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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
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|
This is a remarkable story.
Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
I'm very satisfied with it.
What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
about excessive oil leaks.
Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
props all have these extra seals, I think.
Jan
On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal(at)acronut.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
experiences.
The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
"warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
ever so
I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
Kendal
On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>
> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>day.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>offered to do it.
>>
>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>
>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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kendal(at)acronut.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
|
|
That particular prop was an MTV9 on my S2S. They installed 2 or 3 sets of the new seals on it and the problem always returned.
Kendal
On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:49, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:
| Quote: |
This is a remarkable story.
Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
I'm very satisfied with it.
What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
about excessive oil leaks.
Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
props all have these extra seals, I think.
Jan
On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal(at)acronut.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
> experiences.
> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
> to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
> overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
> slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
> The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
> repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
> Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
> FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
> "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
> don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
> their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
> back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
> about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
> because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
> said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
> volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
> correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
> years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
> flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
> where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
> would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
> was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
> have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
> power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
> had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
> M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
> ever so
> I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
> of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
> product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
> my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
> that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
> don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
> needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>
> Kendal
>
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>> short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>> surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>
>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>> at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>> of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>> tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>> day.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>> out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>> damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>> could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>> more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>> offered to do it.
>>>
>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>> dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>> charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>
>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>> decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>
>>> Craig Payne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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rick(at)rvairshows.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
|
|
I have had the same experience as Kendall, flying the MTV 9-260-29 on the Sukhoi. The prop needs to be inspected and re-shimmed and balanced every 150 hr. after a steady diet of tumbles and knife edge spins. it has several narrow rpm ranges that are smooth and does not allow utilization of the engines flexibility, though has Great performance at full power. I would love to try a Whirlwind prop to compare .
Rick Volker
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:
| Quote: |
This is a remarkable story.
Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
I'm very satisfied with it.
What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
about excessive oil leaks.
Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
props all have these extra seals, I think.
Jan
On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal(at)acronut.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
> experiences.
> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
> to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
> overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
> slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
> The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
> repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
> Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
> FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
> "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
> don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
> their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
> back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
> about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
> because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
> said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
> volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
> correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
> years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
> flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
> where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
> would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
> was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
> have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
> power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
> had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
> M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
> ever so
> I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
> of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
> product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
> my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
> that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
> don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
> needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>
> Kendal
>
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>> short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>> surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>
>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>> at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>> of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>> tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>> day.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>> out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>> damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>> could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>> more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>> offered to do it.
>>>
>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>> dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>> charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>
>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>> decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>
>>> Craig Payne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a p |
|
|
Yeah Jan, you're happy with your MT prop.
But you never do any snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 50. 
We've got the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 on our Yak-52 (and a spinner !)
and we have NEVER had any issues with it ... so far.
Perfectly statically and dynamically balanced (prop-engine-spinner).
Very smooth throughout the complete RPM range, from idle to full power and every power/prop combination in between.
And we do A LOT of snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 52.
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/?&sid=&sp=
http://youtu.be/nEp-WMjJdvw
http://www.rtbf.be/video/v_meeting-aerien-a-saint-hubert?id=1730533&category=info
http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=8504
We like to keep it simple.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
The only thing is that it "needs" overhaul every 6 years according to
the very strict maintenance rules edicted by the UK CAA for Yakovlevs.
Skycraft in the UK or Hoffmann in Germany do a good job overhauling
the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 2 blade paddle prop. 
Having said that, as reported by Richard in a previous post,
a lot of much better pilot than me (most if not all) fly behind MT propellers,
"which must say something".
I'm just saying that a "good old" Russian V530 TA-D35 is certainly good enough for most Yaks (50 and 52).
Best Wishes, Etienne.
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