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Stick - Panel Interference

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nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

I have been meaning to send this for a while but have been too busy in phase 1 testing.  This is an old problem but slightly different spin.  I have the infinity stick grips and they are known to have a problem with clearing the bottom of the panel.  The fix is to cut the control sticks as short as possible.  This gives a nominal clearance of about a half an inch between the top of the stick grip and the bottom of the panel - the bottom strip that usually holds circuit breakers.  I was careful and mine cleared the panel.



One of the last things to install are the control cables.  Yes, they are too short.  More interesting was the interference between the right stick and the mixture control.  The right stick when moved full left could be hung up on the LEFT side of the mixture control.  See the photo.  This was unacceptable even though in flight it would be tough to get it there.  My control cables are stock and in the design location.



There are several ways to fix this but the one shown in the photo utilizes the stock cable.  A slight modification to the support removed the interference.  I actually like the fact that the mixture control is now below the throttle and prop.  This minimizes inadvertently grabbing the mixture control instead of the prop.

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The Fix

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Stick Interference.jpg

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Right Stick - Mixture Interference

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_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Stick - Panel Interference

Well, you're right, that would not be acceptable. Are you sure the right stick is vertical with the ailerons neutral? On mine the stick just barely touched the RIGHT side of the mixture knob, full over to the left. I adjusted the stick position (under the right seat) a bit, and now it doesn't touch.



BTW, I found I could hang up the stick if I moved to a certain position in a certain way. The culprit was a bolt under the seat in the control mechanism. I installed it per plans and it could hang up. The fix was to reverse the direction of bolt. The head wasn't long enough to interfere with the head forward.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

On my plane I cut the sticks down to just barely enough to mount the

Infinity Grip.  I also replaced the control cable bracket with a more narrow

one (but keep the same knob spacing).  This provides just enough clearance.

Both cabin heat, alternate air and oil cooler air controls are on the bottom

panel apron.  



Carl 



--

mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

Nice fix.



For others encountering stick/panel interference, another approach is bending the stick in a press, i.e. increasing the curvature.  Lots in the archives.



Sent from my iPad



On Jun 22, 2012, at 2:40 AM, "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have been meaning to send this for a while but have been too busy in phase 1 testing.  This is an old problem but slightly different spin.  I have the infinity stick grips and they are known to have a problem with clearing the bottom of the panel.  The fix is to cut the control sticks as short as possible.  This gives a nominal clearance of about a half an inch between the top of the stick grip and the bottom of the panel - the bottom strip that usually holds circuit breakers.  I was careful and mine cleared the panel.

 

 One of the last things to install are the control cables.  Yes, they are too short.  More interesting was the interference between the right stick and the mixture control.  The right stick when moved full left could be hung up on the LEFT side of the mixture control.  See the photo.  This was unacceptable even though in flight it would be tough to get it there.  My control cables are stock and in the design location.

 

 There are several ways to fix this but the one shown in the photo utilizes the stock cable.  A slight modification to the support removed the interference.  I actually like the fact that the mixture control is now below the throttle and prop.  This minimizes inadvertently grabbing the mixture control instead of the prop.

 

 --------

 Dave Moore

 RV-6 flying

 RV-10 QB - flying

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376266#376266

 

 

 

 

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nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Stick - Panel Interference

There is a lot of back-and-forth adjustments to the sticks to get them vertical at the same time the ailerons are in line with the flaps and wing tips.  I'm sure that was not the problem.  I considered bending the stick as others have done but my wiring was internal to the stick and I didn't want to disassemble the stick grip and re-pull the wires.



By the way, when you align your sticks vertically with the ailerons locked in trail be sure to do this with the elevator in the neutral position.  You do get some minor aileron deflection as you move the stick fore and aft.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

The stick can interfere here and there on the extreme ends. However, 

before making major changes keep in mind, if you have a passenger in the 

right seat, you are far more likely to hit their legs than any other 

type of interference. It's an individual decision, but personally, i 

never worried about it.



Jae

-- 



#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive

On 6/22/2012 5:16 AM, nukeflyboy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There is a lot of back-and-forth adjustments to the sticks to get them vertical at the same time the ailerons are in line with the flaps and wing tips.  I'm sure that was not the problem.  I considered bending the stick as others have done but my wiring was internal to the stick and I didn't want to disassemble the stick grip and re-pull the wires.



 By the way, when you align your sticks vertically with the ailerons locked in trail be sure to do this with the elevator in the neutral position.  You do get some minor aileron deflection as you move the stick fore and aft.



 --------

 Dave Moore

 RV-6 flying

 RV-10 QB - flying

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Stick - Panel Interference

Jae,



I agree with you.  My left leg would not let the stick go that far.  I would have to lift up my left leg and move the stick under it and to the left to get the right stick to interfere with the mixture control.  Nevertheless, the perfectionist in me couldn't let it be.  I was also concerned that the DAR would find it unacceptable.  Full control stick deflections in all corners is a standard check and you look for interference, such as mine, binding of bell cranks, adequacy of control stops, and movement of rod end bearings (not hard against the retaining bracket).



In reality though I could not see how I could actually get the stick way over there in flight.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

This is very true wether you fly with short small people who slide their seat forward or big giant people who have it slid back.  You will run out of throw due to body parts before it will hit the stops side to side.  You will also never use full forward but will definitely use full aft.

The RV-10 has too much pitch authority to use full forward.  I still would recommend cutting the sticks down and making sure the stick doesn't hit the panel or any switches though.  But I don't think I'd bother going to extremes about the mixture/throttle/prop controls.

Tim

On Jun 22, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 The stick can interfere here and there on the extreme ends. However, before making major changes keep in mind, if you have a passenger in the right seat, you are far more likely to hit their legs than any other type of interference. It's an individual decision, but personally, i never worried about it.

 Jae

 -- 

 #40533 RV-10

 First flight 10/19/2011

 Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

 do not archive

 On 6/22/2012 5:16 AM, nukeflyboy wrote:

> 

> 

> There is a lot of back-and-forth adjustments to the sticks to get them vertical at the same time the ailerons are in line with the flaps and wing tips.  I'm sure that was not the problem.  I considered bending the stick as others have done but my wiring was internal to the stick and I didn't want to disassemble the stick grip and re-pull the wires.

> 

> By the way, when you align your sticks vertically with the ailerons locked in trail be sure to do this with the elevator in the neutral position.  You do get some minor aileron deflection as you move the stick fore and aft.

> 

> --------

> Dave Moore

> RV-6 flying

> RV-10 QB - flying

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

For those flying, did your DAR make any comments with regards to stick 

travel and clearance from panel/switches, etc.? I would expect that nose 

down travel would be needed most at full aft c.g. location, and no 

flaps...kind of unusual to both be at full aft and need to not use flaps 

or flaps inop. Probably don't need near full travel even in that event.



On 6/23/2012 6:37 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 This is very true wether you fly with short small people who slide their seat forward or big giant people who have it slid back.  You will run out of throw due to body parts before it will hit the stops side to side.  You will also never use full forward but will definitely use full aft.

 The RV-10 has too much pitch authority to use full forward.  I still would recommend cutting the sticks down and making sure the stick doesn't hit the panel or any switches though.  But I don't think I'd bother going to extremes about the mixture/throttle/prop controls.

 Tim

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: Stick - Panel Interference

I had the FSDO do my plane.  He took the stick through full motion looking

for interference (as I expected him to do).  I have the Infinity grips with

standard sticks but cut down to just enough to mount the grip.



I agree with all the comments however that the pilot's body is far more

limiting on stick travel than anything else.  Recommend however that you

make sure there is no way for the stick to get caught on anything under the

panel.  Also remember that the stick travel is much different (less travel)

with all the push tubes connected and in the final rig position. So if you

are still in the fuselage stage take this into consideration before

attempting to fix a problem that you may not have.



Carl

13 hrs



--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stick - Panel Interference

My DAR looked briefly, and made no comment, about stick travel. But I had made sure it didn't hit anything, nor can it hang up on the panel. 



I have a Tosten grip, and I both cut the stick down, and bent it a little more.



Exception: the Tosten grip can rotate, and if I rotate it abnormally then it can touch the alternate air knob (full forward, full right). But it can't hang up, at worst it would activate the alternate air if I pulled it back like that.



As Tim said, I cannot imagine using full nose down in any circumstance, including aft loadings. But for landing with forward CG I do wish it had a bit more nose up authority. I have to carry 18 lbs ballast when solo (I'm short so the seat is one notch away from full forward).

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

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