rotary canon would make a good mod if it was mounted on a

pod and synchronised to the Prop.



--

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