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pnicholson
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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TSB Identification: CEN12FA462
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, July 21, 2012 in Walsenburg, CO
Aircraft: NANCHANG CHINA CJ-6A, registration: N96YK
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On July 21, 2012, about 1130 mountain daylight time, an experimental
Nanchang CJ-6A airplane, N96YK, impacted terrain near the Spanish
Peaks Airfield (K4V1), Walsenburg, Colorado. The private pilot and the
passenger were both fatally injured. The airplane sustained
substantial damage. The airplane was registered to and operated by a
private individual under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological
conditions prevailed for the flight, which operated without a flight
plan. The flight originated from an undetermined location and was
destined for K4V1.
The pilot was flying to K4V1 to join three other airplanes for a
formation flight. The other pilots in the formation were already at
the airfield waiting for the pilot and observed the accident. The
witnesses reported that the airplane approached the airfield from the
north, overflew the midpoint of the runway and entered the downwind
for a right base turn to runway 8. The airplane lowered the landing
gear and flap prior to initiating the base turn. The airplane was then
observed to slow and start a right bank turn that continued to
increase in bank angle and roll rate. The airplane quickly descended
and impacted terrain.
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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There have been incidents like this at Burning Man ... in one case the
pilot, flying out of a sea level airfield, stalled as he turned
base/final. My experience there was the ground speed needed to maintain
IAS was different enough from my normal practice that 'it didn't look
right' to me ... have to trust the instruments.
A sad day for the community.
On 7/26/2012 4:35 AM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
| Quote: |
TSB Identification: CEN12FA462
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, July 21, 2012 in Walsenburg, CO
Aircraft: NANCHANG CHINA CJ-6A, registration: N96YK
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On July 21, 2012, about 1130 mountain daylight time, an experimental
Nanchang CJ-6A airplane, N96YK, impacted terrain near the Spanish
Peaks Airfield (K4V1), Walsenburg, Colorado. The private pilot and the
passenger were both fatally injured. The airplane sustained
substantial damage. The airplane was registered to and operated by a
private individual under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological
conditions prevailed for the flight, which operated without a flight
plan. The flight originated from an undetermined location and was
destined for K4V1.
The pilot was flying to K4V1 to join three other airplanes for a
formation flight. The other pilots in the formation were already at
the airfield waiting for the pilot and observed the accident. The
witnesses reported that the airplane approached the airfield from the
north, overflew the midpoint of the runway and entered the downwind
for a right base turn to runway 8. The airplane lowered the landing
gear and flap prior to initiating the base turn. The airplane was then
observed to slow and start a right bank turn that continued to
increase in bank angle and roll rate. The airplane quickly descended
and impacted terrain.
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Bill,
This was an accident tragic beyond words. Jeff's happy love of flying and the infectious enthusiasm of he and his son Jack will be sorely missed by all of us at FFZ. Those of us who were on the ground at 4V1 and watched this unfold are still in a state of shock and our hearts are broken.
If there is anything to be learned, it is that when things deviate from the familiar it is necessary to have the right information to work with. It is unsettling when I hear things like "real pilots can tell when they are about to stall." True, at our home airports and with average temps and normal loading, most of us can probably do a beautiful landing every time with all the instruments covered. But at a high altitude airport, with the outside temperature above 90 degrees, things are different. The accident record in general and this heartsick occurrence in particular are eloquent testimony that none of us are really as good as we think we are. We all know that even high time pilots have stall / spin accidents. Are airplanes so difficult to control that even very accomplished pilots cannot prevent this?
By the right information, I'm referring to having information about the angle of attack (AOA). This concept needs no explanation to those who flew in the military, but the pilot with a general aviation background is unlikely to ever have seen an AOA indicator. What the AOA indicator gives us is a net solution regarding lift, independent of airspeed, weight, temperature, humidity and loading.
What continues to make it hard for me to sleep at night is thinking about the fact that last week an AOA indicator was installed in my CJ and that this flight was the first time it was used. I landed at 4V1 less than an hour before Jeff and the AOA indicator showed that about 10 knots faster than normal was required on the approach. It is now abundantly clear that both landing and takeoff involves the correct management of the angle of attack. This will forever change the way that I fly.
Sadly,
Warren
On Jul 26, 2012, at 6:53 AM, William Halverson wrote:
| Quote: |
There have been incidents like this at Burning Man ... in one case the pilot, flying out of a sea level airfield, stalled as he turned base/final. My experience there was the ground speed needed to maintain IAS was different enough from my normal practice that 'it didn't look right' to me ... have to trust the instruments.
A sad day for the community.
On 7/26/2012 4:35 AM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>
>
> TSB Identification: CEN12FA462
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Saturday, July 21, 2012 in Walsenburg, CO
> Aircraft: NANCHANG CHINA CJ-6A, registration: N96YK
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On July 21, 2012, about 1130 mountain daylight time, an experimental
> Nanchang CJ-6A airplane, N96YK, impacted terrain near the Spanish
> Peaks Airfield (K4V1), Walsenburg, Colorado. The private pilot and the
> passenger were both fatally injured. The airplane sustained
> substantial damage. The airplane was registered to and operated by a
> private individual under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal
> Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological
> conditions prevailed for the flight, which operated without a flight
> plan. The flight originated from an undetermined location and was
> destined for K4V1.
>
> The pilot was flying to K4V1 to join three other airplanes for a
> formation flight. The other pilots in the formation were already at
> the airfield waiting for the pilot and observed the accident. The
> witnesses reported that the airplane approached the airfield from the
> north, overflew the midpoint of the runway and entered the downwind
> for a right base turn to runway 8. The airplane lowered the landing
> gear and flap prior to initiating the base turn. The airplane was then
> observed to slow and start a right bank turn that continued to
> increase in bank angle and roll rate. The airplane quickly descended
> and impacted terrain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Bill,
Not to sound sarcastic or condescending and maybe I misunderstood what
you wrote, but can you explain what ground speed has to do with flying
the airplane?
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/26/2012 8:53 AM, William Halverson wrote:
| Quote: |
There have been incidents like this at Burning Man ... in one case the
pilot, flying out of a sea level airfield, stalled as he turned
base/final. My experience there was the ground speed needed to
maintain IAS was different enough from my normal practice that 'it
didn't look right' to me ... have to trust the instruments.
A sad day for the community.
On 7/26/2012 4:35 AM, Philip Nicholson wrote:
>
> <pednicholson(at)gmail.com>
>
> TSB Identification: CEN12FA462
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Saturday, July 21, 2012 in Walsenburg, CO
> Aircraft: NANCHANG CHINA CJ-6A, registration: N96YK
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On July 21, 2012, about 1130 mountain daylight time, an experimental
> Nanchang CJ-6A airplane, N96YK, impacted terrain near the Spanish
> Peaks Airfield (K4V1), Walsenburg, Colorado. The private pilot and the
> passenger were both fatally injured. The airplane sustained
> substantial damage. The airplane was registered to and operated by a
> private individual under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal
> Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological
> conditions prevailed for the flight, which operated without a flight
> plan. The flight originated from an undetermined location and was
> destined for K4V1.
>
> The pilot was flying to K4V1 to join three other airplanes for a
> formation flight. The other pilots in the formation were already at
> the airfield waiting for the pilot and observed the accident. The
> witnesses reported that the airplane approached the airfield from the
> north, overflew the midpoint of the runway and entered the downwind
> for a right base turn to runway 8. The airplane lowered the landing
> gear and flap prior to initiating the base turn. The airplane was then
> observed to slow and start a right bank turn that continued to
> increase in bank angle and roll rate. The airplane quickly descended
> and impacted terrain.
|
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hess737(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Dennis,
The higher the density altitude, the higher the true airspeed for a given indicated airspeed. So, if the true airspeed was 10 knots higher at an IAS at that density, then the corresponding ground speed would be 10 knots higher for a given wind also (as compared to sea level). The KIAS you fly in the pattern should not change with density. I will say that flying with an AOA is very nice because you always know what proportion of lift you are demanding from the wing at any moment. It's very intuitive once you start using one. If properly calibrated it also compensates for different flap settings.  )
Rich
--
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:13 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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On Thursday, July 26, 2012, Warren Hill wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: Warren Hill <[url=javascript:;]k7wx(at)earthlink.net[/url]>
I landed at 4V1 less than an hour before Jeff and the AOA indicator showed that about 10 knots faster than normal was required on the approach. It is now abundantly clear that both landing and takeoff involves the correct management of the angle of attack. This will forever change the way that I fly.
|
AoA is everything. Had an AoA indicator on my first CJ. Extremely useful, even in botched aerobatic maneuvers. Go to zero alpha and wait until you have some airspeed.
FYI, for a given loading a given CAS (and IAS) will produce a given AoA. So if you are at the same loading, you can use IAS as you would AoA. A hot and high airport will NOT require a different approach IAS for the same AoA.
The nice thing about AoA is that it is independent of loading. Stall will occur at the same AoA whether you are pulling 5G or 0.5G, or whether the plane is empty or loaded to max gross. But for a given fuel/passenger load you will always use the same IAS on approach to achieve the proper approach AoA.
Your extra 10 kts suggests you need to check for a problem in either your IAS or AoA indicators unless you had more weight in the plane than usual.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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All true, but ground speed has nothing to do with flying the airplane?
I completely agree with you; IAS in the pattern is IAS and should not
change with density. No question about it, an AOA might have prevented
this tragedy.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/26/2012 1:04 PM, hess737(at)aol.com wrote:
[quote] Dennis,
The higher the density altitude, the higher the true airspeed for a
given indicated airspeed. So, if the true airspeed was 10 knots higher
at an IAS at that density, then the corresponding ground speed would
be 10 knots higher for a given wind also (as compared to sea level).
The KIAS you fly in the pattern should not change with density. I will
say that flying with an AOA is very nice because you always know what
proportion of lift you are demanding from the wing at any moment. It's
very intuitive once you start using one. If properly calibrated it
also compensates for different flap settings. )
Rich
--
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Ground speed certainly doesn't ... my point was if you are looking out the window and are not used to landing at high elevation (+6000' AGL) on hot days, you will be surprised how much faster you are going relative to the ground than you are going at 0' AGL on a standard day.
Sorry for the confusion ...
--
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Copy that!
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/26/2012 4:23 PM, William Halverson wrote:
[quote]
Ground speed certainly doesn't ... my point was if you are looking out the window and are not used to landing at high elevation (+6000' AGL) on hot days, you will be surprised how much faster you are going relative to the ground than you are going at 0' AGL on a standard day.
Sorry for the confusion ...
--
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Adrian Coop Cooper
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang accident. |
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Firstly, let me say how sorry I am for the loss of those two family members. My condolences to Family and Friends.
As a sea level resident I am very interested in the discussions re AOA guages/indicators. While British Columbia has lots of mountains, and occasional heat, most of our high density fields are not in the 6,000'plus range. However, should my travels take me to such high level fields I should like to be prepared. When I raced at Reno I always carried extra speed on base and final. Thus, I would welcome comments and suggestions on type, models and installation of AOA indicators for my CJ-6A.
Thanks for helping me out with this.
Coop.
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Coop |
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Coop,
From what I have read, the Lift Reserve Indicator is probably the most reliable angle of attack indicator out there. Here is a link.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
I have mine on the left hand side of the glare shied, basically in the line of sight for landing and takeoff. It is pneumatic and requires no power, another plus. My A&P guy did the install in about seven hours.
Installing an angle of attack indicator in your CJ will be something of an epiphany. At any moment, it will tell you what the wing is doing in terms of lift and there will be times when this information may surprise you.
Al Mojzisik's number at Lift Reserve is 614-890-6301 and his e-mail is: prober(at)iwaynet.net (prober(at)iwaynet.net) He is very knowledgeable.
Good luck with everything,
Warren
On Jul 26, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Adrian Coop Cooper wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Adrian Coop Cooper" <cooperairracing(at)gmail.com (cooperairracing(at)gmail.com)>
Firstly, let me say how sorry I am for the loss of those two family members. My condolences to Family and Friends.
As a sea level resident I am very interested in the discussions re AOA guages/indicators. While British Columbia has lots of mountains, and occasional heat, most of our high density fields are not in the 6,000'plus range. However, should my travels take me to such high level fields I should like to be prepared. When I raced at Reno I always carried extra speed on base and final. Thus, I would welcome comments and suggestions on type, models and installation of AOA indicators for my CJ-6A.
Thanks for helping me out with this.
Coop.
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379279#379279
- The Yak-List --> &n========================
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thomasg(at)infosysnetwork
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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This company is at OSH. They give a good presentation. The only thing I don't like about it is they require another pitot tube to be installed.
http://www.alphasystemsaoa.com/
Here is another company. I believe they are at OSH too. They do not require another pitot tube. They use your existing pitot system along with a pressure point on the top and bottom of the airfoil.
http://advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html
They are also being integrated into different EFIS. I know Dynon has one for their SkyView system but that requires the use of their pitot tube.
I know of at least one CJ with the Advanced Flight System version installed.
--
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Dale
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang accident. |
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In my 52TW I have Advanced AOA's Pro. Small unseen ports are in the right wing and a computer calculates everything you need. Display is mounted on the top of the dash just to the left and in line with the windshield support and my line of sight so it is not taking any viewing area while flying. My reason for the Advanced and not the Dynon upgrade to my D5 is that the Advanced tells me audio in the headset my flaps have been deployed and visually a green donut appears when the gear is deployed. Cut the donut in half with the bar and your there. The multi bar display is easy to see without looking down at the instrument panel. The Dynon is a small dimly lit useless bar graph during landing. The AOA is in my vision during formation as well at least when looking left and flying. And is easy to see in max sunlight. I fly out of 5K to 9K airports all the time in Colorado. I really can't say I'm all that impressed after spending gobs of money and time on the installation. I am a IAS watcher all the time on landing and compare it to the AOA and notice they are pretty much married up all the time when landing. So keeping coordinated rudder in the turns and IAS where it should be helps along with a stabilized approach. I do get impressed with the amount of climb I can pull and still have reserved lift at max power. Don't get me wrong I like it but it won't fix bad pilotage.
Dale
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k7wx
Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Thomas,
Just my opinion, but to have solid information, a separate, dedicated probe is preferred. Not that big a deal to install. On takeoff and landing, important decisions are made based on this information and it's the transition from one lift state to another that is being closely monitored. To my way of thinking, a smoothly responding analog dial allows for more meaningful information processing than waiting for a red / yellow / green electronic chevron to change from one color to another. Attached are some pictures to illustrate this.
Warren
[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZG2HidxsMVK8MhacePclJS1SvrI9kLHZUUBQ2hJNJoINmsfY7[/img]
[img]cid:A8FF9125-AF6F-40E6-9AB8-1C5589B01D75(at)ph.cox.net[/img]
On Jul 26, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Thomas Geoghegan wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Thomas Geoghegan <thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com (thomasg(at)infosysnetworks.com)>
This company is at OSH. They give a good presentation. The only thing I don't like about it is they require another pitot tube to be installed.
http://www.alphasystemsaoa.com/
Here is another company. I believe they are at OSH too. They do not require another pitot tube. They use your existing pitot system along with a pressure point on the top and bottom of the airfoil.
http://advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html
They are also being integrated into different EFIS. I know Dynon has one for their SkyView system but that requires the use of their pitot tube.
I know of at least one CJ with the Advanced Flight System version installed.
--
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Dale
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang accident. |
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Advanced AOA is a dedicated probe system. Has Flap and Gear Warning.
Don't worry the lights change fast and takes not much to make them change.
One flight and dials are history. Nothing to think about it's just there. You also get that wonderful Angle Angle Push yelling at you in the headset.
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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I happened to something about this. I happened to own the patent on one of them. Since expired.
I have no financial interest in any of these.
There are really 4 companies that sell AOA systems; Alpha Systems AOA, Rite Angle, Advanced AOA and Dynon.
Advanced AOA was originally designed and owned by Jim France, a Republic Airlines pilot.
The Rite Angle unit, invented by a nice guy in Washington State.
The Alpha Systems AOA System patent was owned by yours truly, me.
The only difference in all the units, is how they gather the information to be processed.
Rite angle has a rather large probe mounted on the wing. This probe actually measures the angle of attack. The probe flys in the free air and stays parallel to the relative wind. Good info, not very attractive probe.
The Alpha system and the Dynon companies are all variations on my patent. Basically, you have two holes, in a probe. As you fly, one hole or the other gets more or less ram air. Just as a pitot tube. One hole drives the indicator to the green, good, the other hole drives it to the red. Bad.
Dynon sells a new pitot tube with the 2 holes. Alpha has a short probe that it mounted anywhere outside the propeller arc. You need undisturbed air.
Advanced AOA has a hole on the top and bottom of the wing. They are measure pressure differences between the two. Basically the same as the other 3.
There are good and bad points with all. However they all offer similar displays.
Installation varies only a little.
Rite, mount on the strut or? Run the wire/hoses thru the wing.
Alpha, mount the probe in an existing inspection plate, hoses thru wing. It can be heated.
Dynon, replace your pitot tube, hose thru the wing.
Advanced, more difficult. Drill holes, mount water drain, then run hoses thru wing.
Dynon and Alpha are the only heated probes.
Each unit comes with its own fun for calibration.
They all give you choices of displays.
Dynons display is in there EFIS display. Not as handy as mounting in your view when looking outside where you should be looking.
AOA is what really makes the airplane fly. The only thing you need airspeed indicators for is to know when you can put the gear and flaps down, and rotate for takeoff.
With AOA you know exactly where the airplane will stall. Remember, airplanes will stall at any airspeed, altitude, attitude, and weight. But always the same AOA. There are those that will make the case. For with and without flaps. Fine. We are talking basics. So you know where it stalls, don't go there.
You will also know exactly where Vx, basic angle of climb. Vx and Vy change with altitude, AOA for those speeds doesn't change. Maintain AOA and you are always getting max performance.
When people make statements like, " I've been flying this airplane for 40 years, I don't need one of these nor do I need to know, or I fly by the seat of my pants, RUN! I don't care how good you think you are, you ain't that good. The term, Fly by the seat of my pants, that is where the term smart ass comes from. My butt is not that smart.
All in all a good tool. Required, should be but no. Keep the nose down. If you over-shoot final, don't pull and step on the rudder. Show everyone how smart you are, go-around.
Bill
On Jul 26, 2012, at 4:09 PM, "Adrian Coop Cooper" <cooperairracing(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Firstly, let me say how sorry I am for the loss of those two family members. My condolences to Family and Friends.
As a sea level resident I am very interested in the discussions re AOA guages/indicators. While British Columbia has lots of mountains, and occasional heat, most of our high density fields are not in the 6,000'plus range. However, should my travels take me to such high level fields I should like to be prepared. When I raced at Reno I always carried extra speed on base and final. Thus, I would welcome comments and suggestions on type, models and installation of AOA indicators for my CJ-6A.
Thanks for helping me out with this.
Coop.
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379279#379279
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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On Thursday, July 26, 2012, Warren Hill wrote:
| Quote: | Coop,
From what I have read, the Lift Reserve Indicator is probably the most reliable angle of attack indicator out there. Here is a link.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
|
Many people like the the LRI. Unfortunately, the LRI does NOT display AoA, at least not directly. AoA is a factor but I was never able to discern what that instrument was telling me. From what I can tell, it displays AoA times airspeed which probably is just total lift. Regardless, it is DEFINITELY NOT pure AoA and cannot be treated as such. If you want AoA you need to get a different instrument.
The unit I had in my CJ6A was the AoA Pro, now sold by Advanced Flight Systems. I liked it very much.
See: http://advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html
The only negative to this instrument (and definitely a nit) is that it does not read negative AoA, only positive, so it can't be used on "outside" maneuvers. For most this won't matter.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Lift reserve was my patent. It is now the Alpha Systems AOA. Has the two holes in the probe. As does Dynons pitot tube. Both holes are getting ram air. The gauge or processor are just comparing differential pressure. Same as Advanced Pro. Very simple systems.
Lift reserve analog gauge is the most reliable just because no moving parts or processors.
As far as inverted indications or negative maneuvers, we actually had a customer place a mark on the glass as to where it stalled when upside down. Cool idea.
The entire mission of an AOA gauge is to get you on the ground safely, slowly and shortest distance.
Thanks for the kind words.
Bill
On Jul 26, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
[quote]On Thursday, July 26, 2012, Warren Hill wrote:
| Quote: | Coop,
From what I have read, the Lift Reserve Indicator is probably the most reliable angle of attack indicator out there. Here is a link.
http://www.liftreserve.com/
|
Many people like the the LRI. Unfortunately, the LRI does NOT display AoA, at least not directly. AoA is a factor but I was never able to discern what that instrument was telling me. From what I can tell, it displays AoA times airspeed which probably is just total lift. Regardless, it is DEFINITELY NOT pure AoA and cannot be treated as such. If you want AoA you need to get a different instrument.
The unit I had in my CJ6A was the AoA Pro, now sold by Advanced Flight Systems. I liked it very much.
See: http://advanced-flight-systems.com/Products/AOA/aoa.html
The only negative to this instrument (and definitely a nit) is that it does not read negative AoA, only positive, so it can't be used on "outside" maneuvers. For most this won't matter.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
| Quote: |
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Anyone who has ever landed an aircraft in recent history on an aircraft
carrier know that all modern carrier aircraft are equipped with BOTH.
An angle of attack "dial, readout, Heads Up Display" (whatever) that
gives exact readings. Normally with markings on it for flaps up and
down danger areas.
The other is the three light "Chevron" deal with Red Green and Yellow.
These were invented for and are still used for.... carrier landings.
How they are used in civilian aircraft is of course totally up to the
owner, however having "BOTH" is a very good thing.
Mark Bitterlich
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: Nanchang accident. |
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Bill .....
What a wonderfully written posting.
I am also massively impressed that you actually invented and patented a
differential pressure Angle of Attack system.
Brilliant.
Mark Bitterlich
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