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carlmeek(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Carl:
That could be a tight strip. 450 M = 1476 Ft. Have you worked out Vr = Rotation Speed and Vrto = Rejected TakeOff speed? You did not say which Europa you have. But, isn't the Jabiru a heavier engine than the Rotax? And they give a takeoff roll of 590 Ft = 180 M which is 1/3 your runway length. That is 40% of your runway IF you start at the very end (not counting the length of your plane).
AND - AND - That is on a STANDARD TEMP DAY. Runways get shorter on hot days. So, YES, I would highly consider a CS prop. And your cruse speed would go up also. Learning to fly a CS prop is only a few hours of training and a lot of reading.
Barry
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)>
I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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carlmeek(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Hi Barry,
I've been routinely flying out of this strip for over 220 flight hours, so I'm pretty familiar with it's operation and challenges. It makes accurate landings essential!
From a weight perspective – Jabiru weighs 81kgs including exhaust and all peripherals. Rotax weighs 75.5kgs installed – so not much difference.
Hot days? In England? We don't have any of those!
Rejected takeoff speed is more of an instant decision. Go to full power. If anything is wrong, immediately shut down. There is no time for consideration – its pretty much all or nothing.
I am trying to find out some facts before I spend the money of what sort of improvement I can expect. Any suggestions how I can get figures or statements from others?
Regards,
-Carl.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58
To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Carl:
That could be a tight strip. 450 M = 1476 Ft. Have you worked out Vr = Rotation Speed and Vrto = Rejected TakeOff speed? You did not say which Europa you have. But, isn't the Jabiru a heavier engine than the Rotax? And they give a takeoff roll of 590 Ft = 180 M which is 1/3 your runway length. That is 40% of your runway IF you start at the very end (not counting the length of your plane).
AND - AND - That is on a STANDARD TEMP DAY. Runways get shorter on hot days. So, YES, I would highly consider a CS prop. And your cruse speed would go up also. Learning to fly a CS prop is only a few hours of training and a lot of reading.
Barry
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)>
I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
com
|
ronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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LIGHTNING AUSTRALIA
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Kingston SE AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Hi Carl have you had a look at the www.airmasterpropellers.com website there are a few testamonials from Europa owners. I know a couple of other guys using this Prop, on other aircraft with very good results.
Regards
Dennis Borchardt
LIGHTNING AIRCRAFT AUSTRALIA
lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com (lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com)
www.lightningaircraft.com.au
08/87672145 or 0408813501
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Meek
Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012 7:55 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Hi Barry,
I've been routinely flying out of this strip for over 220 flight hours, so I'm pretty familiar with it's operation and challenges. It makes accurate landings essential!
From a weight perspective – Jabiru weighs 81kgs including exhaust and all peripherals. Rotax weighs 75.5kgs installed – so not much difference.
Hot days? In England? We don't have any of those!
Rejected takeoff speed is more of an instant decision. Go to full power. If anything is wrong, immediately shut down. There is no time for consideration – its pretty much all or nothing.
I am trying to find out some facts before I spend the money of what sort of improvement I can expect. Any suggestions how I can get figures or statements from others?
Regards,
-Carl.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58
To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Carl:
That could be a tight strip. 450 M = 1476 Ft. Have you worked out Vr = Rotation Speed and Vrto = Rejected TakeOff speed? You did not say which Europa you have. But, isn't the Jabiru a heavier engine than the Rotax? And they give a takeoff roll of 590 Ft = 180 M which is 1/3 your runway length. That is 40% of your runway IF you start at the very end (not counting the length of your plane).
AND - AND - That is on a STANDARD TEMP DAY. Runways get shorter on hot days. So, YES, I would highly consider a CS prop. And your cruse speed would go up also. Learning to fly a CS prop is only a few hours of training and a lot of reading.
Barry
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)>
I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
01234567890123
[quote][b]
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carlmeek(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Hi Dennis,
Yes, I've seen their website, but it would be nice to hear some more independent testimonials, and specifically some facts and figures 
Regards,
-Carl.
From: Dennis Borchardt <lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com (lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com)>
Reply-To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:05
To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hi Carl have you had a look at the www.airmasterpropellers.com website there are a few testamonials from Europa owners. I know a couple of other guys using this Prop, on other aircraft with very good results.
Regards
Dennis Borchardt
LIGHTNING AIRCRAFT AUSTRALIA
lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com (lightningaustralia(at)bigpond.com)
www.lightningaircraft.com.au
08/87672145 or 0408813501
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Carl Meek
Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012 7:55 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Hi Barry,
I've been routinely flying out of this strip for over 220 flight hours, so I'm pretty familiar with it's operation and challenges. It makes accurate landings essential!
From a weight perspective – Jabiru weighs 81kgs including exhaust and all peripherals. Rotax weighs 75.5kgs installed – so not much difference.
Hot days? In England? We don't have any of those!
Rejected takeoff speed is more of an instant decision. Go to full power. If anything is wrong, immediately shut down. There is no time for consideration – its pretty much all or nothing.
I am trying to find out some facts before I spend the money of what sort of improvement I can expect. Any suggestions how I can get figures or statements from others?
Regards,
-Carl.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58
To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Carl:
That could be a tight strip. 450 M = 1476 Ft. Have you worked out Vr = Rotation Speed and Vrto = Rejected TakeOff speed? You did not say which Europa you have. But, isn't the Jabiru a heavier engine than the Rotax? And they give a takeoff roll of 590 Ft = 180 M which is 1/3 your runway length. That is 40% of your runway IF you start at the very end (not counting the length of your plane).
AND - AND - That is on a STANDARD TEMP DAY. Runways get shorter on hot days. So, YES, I would highly consider a CS prop. And your cruse speed would go up also. Learning to fly a CS prop is only a few hours of training and a lot of reading.
Barry
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com (carlmeek(at)gmail.com)>
I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
01234567890123
4
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Hi Carl:
Your last statement has me laughing a bit... "facts"... From pilots  I
find the fact become smudged with the higher cost invested in the plane.
Start with what the prop manufacture states, then subtract 10% from his
claims and you are probably in the ballpark, whoops, cricket field.
Ask the question: What range in pitch does the prop cover. You would want
to go GREATER than the recommended high end Fixed Pitch and I would want it
greater by 2". There is about a 75 to 80% slippage in the prop so when you
work out the theoretical Vs the actual. And that percentage is
guess-factored. You can get an idea by working out your planes IAS
Vs theoretical and figure out the slippage.
And as flat as the lowest fixed pitch for climb. Question: Is this going
to be electrically adjusted?
I don't think you can go wrong with a CS prop... But as you say it is all
dependent on $$$.
Barry
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] Hi Barry,
I've been routinely flying out of this strip for over 220 flight hours, so
I'm pretty familiar with it's operation and challenges. It makes accurate
landings essential!
From a weight perspective – Jabiru weighs 81kgs including exhaust and all
peripherals. Rotax weighs 75.5kgs installed – so not much difference.
Hot days? In England? We don't have any of those!
Rejected takeoff speed is more of an instant decision. Go to full power.
If anything is wrong, immediately shut down. There is no time for
consideration – its pretty much all or nothing.
I am trying to find out some facts before I spend the money of what sort
of improvement I can expect. Any suggestions how I can get figures or
statements from others?
Regards,
-Carl.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58
To: <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300
Carl:
That could be a tight strip. 450 M = 1476 Ft. Have you worked out Vr =
Rotation Speed and Vrto = Rejected TakeOff speed? You did not say which
Europa you have. But, isn't the Jabiru a heavier engine than the Rotax?
And they give a takeoff roll of 590 Ft = 180 M which is 1/3 your runway
length. That is 40% of your runway IF you start at the very end (not
counting the length of your plane).
AND - AND - That is on a STANDARD TEMP DAY. Runways get shorter on hot
days. So, YES, I would highly consider a CS prop. And your cruse speed
would go up also. Learning to fly a CS prop is only a few hours of
training and a lot of reading.
Barry
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Carl Meek <carlmeek(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:36 am Post subject: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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Jabiru warns against using CS/VP props with their engine due to moment
of inertia limits (0.3 kgm2). The mechanism is usually too heavy to stay
within limits. If you do get one, make sure you get one with lowest
possible inertia.
On 6/19/2012 2:32 PM, Carl Meek wrote:
| Quote: |
I currently run a Europa with Seisenich fixed wood prop on a Jabiru 3300.
It's a little tight getting out of my 450m strip, I wouldn't want a more
coarse prop.
Cruise is 118kts at Sea Level at 2850rpm
I'm wondering whether to spend the money on the air master prop, but I'm a
novice to CS/VP props. I imagine it will give me better power out of the
strip and a higher cruise and/or lower RPM in cruise.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is it worth the money? What gains will I
reasonably expect?
Regards,
-Carl.
|
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AirEupora
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Airmaster AP420 on Europa 3300 |
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The Jabiru engine has a history of overheating when you put it on an Europa.
Bud Yurly of Custom Creation in Flordia has just completed a project for approval using a C/S prop. Not sure which one, but it cost 7k USD.
Look his web site up and give him a call.
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AirEupora
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
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