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Everybody ground loops?
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul,

I doubt the larger tires make much of a difference.  I guess in theory, 

since a larger tire has more mass and takes a bit more energy to spin up on 

first touch, that it might be a little bit destabilizing if both tires don't 

touch simultaneously.  A point worth mentioning.  The bungee landing gear on 

the early Kitfoxes was typically toed in.  This will destabilize the the 

ground handling.  This is a topic touched on from time to time over the 

years.  Kitfox, I don't recall if it was Denney or Skystar, published a 

bulletin regarding toe in and gave a method to check it and then correct it 

by tying down the airplane and muscling the gear into alignment.  I did that 

with my first Model IV and never experienced the squirrely ground handling 

that is often referred to.  I think that wheel alignment would be one of the 

first things I would check.  An easy way to get a rough estimate of 

alignment is to put a piece of tape on the aft surface of both tires at axle 

height and put a vertical line on the tapes.  Measure accurately between the 

tape marks and then push the airplane forward until the mark is on the 

forward side at axle height and measure again.  If the measurement is less 

than the aft measurement, it is toed in.  The wheels should track parallel 

or slightly toed out.

Lowell

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul Folbrecht" <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net>

Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 7:58 AM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

 	  Quote: 	

 <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net>

 akflyerbob wrote:

> I have 3K plus hrs in TD stuff and if it hadn't been for

> AKFLYER I whould have spudded my brand new KF l on

> my first flight.

> To say the least they are rudder unfriendly.

> Now that I can control it, it is a blast, and I am proud to

> own one. Well two, am working on a lll that was never finished.

> If you can fly, you will love the K F.

> Bob.

 This is an old thread, but I have to ask you or someone to elaborate on 

 the "rudder-unfriendly" comment above.

 And a new question: do large (tundra) tires make a TD more docile (less 

 likely to ground loop)?

 (I did buy half of that Kitfox.  Then I sold it because we had a baby born 

 over 3 months premature and I spent evenings at the hospital for 3 

 months+.  (He's 3 now, doing good, and loves airplanes along with his 

 sister.)  And now I am considering an Avid or Kitfox again.  Still no TD 

 endors. but I did end up getting about 50 hours in a Challenger II so I 

 have light-plane experience.  I plan to get the TD endors. in a Cub soon 

 and see how I like that first.)

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380037#380037

sdemeyer

Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 45

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

My Kitfox 4 always handled terrible on the ground. It was always a crap shoot on which way it was going to dart off to upon landing. Then I got rid of the bungee gear and installed bush gear. Huge difference!! You could almost fall asleep when landing, after I installed the gear. I think the rudder is just fine but the stock bungee gear sucks.



      



This is an old thread, but I have to ask you or someone to elaborate on the "rudder-unfriendly" comment above.



And a new question: do large  (tundra) tires make a TD more docile (less likely to ground loop)?



(I did buy half of that Kitfox.  Then I sold it because we had a baby born over 3 months premature and I spent evenings at the hospital for 3 months+.  (He's 3 now, doing good, and loves airplanes along with his sister.)  And now I am considering an Avid or Kitfox again.  Still no TD endors. but I did end up getting about 50 hours in a Challenger II so I have light-plane experience.  I plan to get the TD endors. in a Cub soon and see how I like that first.)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380037#38003w.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronisp;               -Matt Dralle, List Adm



 

 

  

 [quote][b]

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

I had a 4 with the bungee gear and it handled great on the ground, like Lowell mentioned, wheel alignment is an important part of the planes ground handling. I have a 5 now with grove gear and even with the grove I checked and aligned the wheels. Another element of good ground handling is to make sure the tail wheel control cables / springs are tight between the rudder and tail wheel and that the angle of the caster pin in the tail wheel is either straight up or bottom slightly aft, if it is canted forward it will cause the tail wheel to be at a high point when the wheel is straight and will be difficult to hold there because it always want to fall off the high point to the left or right.

Lloyd Cudnohufsky

Northern Michigan

KF 5 Outback

912UL IVO IFA

Status: Flying  

 

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott DeMeyer

Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 3:06 PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Everybody ground loops?

 

My Kitfox 4 always handled terrible on the ground. It was always a crap shoot on which way it was going to dart off to upon landing. Then I got rid of the bungee gear and installed bush gear. Huge difference!! You could almost fall asleep when landing, after I installed the gear. I think the rudder is just fine but the stock bungee gear sucks.



 

 



This is an old thread, but I have to ask you or someone to elaborate on the "rudder-unfriendly" comment above.



And a new question: do large (tundra) tires make a TD more docile (less likely to ground loop)?



(I did buy half of that Kitfox.  Then I sold it because we had a baby born over 3 months premature and I spent evenings at the hospital for 3 months+.  (He's 3 now, doing good, and loves airplanes along with his sister.)  And now I am considering an Avid or Kitfox again.  Still no TD endors. but I did end up getting about 50 hours in a Challenger II so I have light-plane experience.  I plan to get the TD endors. in a Cub soon and see how I like that first.)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380037#38003w.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronisp;               -Matt Dralle, List Adm



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  [quote][b]

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

I'll second the bush gear.  After installing the Highwing LLC bush gear on my model IV it became a much easier taildragger to land.

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

Paul Folbrecht

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 14

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

Thank you for the replies.  The plane I am looking it is a Avid Mk IV built just a few years ago (meticulously by a gentleman who happens to be one of the original EAA members, and has just recently quit flying).



However, it has the standard gear (not even the wide gear that's an option).  The Grove gear is probably as great as everyone says but how on earth can it be north of $2K?



Good news for me is there is a local CFI who can do a tailwheel endors in that plane.  



The builder did meticulously set the toe-in (to 0) and says it's a piece of cake to land - of course, he probably has 20K tailwheel landings.



This plane also has the extended wings - that's 35' span!  (I can't find any specs but the owner says it still cruises at 90 mph!  That seemed very high to me with that kind of wing area and a 582 but it does have an in-flight adjustable prop which may explain it.)



I remain a bit nervous, esp. because my purpose in buying an airplane is to fly with my wife & small children, and then give lots of rides to others (extended family, friends, Young Eagles).  How about if I just stay on grass until I'm a real pro?  Can we say no chance of looping then unless I decide to take phone call on short final?!  Heck, we've got to be able to say that. 



Despite that, I sure have an inkling to try this.  One issue with tri-gear planes (esp. slower ULs like the Challenger) is that there not much - challenge.  I did get bored with that Challenger pretty quickly.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul, You can learn to land that airplane. Just keep the instructor till you feel comfortable. It isn't really hard to land a tailwheel Kitfox or Avid, especially with that wng. After I rebuilt my Mod 3 Kitfox I had a 20,000 hour pilot that had 1st flighted 10 Kitfoxes as my instructor. I had a couple of ground loops and we couldn't figure out why. The Maul tailwheel bushing was worn so bad the tailwheel would kick out at the slightest sign of side pressure. I replaced the oilite bushing and haven't come close to a ground loop in 2 years. The main difference in landing the tailwheel is be lined up travelling straight down the runway and stay with it for awhile before you answer that cell phone.

  

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 Rebuilt

Rockford, IL

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Paul Folbrecht <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net (paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Folbrecht" <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net (paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net)>

  

 Thank you for the replies.  The plane I am looking it is a Avid Mk IV built just a few years ago (meticulously by a gentleman who happens to be one of the original EAA members, and has just recently quit flying).

 

 However, it has the standard gear (not even the wide gear that's an option).  The Grove gear is probably as great as everyone says but how on earth can it be north of $2K?

 

 Good news for me is there is a local CFI who can do a tailwheel endors in that plane.

 

 The builder did meticulously set the toe-in (to 0) and says it's a piece of cake to land - of course, he probably has 20K tailwheel landings.

 

 This plane also has the extended wings - that's 35' span!  (I can't find any specs but the owner says it still cruises at 90 mph!  That seemed very high to me with that kind of wing area and a 582 but it does have an in-flight adjustable prop which may explain it.)

  

 I remain a bit nervous, esp. because my purpose in buying an airplane is to fly with my wife & small children, and then give lots of rides to others (extended family, friends, Young Eagles).  How about if I just stay on grass until I'm a real pro?  Can we say no chance of looping then unless I decide to take phone call on short final?!  Heck, we've got to be able to say that. 

  

 Despite that, I sure have an inkling to try this.  One issue with tri-gear planes (esp. slower ULs like the Challenger) is that there not much - challenge.  I did get bored with that Challenger pretty quickly.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380118#380118

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

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 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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-- 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

  [quote][b]

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul, PS I do have Lowell Fitts bush gear and believe it has saved me a few times. Not so much from ground loops but from damaging the plane after flaring too high, stalling and droping to the runway. I finally corrected that problem....most of the time.

  

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuilt

Rockford, IL

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 4:46 PM, rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com (rawheels(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "rawheels" <rawheels(at)yahoo.com (rawheels(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 I'll second the bush gear.  After installing the Highwing LLC bush gear on my model IV it became a much easier taildragger to land.

 

 --------

 Ryan Wheeler

 Kitfox IV-1200

 Indianapolis, IN

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380114#380114

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


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Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

  [quote][b]

Paul Folbrecht

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 14

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

I cannot find a link for the Lowell gear with Google - is there a web site?



(I would like to get the endorsement in the plane as-is, but long-term I will most likely replace the gear.  To me it makes sense to spend a bit of money to avoid a future ground loop at all costs.  I sure can't stay off pavement forever.)

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul, I believe Lowell's company and site is High Wing Limited. If you still can't find it, send me another message.

 

Pat Reilly

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Paul Folbrecht <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net (paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Folbrecht" <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net (paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net)>

  

 I cannot find a link for the Lowell gear with Google - is there a web site?

 

 (I would like to get the endorsement in the plane as-is, but long-term I will most likely replace the gear.  To me it makes sense to spend a bit of money to avoid a future ground loop at all costs.  I sure can't stay off pavement forever.)

  

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380123#380123

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

  [quote][b]

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

 	  Paul Folbrecht wrote: 	
		  I cannot find a link for the Lowell gear with Google - is there a web site? 	




http://www.highwingllc.com/

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

kl7jw(at)jwhart.us
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul,

That Kitfox is about as easy as it gets to land a tailwheel airplane. I've

been flying tailwheel airplanes off and on since I first soloed in a J-3 Cub

in 1962, and I presently own a Kitfox IV.  The important thing to make sure

that the landing gear is aligned properly, then don't quit flying a

tailwheel aircraft until it is at a dead stop.  Keep the stick back on

landing rollout, and at the first indication that the aircraft may want to

take off one way or the other during rollout, KEEP THE STICK BACK and apply

rudder in opposite direction that the airplane is trying to turn. I've been

a flight instructor since 1967 and have never had a mishap from landing,

even with students, in tailwheel aircraft.



John Hart

KF IV EA-82 Engine  

--

sdemeyer

Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 45

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul, here is the link:  http://www.highwingllc.com/  

        From: Paul Folbrecht <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net>

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 4:14 PM

 Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Everybody ground loops?

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Folbrecht" <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net (paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net)>

I cannot find a link for the Lowell gear with Google - is there a web site?

(I would like to get the endorsement in the plane as-is, but long-term I will most likely replace the gear.  To me it makes sense to spend a bit of money to avoid a future ground loop at all costs.  I sure can't stay off pavement forever.)

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/view= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day =   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_=             - List Contribution Web Site                      &nbs

 [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

Paul, I have about 550 hours on my model 3 and the only time I did a ground loop was when I broke the tailwheel spring on a hard landing. I also went twice with the left wing on the ground in very strong side wind. Both were on asphalt runways. I think the Kitfox really loves grass. My airplane looks at me and says: "Thanks, mate!" each time I land on grass! 



Cheers,

Michel

Kitfox 3 Jabiru 2200

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

I cannot think of any tail wheel aircraft that is easier to land on

pavement.  Grass is the way to go.  If you talk to the locals you might be

surprised at how many airports have a grass strip available even if it is

not listed on the map.  Many small airports (in the Midwest at least) will

have a grass runway right next to the paved runway.  A great example is

Roosterville airport in liberty MO.  It has 20 ft of grass on either side of

the paved runway.(see pic).  



http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures_large.php?most_viewed=yes&id=IMG

_6605.JPG





Kirk Hull

Classic 4

Editor

SportFlight.Net 



--

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Everybody ground loops?

Regarding 90 mph cruise in a long-wing (35 ft) - - - I flew for 12 years not knowing that my original Denny Aerocraft ASI read 76 at 70. On the other end, it read 31 at 35. I figured it must have been calibrated in Dennys per Hour. My replacement helicopter-type ASI reads in actual mph.

_________________
Mike Perkins
Havana, Illinois
Model I, 532, B gearbox, GSC prop

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

While I was getting comfortable landing my Model 2, I'd customarily land on the grass between the runway and taxiway at my home airport (watch the signage!). Nobody seemed to care.  I learned to fly taildraggers in a Piper PA-11 on grass. It is a much more forgiving surface.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 KF 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

 Hersey, MI

 



    

From: kirk hull <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 8:08 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Everybody ground loops?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com (kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com)>



I cannot think of any tail wheel aircraft that is easier to land on

pavement.  Grass is the way to  go.  If you talk to the locals you might be

surprised at how many airports have a grass strip available even if it is

not listed on the map.  Many small airports (in the Midwest at least) will

have a grass runway right next to the paved runway.  A great example is

Roosterville airport in liberty MO.  It has 20 ft of grass on either side of

the paved runway.(see pic).  



http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures_large.php?most_viewed=yes&id=IMG

_6605.JPG





Kirk Hull

Classic 4

Editor

SportFlight.Net 



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Interesting that you should mention Roosterville, Kirk....I was going  

to fly in there last year to attend the Nascar race at Kansas, but  

the report was for high winds, so I drove out there instead. Coupled  

with the high winds being reported, and my research into the layout  

of the runway...20 feet wide, with a dog-leg....I decided against  

making the trip by Kitfox. After getting to Kansas and hooking up  

with my racing buddy, we drove to the airport to see what it looked  

like....it really wasn't as scary as it sounded, but the "cliff" at  

the north end might have been interesting if a guy landed long.  : )



By the way, was that your Kitfox that I saw parked there?



p.s. Another contributing factor in not flying there was the  

identifier for Roosterville.......0N0.....which I read as :    Oh,  

NO!  Which I took as a sign from God that I shouldn't fly there!

Kidding aside, it was a very nice-looking airport, and I'm hoping to  

fly there this year for the October race.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062

Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)

Status: flying with 1323 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)

do not archive



On Aug 6, 2012, at 8:08 AM, kirk hull wrote:



[quote] 



 I cannot think of any tail wheel aircraft that is easier to land on

 pavement.  Grass is the way to go.  If you talk to the locals you  

 might be

 surprised at how many airports have a grass strip available even if  

 it is

 not listed on the map.  Many small airports (in the Midwest at  

 least) will

 have a grass runway right next to the paved runway.  A great  

 example is

 Roosterville airport in liberty MO.  It has 20 ft of grass on  

 either side of

 the paved runway.(see pic).



 http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures_large.php? 

 most_viewed=yes&id=IMG

 _6605.JPG





 Kirk Hull

 Classic 4

 Editor

 SportFlight.Net



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Paul:

  

 Probably most taildraggers pilot have done at least one ground loop, but that does not means that every taildragger pilot will do a ground loop from time to time.  Once you know the technique, it is unlikely that you will have a ground loop under normal conditions.  Exceptions are broken chains or broken springs as mentioned in previous postings.

  

 Once you know the technique, there is nothing particular about performing a wheel landing in a pavement runway.  

  

 I strongly recommend a book that I studied when I was learning to fly taildraggers 20 years ago: The Compleat Tailoragger Pilot by Harvey S. Plourde.  http://www.amazon.com/Compleat-Taildragger-Pilot-Harvey-Plourde/dp/0963913700

  

 Flying taildraggers bring an additional challenge and fun that you won't find on a tricycle.

  

 Best wishes!

  

 Jose

 

    

From: kirk hull <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 8:08 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Everybody ground loops?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com (kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com)>



I cannot think of any tail wheel aircraft that is easier to land on

pavement.  Grass is the way  to go.  If you talk to the locals you might be

surprised at how many airports have a grass strip available even if it is

not listed on the map.  Many small airports (in the Midwest at least) will

have a grass runway right next to the paved runway.  A great example is

Roosterville airport in liberty MO.  It has 20 ft of grass on either side of

the paved runway.(see pic).  



http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures_large.php?most_viewed=yes&id=IMG

_6605.JPG





Kirk Hull

Classic 4

Editor

SportFlight.Net 



--

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

It was most likely mine as is the only one on the field but a picture is

worth a thousand words.  The link below has some pics of my fox.  As for the

cliff ( known as mount Stuber) it is well to the east of the runway center

line.  The 20 ft wide is kind of misleading as it is 20 ft of pavement and

another 15 ft of smooth grass on each side.  Hopefully you can make the trip

some time.  I would love to see another fox in the rooster pin. If you do I

will make room in the hanger for you.  Just send me an email on the

SportFlight.Net email address. 



PS.  If you have any good pics of your fox I would love to have more kitfox

pics added to sportflight.





http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures.php?nnum=n205ak&searchnnum=yes&p

ic_only=yes



Kirk Hull

Classic 4

Editor

SportFlight.Net





--

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: Everybody ground loops?

Kirt:

  

 Very beautiful your Model 4.  Very"interesting" your runway.

  

 Jose

  

  

 



    

From: kirk hull <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 3:45 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Everybody ground loops?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirk hull" <kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com (kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com)>



It was most likely mine as is the only one on the field but a picture is

worth a thousand words.   The link below has some pics of my fox.  As for the

cliff ( known as mount Stuber) it is well to the east of the runway center

line.  The 20 ft wide is kind of misleading as it is 20 ft of pavement and

another 15 ft of smooth grass on each side.  Hopefully you can make the trip

some time.  I would love to see another fox in the rooster pin. If you do I

will make room in the hanger for you.  Just send me an email on the

SportFlight.Net email address. 



PS.  If you have any good pics of your fox I would love to have more kitfox

pics added to sportflight.





http://www.sportflight.net/display_pictures.php?nnum=n205ak&searchnnum=yes&p

ic_only=yes



Kirk Hull

Classic 4

Editor

SportFlight.Net





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