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New topic - spin off of prop discussions

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drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: New topic - spin off of prop discussions

I would be interested to hear from pilots that have experience with both the 50 and the 55.

How would you compare aerobatic capabilities - 

Verticle / roll / induced drag / balance of CG to center of lift   ??



Even maintenance and value??



If anyone can compare to SU 26 it wold be an interesting comparison.  I read an old article that was a great review of the SU26 / Yak 55, but would be interested to hear from someone who also could compare Yak 50.



Thanks,

Herb





Dr. Herb Coussons, MD

drc(at)wscare.com

2641 Development Drive

Green Bay, WI  54311

Cell 920-639-8434

Work 920-338-6868

Fax 920-338-6869

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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: New topic - spin off of prop discussions

The 50 and 55 are very different aircraft. In my view, the 50 is one of the

world's classic aircraft, but it was unfortunate that it came out in 1976,

just as aerobatics was changing from being big, gracious manoeuvres to

vicious corners. It is a tough aircraft, +9 and -7, but the Russians were

flying well beyond those limits and suffered a number of airframe failures.



The 50 is a delight to fly, and has that feeling of a little "fighter". But

the controls are poorly harmonised, with a very light elevator and heavy

ailerons. The latter can be helped with the wingtip "spades", but they're

not terribly attractive.



It was a combination of structural problems and high rates of roll from

Western competitors that brought about the 55, which is very different. It

is immensely strong, and for its money, the best aerobatic plane you can

buy. But even its best friends would not say that it is beautiful!.



When the 55 came out all 50s were ordered to be cut up - hence we are left

with about 65 of the total production of 307.



My personal view is that the long wing 55 is a nicer, and in many ways more

effective aircraft than the clipped - wing 55N, which was a rather desperate

measure to try to keep up with the Sukhoi 26. The problem about the shorter

wing is that it has much higher induced drag. So, although the long wing is

slower in roll, it will normally retain more height in the same sequence

than the "M".



I believe it is a mistake to see the 50 in the same context as 55 and Sukhoi

26. It is an older design, and an aeroplane for more gentle aerobatics and

"fun" flying. I'm sure that in the long-term, the 50 will become a very

valuable aircraft. On the other hand, the 55 and the 26 are much more

capable aerobatic aircraft - that is simply the advance of technology.



One does need to be careful about the modification status of 50s. I see

people writing about them having "the heavy spar" whereas there were a whole

series of modifications to attempt to keep up with the Russian Team

over-flying the aircraft. I have prepared a paper on these modifications,

and the problems that caused them if anyone is interested.



Remember, also, that the original G limits were for an aircraft with only

the small fuel tank; maximum weight of pilot and parachute 90kgs - 200

pounds, and without generator etc and without generator.I would not fly one

today beyond +6 and -4, and that for one with all mods embodied. Like that,

it will last for ever



Of course with retractable gear the 50 will be a bit more expensive to

maintain, but not by a huge amount.



Richard Goode

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is

+94 779 132 160.

--

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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: New topic - spin off of prop discussions

I'd liked to read that paper on the modifications for the 50, Richard!

Thanks,



Jan



On 21/07/12 06:01, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:



[quote]

<richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>



The 50 and 55 are very different aircraft. In my view, the 50 is one of

the

world's classic aircraft, but it was unfortunate that it came out in 1976,

just as aerobatics was changing from being big, gracious manoeuvres to

vicious corners. It is a tough aircraft, +9 and -7, but the Russians were

flying well beyond those limits and suffered a number of airframe

failures.



The 50 is a delight to fly, and has that feeling of a little "fighter".

But

the controls are poorly harmonised, with a very light elevator and heavy

ailerons. The latter can be helped with the wingtip "spades", but they're

not terribly attractive.



It was a combination of structural problems and high rates of roll from

Western competitors that brought about the 55, which is very different. It

is immensely strong, and for its money, the best aerobatic plane you can

buy. But even its best friends would not say that it is beautiful!.



When the 55 came out all 50s were ordered to be cut up - hence we are left

with about 65 of the total production of 307.



My personal view is that the long wing 55 is a nicer, and in many ways

more

effective aircraft than the clipped - wing 55N, which was a rather

desperate

measure to try to keep up with the Sukhoi 26. The problem about the

shorter

wing is that it has much higher induced drag. So, although the long wing

is

slower in roll, it will normally retain more height in the same sequence

than the "M".



I believe it is a mistake to see the 50 in the same context as 55 and

Sukhoi

26. It is an older design, and an aeroplane for more gentle aerobatics and

"fun" flying. I'm sure that in the long-term, the 50 will become a very

valuable aircraft. On the other hand, the 55 and the 26 are much more

capable aerobatic aircraft - that is simply the advance of technology.



One does need to be careful about the modification status of 50s. I see

people writing about them having "the heavy spar" whereas there were a

whole

series of modifications to attempt to keep up with the Russian Team

over-flying the aircraft. I have prepared a paper on these modifications,

and the problems that caused them if anyone is interested.



Remember, also, that the original G limits were for an aircraft with only

the small fuel tank; maximum weight of pilot and parachute 90kgs - 200

pounds, and without generator etc and without generator.I would not fly

one

today beyond +6 and -4, and that for one with all mods embodied. Like

that,

it will last for ever



Of course with retractable gear the 50 will be a bit more expensive to

maintain, but not by a huge amount.



Richard Goode

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is

+94 779 132 160.

--

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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