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Solid state trim controller

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Martymason

Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Norcross, GA

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: Solid state trim controller

Lectric' Bob,

Have you done anything with the two channel solid-state trim controller? If so when might a circuit board be available? 

I downloaded the PDF drawing of the circuit but could not find anything on the AE Connection web site. A three channel board would be useful for those with rudder trim.

Marty Mason

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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: Solid state trim controller

Marty,



<<  two channel solid-state trim controller?  >>



Over a year ago Kitplanes accepted my article for a "no-etch" circuit board 

version of just such a gizmo.  If their editor got some emails telling them 

there is a market need for this article maybe they will print it soon.



Meanwhile, don't know why I couldn't email you a copy of the schematic, 

board and manuscript privately especially if you promise to buy/subscribe to 

Kitplanes anyway.  Because of the dual ICs used, adding 2 more channels is 

easier than just one but a third would still not be a big deal.  Email me 

off-list if you want the details.



Tom Kuffel

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rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: Solid state trim controller

I'm all for people experimenting, however, if you aren't looking for a 

project, just wanted to make sure you know that we sell one and two axis 

solid state trim controllers.    They provide run-away trim prevention, two 

adjustable speeds and allow for pilot and copilot control switches.   For 

all the details visit   www.tcwtech.com    and click on the Safety-Trim 

picture.   We'll be at Oshkosh, booth 4095 if you want a demo.



Thanks,

Bob Newman

RV-10  N541RV



--

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Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Solid state trim controller

A "solid-state trim controller" can mean many things.



I sell the TSCMR...True Servo Controller for MAC/RAC trim boxes by the boatload, as well as the Extremely General Purpose Non-MAC servo controller for controlling Futaba and various RC-type servos.

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_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: Solid state trim controller

At 03:42 PM 7/16/2012, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Martymason" <captainmarty(at)bellsouth.net>



 Lectric' Bob,

 Have you done anything with the two channel solid-state trim controller? If so when might a circuit board be available? 

 I downloaded the PDF drawing of the circuit but could not find anything on the AE Connection web site. A three channel board would be useful for those with rudder trim. 	


    Marty,



    Thanks for reminding me of this. I went to the

    hammer-n-tongs bin to see how far that effort

    had progressed and found that the board was

    finished and checked. Don't recall what force

    moved it to one side but it's back on the rails.

   

 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

    Ordered boards and relays today. I will be able to offer

    bare boards for the DIY crowd and assembled boards with

    connector kits for the plug-n-play folks.



    I'll have a production proof-batch of six boards about the

    first of next week.



    These are single channel boards, 2.5" long by 1.9" wide and

    a 15-pin D-sub on one edge. There are two speed setting

    potentiometers that control a constant-voltage supply to

    the trim motor. These may be used/ignored as the installation

    dictates. In other words, leaving the speed control pins

    un-terminated makes the board function as a rudimentary

    relay-deck. I'll probably put a non-adjustable relay-deck

    in the catalog along with the adjustable version.



 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: Solid state trim controller

At 10:57 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I second the request for 3 channel trim but depending on price one 

could always buy two 2 channel boards and just not use one channel.



Any idea on price yet ? or still too early ?


	


    At first blush, an assembled and tested

    relay deck with 2-speed adjustability

    and a mating connector kit will be offered

    at $45.



    For the configuration shown, a '2-channel'

    relay deck is simply assembled on the two-up

    etched circuit boards as fabricated. They're

    small and there's little to be gained by

    physically combining two controllers onto

    a single board. This would also have the effect

    of forcing replacement of both controllers

    in the event that one of was damaged or failed.



    I think it more prudent to offer 'single channel'

    assemblies as shown so that the builder may choose

    to assemble as many as necessary for their

    particular project.





   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: Solid state trim controller

At 11:53 PM 7/17/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



    I think it more prudent to offer 'single channel'

    assemblies as shown so that the builder may choose

    to assemble as many as necessary for their

    particular project.


	


    I should point out that while this offering does

    included some 'solid state' components for the purpose

    of controlling supply voltage to the trim motor, it's

    more properly referred to as a "relay deck with speed

    control".



    The first time I conducted an MTBF study on a

    product (multi-speed trim controller for the Lears)

    I was feeling pretty smug about the calculated

    numbers falling out when only the solid state

    devices and their assembly processes were being

    plugged in. But got a shock when I added the 4PDT

    power relay into the mix. The relay alone dropped

    the MTBF numbers by 75%!



    Besides illuminating the fallacies embedded in

    naive acceptance of "plugging in the numbers",

    it did serve as a wake-up notice on the RELATIVE

    reliability of relays versus transistors. If

    one's project design goals are driven strongly

    by MTBF numbers, then it's a good thing to minimize

    the use of relays.



    On the other hand, our airplanes fly on average

    50 hours a year and in relatively benign environmental

    conditions. Further, designing for failure tolerance

    offers an opportunity to exploit the unique features

    of relays with little concern for risks.



    Relays are stone simple, very low ON resistance and

    perfect isolation between controlling signal and switched

    load. The biggest down side is power consumption of

    the coil and volumetric considerations for building

    miniature devices.



    I chose to stay with relays for this product because

    of their unique ability to provide a dead-short across

    the connections to the spinning armature at 'trim

    command release'. This feature provides 'dynamic

    braking' which is a legacy design goal of many motor

    driven systems like flaps, landing gear, cooling

    doors, etc.



    This design also provides automatic tolerance for

    conflicting commands between two trim switches.

    If one switch is calling for trim up while the other

    calls for trim down . . . the motor simply stops.



    There's a family of designs available with

    differences driven by alternative design goals.

    I'm not intent upon arguing with those goals but

    I think it useful to describe the thinking behind

    the AEC9041 Trim Relay Deck for PM Motors so that

    the buyer can assess their own design goal fit

    with products being offered.

   Bob . . .

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