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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: Powerfin |
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I would like to hear from those of you who have three blade Powerfin props. I am interested in proformance compared to two blades. Climb, cruise and how mush smoother. On or off list, your choice.
Larry
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frank goodnight
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: Powerfin |
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Larry,
I use a 3 blade powerfin on my HKS powered firestar 2 if you remember my plane is really dragie ( no cover on the cage or under the tail ) large tires and a BRS canister under the belly. plus I carry 15 gal fuel and weigh about 250 , cruise about
55mph (at) 5500 rpm, climb somewhere around 800 fpm --depend on temp . I chose a 3 blade because it gives me about 6in of
clearance between prop tip and the boom. The 2blade only gave about an inch. Spent a couple of months in New Mexico
And managed to get to 11,500 ft. to clear some of the mountians. Took almost 45 min. to get there and it was toped out.
There was a guy in Hawai about the time I built mine that got his Hks firestar to 18,000 with a 2 blade powerfin,
but he was a glider pilot and may have been riding a wave, claimed the 2 blade was the way to go. Got a couple hundred
hrs. on my 3 blade, no problems , and would choose it again if I were starting over.
Did Jimmy Young contact you about the air scoops--they really work-- I can't get my cht over 315 no matter long I climb (at) 40mph and 5,800 rpm & 100 degrees OAT.
fly safe
Frank
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, July 3, 2012 8:32:35 PM
Subject: Powerfin
I would like to hear from those of you who have three blade Powerfin props. I am interested in proformance compared to two blades. Climb, cruise and how mush smoother. On or off list, your choice.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: Powerfin |
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Thanks for the input. Mine is a bit cleaner, and with a two blade warp I am doing about 67 at 5500 as much as 75 at full cruise of 5800. Climb is perhaps 450 fps at 4000 feet.
I did put Jimmy in touch with the guy and he got them, but he has since sold his Firestar.
Thanks,
Larry
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:31 PM, frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Larry,
I use a 3 blade powerfin on my HKS powered firestar 2 if you remember my plane is really dragie ( no cover on the cage or under the tail ) large tires and a BRS canister under the belly. plus I carry 15 gal fuel and weigh about 250 , cruise about
55mph (at) 5500 rpm, climb somewhere around 800 fpm --depend on temp . I chose a 3 blade because it gives me about 6in of
clearance between prop tip and the boom. The 2blade only gave about an inch. Spent a couple of months in New Mexico
And managed to get to 11,500 ft. to clear some of the mountians. Took almost 45 min. to get there and it was toped out.
There was a guy in Hawai about the time I built mine that got his Hks firestar to 18,000 with a 2 blade powerfin,
but he was a glider pilot and may have been riding a wave, claimed the 2 blade was the way to go. Got a couple hundred
hrs. on my 3 blade, no problems , and would choose it again if I were starting over.
Did Jimmy Young contact you about the air scoops--they really work-- I can't get my cht over 315 no matter long I climb (at) 40mph and 5,800 rpm & 100 degrees OAT.
fly safe
Frank
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tue, July 3, 2012 8:32:35 PM
Subject: Powerfin
I would like to hear from those of you who have three blade Powerfin props. I am interested in proformance compared to two blades. Climb, cruise and how mush smoother. On or off list, your choice.
Larry
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: Powerfin |
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Larry, I have both WD and a Powerfin. The WD is a three blade, the Powerfin a four with "F" blades. I ran the WD on a 582 with a 4 to 1 gearbox and the Powerfin on an HKS with the 3.54 to 1 ratio. I thought the two engines and their gearbox ratios were close enough that they would interchange so I tried them both on the 582 on my Mk III. When I put the Powerfin on the 582 would not rev past about 4200 rpm and I aborted the take off. The HKS from which the Powerfin had come would rev to 6000 in climb and 6200. By the time I repitched the Pfin to work on the 582 I lost almost ten miles per hour. I pulled two blades from the prop and repitched it for the 582 and got back 6 miles an hour. My conclusion was that the HKS has a much broader power band and the Powerfins ability to absorb it made it well suited to the engine when run with that gearbox. How well it would work with the lower ratio gearbox I do not know. On the down side, on two occasions I have learned of the fragility of the Powerfin. The first was when I forgot to put my glasses on and left them hanging from the collar of my tee shirt. The wind ripped my glasses off and they went through the prop. That cost me for two blades. A cheap pair of five buck Dollar General bifocals cost me $330 that day. The second was when I let the prairie grass get a little long in my back yard and I taxied my trike out without mowing first. Tore up the ends of all four blades and I had to go from a 68" prop to a 67 1/2" to get it cleaned up and balanced. Obviously, the second would not have happened on the Kolb, but a bolt or pin would do at least as good a job on Powerfin blades as those cheap glasses did.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to hear from those of you who have three blade Powerfin props. I am interested in proformance compared to two blades. Climb, cruise and how mush smoother. On or off list, your choice.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: Powerfin |
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Thanks, I appreciate the information. The prop in question has a nick in it that has been repaired with JB weld. Not sure what caused it, rock I suppose. My two blade warp launched a pair of heavy duty dikes all the way to the roof of my hanger and down through my wing and I couldn't find a nick in either of the blades. Just thinking about faster and smoother. Probably better off where I am.
Thanks
Larry
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Larry, I have both WD and a Powerfin. The WD is a three blade, the Powerfin a four with "F" blades. I ran the WD on a 582 with a 4 to 1 gearbox and the Powerfin on an HKS with the 3.54 to 1 ratio. I thought the two engines and their gearbox ratios were close enough that they would interchange so I tried them both on the 582 on my Mk III. When I put the Powerfin on the 582 would not rev past about 4200 rpm and I aborted the take off. The HKS from which the Powerfin had come would rev to 6000 in climb and 6200. By the time I repitched the Pfin to work on the 582 I lost almost ten miles per hour. I pulled two blades from the prop and repitched it for the 582 and got back 6 miles an hour. My conclusion was that the HKS has a much broader power band and the Powerfins ability to absorb it made it well suited to the engine when run with that gearbox. How well it would work with the lower ratio gearbox I do not know. On the down side, on two occasions I have learned of the fragility of the Powerfin. The first was when I forgot to put my glasses on and left them hanging from the collar of my tee shirt. The wind ripped my glasses off and they went through the prop. That cost me for two blades. A cheap pair of five buck Dollar General bifocals cost me $330 that day. The second was when I let the prairie grass get a little long in my back yard and I taxied my trike out without mowing first. Tore up the ends of all four blades and I had to go from a 68" prop to a 67 1/2" to get it cleaned up and balanced. Obviously, the second would not have happened on the Kolb, but a bolt or pin would do at least as good a job on Powerfin blades as those cheap glasses did.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to hear from those of you who have three blade Powerfin props. I am interested in proformance compared to two blades. Climb, cruise and how mush smoother. On or off list, your choice.
Larry
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Powerfin |
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...Just thinking about faster and smoother...
Larry,
If you want faster and smoother, you could get both by buying my Slingshot, which is for sale. I might even fly it to Oregon. I am buying a half share in a Diamond Katana and can't afford overhead for 1 1/2 airplanes, since I don't have my own airstrip and hangar.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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That's a nice thought, but I think an unnecessary extra powerfin would be a lot cheaper. 
Larry
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
..Just thinking about faster and smoother...
Larry,
If you want faster and smoother, you could get both by buying my Slingshot, which is for sale. I might even fly it to Oregon. I am buying a half share in a Diamond Katana and can't afford overhead for 1 1/2 airplanes, since I don't have my own airstrip and hangar.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377232#377232
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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In boating this is called two-foot-itis. You upgrade two feet at a time until you can't find crew, the boat draws too much to sneak into the holes you enjoyed, the fuel costs too much to run it and you wind up storing an idle boat in a pricey slip. You sell it to the next guy with the disease and get out of boating. At times you wax nostalgic for the simple (cheap) trailer sailer that you took to a different lake, river or bay every weekend.
PCKing
[quote] ---
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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Larry
I have a three bladed 72" model F Powerfin prop. I couldn't be happier with it. I had a 5/16 X 2 inch bolt go through it on the way back from Oshkosh. I flew the remaining 6 hours home with no further problems.
A few years back I purchased a two bladed Powerfin hub to just try it with two blades. The prop vibrated so bad I cut the first flight short and sold the two blade prop hub.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]That's a nice thought, but I think an unnecessary extra powerfin would be a lot cheaper.
Larry
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:00 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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You know pcking had a pretty wise revelation. I once bought a Mark III in order to fly off my solo time and perhaps save a bit of money. The only down side was that it had a 582 on it. I tried for better than a year to sell my Firestar. Finally I was demonstrating it to a prospective buyer and discovered that it, unlike the Mark III was a hoot to fly. I sold the Mark III instead. This is nothing against any Mark III except those with less than a 912 for power. If I were you I would hesitate to sell your Slingshot, You might find that there is a place for it after all. A "go somewhere" plane is fine, but a cheap to fly to fun plane is hard to come by.
Just a thought!
Larry
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Larry,
You can buy a lot of Powerfins for one Slingshot .
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377248#377248
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Powerfin |
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Larry,
Much soul searching has gone before deciding to sell the Slingshot. For personal fun flight, it is hard to beat and the Jabiru (much later model than the one John W had) is a fine, powerful, lightweight, very fuel efficient, easy and cheap to maintain engine. However, I'm not a camping flyer like John H and a few other Kolbers and want to start making some trips to Atlanta to see my daughter and grandson, as well as a few other places. So, the Slingshot is for sale. If I were more financially well endowed, I'd certainly keep it and buy into the Katana as well, but such is not the case.
Anyone who has ever thought they would like a Slingshot, this one, built by LuRay Wechter, is as fine an example as one could ever find. See barnstormers.com for my ads. Sorry for the sales pitch; it did not start out that way but sort of ended up as such.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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At TOK company I lost count of those who traded off their FS for a more faster more capable aircraft. Many later lamented their decision. It is the “fun” factor. The FS (and SS) would fit in that class are just very fun aircraft to fly. A big part of that is visibility and that is why the FS out shines the M3’s, you lose so much visibility with the M3. I recall someone who sold their FS and got a Rans S9; he said he knew he made a mistake on the first flight of the S9. John Roncz (Rutan’s airfoil guru) mentioned in a forum at Oshkosh that he considered visibility the #1 criterion for his aircraft design – it had forward swept wings to enhance visibility. Little things enter into, like ease of pushing an airplane into and out of the hangar. The FS was so much easier than the M3.
Dennis
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Powerfin
You know pcking had a pretty wise revelation. I once bought a Mark III in order to fly off my solo time and perhaps save a bit of money. The only down side was that it had a 582 on it. I tried for better than a year to sell my Firestar. Finally I was demonstrating it to a prospective buyer and discovered that it, unlike the Mark III was a hoot to fly. I sold the Mark III instead. This is nothing against any Mark III except those with less than a 912 for power. If I were you I would hesitate to sell your Slingshot, You might find that there is a place for it after all. A "go somewhere" plane is fine, but a cheap to fly to fun plane is hard to come by.
Just a thought!
Larry
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Larry,
You can buy a lot of Powerfins for one Slingshot .
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377248#377248
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: Powerfin |
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Personally I think that it should be offered on the list first to give us that love the planes the first chance. I would love to have it, but one is all I can handle at a time.
Larry
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>
Larry,
Much soul searching has gone before deciding to sell the Slingshot. For personal fun flight, it is hard to beat and the Jabiru (much later model than the one John W had) is a fine, powerful, lightweight, very fuel efficient, easy and cheap to maintain engine. However, I'm not a camping flyer like John H and a few other Kolbers and want to start making some trips to Atlanta to see my daughter and grandson, as well as a few other places. So, the Slingshot is for sale. If I were more financially well endowed, I'd certainly keep it and buy into the Katana as well, but such is not the case.
Anyone who has ever thought they would like a Slingshot, this one, built by LuRay Wechter, is as fine an example as one could ever find. See barnstormers.com for my ads. Sorry for the sales pitch; it did not start out that way but sort of ended up as such.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377261#377261
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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http://forums.matronics.com
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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