Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - European registration/certification

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

European registration/certification
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: European registration/certification

European registration/certification  

   

I have been involved in this complex issue of registration and certification of Yaks in Europe for longer than anyone – in fact since 1986, so do have a good idea of the issues involved.    

   

Also I have spent a lot of time examining the law – because in the end that is what it comes down to – in different European countries.     

   

As far as the Russian “FLA” registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC (FAA/CAA) have confirmation from the Russian Ministry of Transport, themselves responsible for the Russian GSGA (their FAA/CAA) that FLA certification and Certificates of Airworthiness are acceptable and legal.     

   

Given that, I find it puzzling that Etienne goes out of his way to try to show that these registrations are not acceptable, for whatever reasons.   Quite what his motives for being involved in these issues are, I simply do now know.  But I personally would have thought that anyone within the Yak community would do all possible to ensure that as many Yaks as possible continue to fly rather than create potential hurdles that MIGHT in the future prevent them from flying.   

   

Richard Goode Aerobatics  

Rhodds Farm  

Lyonshall  

Herefordshire  

HR5 3LW  

United Kingdom  

   

Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120  

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129  

www.russianaeros.com  

   

       [quote][b]

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: European registration/certification

Couldn’t agree more! Well said Richard...Amen!

 

 Hans

 

 

 Op 14-07-11 17:45, Richard Goode <[url=richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com]richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com[/url]> schreef:

 

 [quote]European registration/certification

  

 I have been involved in this complex issue of registration and certification of Yaks in Europe for longer than anyone – in fact since 1986, so do have a good idea of the issues involved.  

  

 Also I have spent a lot of time examining the law – because in the end that is what it comes down to – in different European countries.   

  

 As far as the Russian “FLA” registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC (FAA/CAA) have confirmation from the Russian Ministry of Transport, themselves responsible for the Russian GSGA (their FAA/CAA) that FLA certification and Certificates of Airworthiness are acceptable and legal.   

  

 Given that, I find it puzzling that Etienne goes out of his way to try to show that these registrations are not acceptable, for whatever reasons.   Quite what his motives for being involved in these issues are, I simply do now know.  But I personally would have thought that anyone within the Yak community would do all possible to ensure that as many Yaks as possible continue to fly rather than create potential hurdles that MIGHT in the future prevent them from flying. 

  

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

 Rhodds Farm

 Lyonshall

 Herefordshire

 HR5 3LW

 United Kingdom

  

 Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

 www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com> 

  

 

 

 ail Forum -

 ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ;  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 matronics.com

 ;- List Contribution Web Site -

 ;                 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ://www.matronics.com/contribution

 

 

 [b]

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

AIRWORTHINESS / CERTIFICATION / REGISTRATION ... in Europe !

============================================



Richard, others,



You are ill-informed.



1. Very briefly, the ONLY reason I became involved in these Airworthiness / Certification / Registration issues was for people flying UK registered Yaks in Belgium to be able to continue to fly their aircraft.



Richard, they were indeed people in the very small Yak community in Belgium trying to create hurdles to prevent UK registered Yaks to be based and flown in Belgium. Sad but true. You know them.

The fact that they are now blaming me for what is happening is quite ironic.



According to their complaints to the Authorities, flying UK registered Yaks in Belgium was illegal because we only had UK CAA Permit to Fly.

While they had of course a "full" C of A !



UK registered Yaks were grounded in Belgium or asked to leave the country.



We did find it puzzling that some Yak pilots would go out of their way to try to show that these registrations were not acceptable, for whatever reasons.



Quite what their motives were, I simply do not know.

Jealousy ?  Money ... the fact that they were setting up a maintenance facility in Namur to maintain "RAxxxxK" registered Yaks in Continental Europe and wanted to have as many UK registered Yaks based on the Continent transfer to "russian" registrations ?



As you are well aware Richard, a lot of UK CAA registered and maintained Yaks do transfer to the "russian" register.

We have discussed this before together off-list.

You told me then what you thought about this and I have kept a copy of your e-mails on the subject.



As you can all understand we were NOT amused to have our (UK registered and maintained) Yaks grounded while the Belgian CAA was investigating. Some owners decided to base their aircraft out of Belgium

or sell.



Believe it or not Richard, ironically, some of us even considered a quick switch to the "russian" register !



After consulting a few people, we were strongly advised against doing it by persons who do spent a lot of time examining the aviation laws in different European countries (UK, France, even Belgium ... EASA).



So we did not because as you write Richard, in the end that is what it comes down to : the law !



Then we fairly quicky managed to convince the Belgian CAA to leave us alone. Good advises from people who know the rules does wonder !



As a consequence of all this BS, the Belgian CAA also had a look at other Yaks based and flying in Belgium :



* with non European / EASA Certificate of Registration.



* with "full" non European EASA  C of A for aircraft not ICAO Annex 8.



* with "russian" pilot licences issued and renewed by a "flying club".

   (the words of a CAA official).  

I DID NOT START ALL THIS BS.



We were free to fly our beloved G-xxxx Yaks again.



But a very big can of worms had been opened.

_____________________________________________________________



2. RICHARD, as far as the Russian "FLA" registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC and EASA are waiting to receive clarifications (from the official Russian Aviation Authorities if possible !) about the status of FLA outside Russia.



In particular regarding the issues of Certificate of Airworthiness / Registration Certificate / Pilot Licences.



Please read page 19 of this report from BEA for the French DGAC :

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf



On page 18 : C of A delivered by FLA not recognised by Russian CAA :

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

_____________________________________________________________



3. As far as Airworthiness is concerned, it is in fact quite simple Richard.

If an aircraft has been certificated according to Annex 8 to the Convention of International Civil Aviation, it receives a Certificate of Airworthiness. If not ... well it doesn't.



It is that simple :

http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%208%20-%20Airworthiness%20of%20Aircraft/an08_9ed_cnt.pdf



This C of A is then recognised in all contracting States.



Russian general aviation aircraft have not been certificated according to Annex 8.



It is not their fault ! It's just the way it is.

We all agree they are fantastic flying machines.



Consequently, they cannot receive Normal Unrestricted C of A.

That's the way it is according to International Aviation LAW.



The fact that FLA (whether or not it is recognised by the Russian CAA in and outside CIS) nevertheless issues C of A to these aircraft is a concern to some CAAs.



Just take my word for it on that one Richard.



Su-26, Yak 54 and 55 for instance are not certificated but can qualify for EASA Permits to Fly under 21A.701(15).

The Flight Conditions for these aircraft are similar to the Airworthiness Approval Notes issued by the UK Civil Aviation Authority.



Other types have been certificated by CIS (but not according to ICAO Annex  and qualify for SAS (Specific Airworthiness Specification) and Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness.



* A RESTRICTED C of A is for instance issued by the Lithuanian CAA for the Yak-52. It's "value" is similar to the UK CAA Permit to Fly delivered

by the UK CAA :

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSS

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=yak



* For my friend Didier Blouzard who flies a Yak-18T in France, here is a copy of EASA Specific Airworthiness Specification for the Yak-18T :

http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%208%20-%20Airworthiness%20of%20Aircraft/an08_9ed_cnt.pdf



And of course EASA Annex II (NON EASA) aircraft !

Their airworthiness should be controlled on a national basis and in an ideal world logically accepted by other EASA members of course !



Wouldn'it be nice if ALL national aviation authorities (EASA) agreed on common standards to maintain and operate Yaks (and other flying machines) in Europe !!



Is it too much to ask ?



RICHARD, "because you have been involved in this issue in Europe for longer than anyone", can I suggest you use your knowledge to federate and work towards a constructive solution at National/European level that would allow ALL Yak pilots to enjoy their pride and joy without too many restrictions !   



Some people have been foolish enough to play one group of Yak pilots against another one and that was really not a great move.



THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ON THIS (BORING) TOPIC.



Enjoy the summer.



Cheers, Etienne.



http://forum.pegase.tv/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2843&start=75

http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/47

===============================================

[quote="richard.goode(at)russiana"]European registration/certification  

   

I have been involved in this complex issue of registration and certification of Yaks in Europe for longer than anyone â€“ in fact since 1986, so do have a good idea of the issues involved.    

   

Also I have spent a lot of time examining the law â€“ because in the end that is what it comes down to â€“ in different European countries.     

   

As far as the Russian â€œFLAâ€ registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC (FAA/CAA) have confirmation from the Russian Ministry of Transport, themselves responsible for the Russian GSGA (their FAA/CAA) that FLA certification and Certificates of Airworthiness are acceptable and legal.     

   

Given that, I find it puzzling that Etienne goes out of his way to try to show that these registrations are not acceptable, for whatever reasons.   Quite what his motives for being involved in these issues are, I simply do now know.  But I personally would have thought that anyone within the Yak community would do all possible to ensure that as many Yaks as possible continue to fly rather than create potential hurdles that MIGHT in the future prevent them from flying.   

   

Richard Goode Aerobatics  

Rhodds Farm  

Lyonshall  

Herefordshire  

HR5 3LW  

United Kingdom  

   

Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120  

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129  

www.russianaeros.com  

   

        	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Yak-18T EASA.SAS.A.095.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Yak-18T EASA.SAS.A.095.pdf

Filesize:

225.77 KB

Downloaded:

3998 Time(s)

Annex 8 - Aiworthiness - ICAO.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Annex 8 - Aiworthiness - ICAO.pdf

Filesize:

1.07 MB

Downloaded:

16599 Time(s)

_________________
Yak-50 Display Pilot - Airshows - Ð¯ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ² Ð¯Ðº-50
Yak-52 training anywhere - FI(A) Aerobatic Instructor - Specialised Yak-52.
https://www.yakoteam.com/
https://www.yakovlevs.com/the-team/pilots-and-crew/

mougellionel(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:18 pm Post subject: European registration/certification

Hi Etienne  and all



My Yak is and will stay on RA regs after switching from G to RA due to crazy maintenance and mess from UK , but this is another discussion ....



The point where i fully support and agree with Etienne is about the "groups" of Yak owners across Europe , instead of federate each-other in one Federation like the Red Star PA in US , a lot of them prefers to fight on their side which is in my point of view a poor and bad strategy leaded mainly by English or other seller or maintenance facilities to protect their own small little market . 



Sometimes , before thinking of making money , think that you are also pilots , and try to not become like Mister "Gangster" Dziuzas in Lituania ...



Cheers .



Etienne see you in London soon 



Lionel 



RA-3630K 

Yak-Arcachon



Le 15 juil. 2011 à 00:02, Etienne Verhellen a écrit :



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 AIRWORTHINESS / CERTIFICATION / REGISTRATION ... in Europe !

 ============================================

 

 Richard, others,

 

 You are ill-informed.

 

 1. Very briefly, the ONLY reason I became involved in these Airworthiness / Certification / Registration issues was for people flying UK registered Yaks in Belgium to be able to continue to fly their aircraft.

 

 Richard, they were indeed people in the very small Yak community in Belgium trying to create hurdles to prevent UK registered Yaks to be based and flown in Belgium. Sad but true. You know them.

 The fact that they are now blaming me for what is happening is quite ironic.

 

 According to their complaints to the Authorities, flying UK registered Yaks in Belgium was illegal because we only had UK CAA Permit to Fly.

 While they had of course a "full" C of A !

 

 UK registered Yaks were grounded in Belgium or asked to leave the country.

 

 We did find it puzzling that some Yak pilots would go out of their way to try to show that these registrations were not acceptable, for whatever reasons.

 

 Quite what their motives were, I simply do not know.

 Jealousy ?  Money ... the fact that they were setting up a maintenance facility in Namur to maintain "RAxxxxK" registered Yaks in Continental Europe and wanted to have as many UK registered Yaks based on the Continent transfer to "russian" registrations ?

 

 As you are well aware Richard, a lot of UK CAA registered and maintained Yaks do transfer to the "russian" register.

 We have discussed this before together off-list.

 You told me then what you thought about this and I have kept a copy of your e-mails on the subject.

 

 As you can all understand we were NOT amused to have our (UK registered and maintained) Yaks grounded while the Belgian CAA was investigating. Some owners decided to base their aircraft out of Belgium

 or sell.

 

 Believe it or not Richard, ironically, some of us even considered a quick switch to the "russian" register !

 

 After consulting a few people, we were strongly advised against doing it by persons who do spent a lot of time examining the aviation laws in different European countries (UK, France, even Belgium ... EASA).

 

 So we did not because as you write Richard, in the end that is what it comes down to : the law !

 

 Then we fairly quicky managed to convince the Belgian CAA to leave us alone. Good advises from people who know the rules does wonder !

 

 As a consequence of all this BS, the Belgian CAA also had a look at other Yaks based and flying in Belgium :

 

 * with non European / EASA Certificate of Registration.

 

 * with "full" non European EASA  C of A for aircraft not ICAO Annex 8.

 

 * with "russian" pilot licences issued and renewed by a "flying club".

   (the words of a CAA official).  

 

 

 I DID NOT START ALL THIS BS.

 

 We were free to fly our beloved G-xxxx Yaks again.

 

 But a very big can of worms had been opened.

 _____________________________________________________________

 

 2. RICHARD, as far as the Russian "FLA" registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC and EASA are waiting to receive clarifications (from the official Russian Aviation Authorities if possible !) about the status of FLA outside Russia.

 

 In particular regarding the issues of Certificate of Airworthiness / Registration Certificate / Pilot Licences.

 

 Please read page 19 of this report from BEA for the French DGAC :

 http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

 

 On page 18 : C of A delivered by FLA not recognised by Russian CAA :

 http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

 _____________________________________________________________

 

 3. As far as Airworthiness is concerned, it is in fact quite simple Richard.

 If an aircraft has been certificated according to Annex 8 to the Convention of International Civil Aviation, it receives a Certificate of Airworthiness. If not ... well it doesn't.

 

 It is that simple :

 http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%208%20-%20Airworthiness%20of%20Aircraft/an08_9ed_cnt.pdf

 

 This C of A is then recognised in all contracting States.

 

 Russian general aviation aircraft have not been certificated according to Annex 8.

 

 It is not their fault ! It's just the way it is.

 We all agree they are fantastic flying machines.

 

 Consequently, they cannot receive Normal Unrestricted C of A.

 That's the way it is according to International Aviation LAW.

 

 The fact that FLA (whether or not it is recognised by the Russian CAA in and outside CIS) nevertheless issues C of A to these aircraft is a concern to some CAAs.

 

 Just take my word for it on that one Richard.

 

 Su-26, Yak 54 and 55 for instance are not certificated but can qualify for EASA Permits to Fly under 21A.701(15).

 The Flight Conditions for these aircraft are similar to the Airworthiness Approval Notes issued by the UK Civil Aviation Authority.

 

 Other types have been certificated by CIS (but not according to ICAO Annex  and qualify for SAS (Specific Airworthiness Specification) and Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness.

 

 * A RESTRICTED C of A is for instance issued by the Lithuanian CAA for the Yak-52. It's "value" is similar to the UK CAA Permit to Fly delivered

 by the UK CAA :

 http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSS

 http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=yak

 

 * For my friend Didier Blouzard who flies a Yak-18T in France, here is a copy of EASA Specific Airworthiness Specification for the Yak-18T :

 http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Annex%208%20-%20Airworthiness%20of%20Aircraft/an08_9ed_cnt.pdf

 

 And of course EASA Annex II (NON EASA) aircraft !

 Their airworthiness should be controlled on a national basis and in an ideal world logically accepted by other EASA members of course !

 

 Wouldn'it be nice if ALL national aviation authorities (EASA) agreed on common standards to maintain and operate Yaks (and other flying machines) in Europe !!

 

 Is it too much to ask ?

 

 RICHARD, "because you have been involved in this issue in Europe for longer than anyone", can I suggest you use your knowledge to federate and work towards a constructive solution at National/European level that would allow ALL Yak pilots to enjoy their pride and joy without too many restrictions !   

 

 Some people have been foolish enough to play one group of Yak pilots against another one and that was really not a great move.

 

 THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ON THIS (BORING) TOPIC.

 

 Enjoy the summer.

 

 Cheers, Etienne.

 

 http://forum.pegase.tv/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2843&start=75

 http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/47

 ===============================================

 [quote="richard.goode(at)russiana"]European registration/certification  

 

 I have been involved in this complex issue of registration and certification of Yaks in Europe for longer than anyone – in fact since 1986, so do have a good idea of the issues involved.    

 

 Also I have spent a lot of time examining the law – because in the end that is what it comes down to – in different European countries.     

 

 As far as the Russian “FLA” registrations are concerned, the simple fact is that the French DGAC (FAA/CAA) have confirmation from the Russian Ministry of Transport, themselves responsible for the Russian GSGA (their FAA/CAA) that FLA certification and Certificates of Airworthiness are acceptable and legal.     

 

 Given that, I find it puzzling that Etienne goes out of his way to try to show that these registrations are not acceptable, for whatever reasons.   Quite what his motives for being involved in these issues are, I simply do now know.  But I personally would have thought that anyone within the Yak community would do all possible to ensure that as many Yaks as possible continue to fly rather than create potential hurdles that MIGHT in the future prevent them from flying.   

 

 Richard Goode Aerobatics  

 Rhodds Farm  

 Lyonshall  

 Herefordshire  

 HR5 3LW  

 United Kingdom  

 

 Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120  

 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129  

 www.russianaeros.com (http://www.russianaeros.com)  

 

 

> [b]

 

 

 --------

 http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks

 http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&amp;id=6711

 http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html

 http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346381#346381

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/yak_18t_easasasa095_478.pdf

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/annex_8__aiworthiness__icao_156.pdf

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: European registration/certification

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Etienne Verhellen <janie(at)yak52.fr (janie(at)yak52.fr)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "Etienne Verhellen" <janie(at)yak52.fr (janie(at)yak52.fr)>

 

 AIRWORTHINESS / CERTIFICATION / REGISTRATION ... in Europe !

 =================== 	




I may not like the FAA much but I am *SO* glad I am in the US and not the EU. At least we have only one set of stupid rules we have to deal with. 

 

-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

 

  [quote][b]

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

1. Brian is spot on :

"I may not like the FAA much but I am *SO* glad I am in the US and not the EU. At least we have only one set of stupid rules we have to deal with". 

Unfortunately in Europe we have to put up with different rules from one country to another regarding Yak flying   



2. And my friend Lionel is just proving the point !

His nice Yak-52 was registered G-BZJB and maintained under the supervisions of the UK CAA :

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1138672/

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BZJB

then it went to the "russian" register as RA-3630K :

http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22086



The reason people buy UK CAA registered Yaks is because they are in good condition.



But then they switch to "russian" registrations ... for various reasons ...



Richard, I can send you a impressive list of UK registered Yaks that have now transferred to a "russian" registration ...



Richard, can you please tell us why the French CAA is not allowing UK registered Yaks in France but is quite happy with "russian" registrations ?



And one these Yaks are on the "russian" register, they sort of dissapear ...

Page 17 of this document :

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

"Sans obligation dâ€™appartenir au registre franÃ§ais des immatriculations, il nâ€™a pas Ã©tÃ© possible de dÃ©terminer le nombre dâ€™avions immatriculÃ©s 

RA-xxxxK volant en France". !!!

SO, the French CAA has ABSOLUTELY no idea how many "russian" Yaks are based in France !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Well you are the expert but it does not make any sense to me !



Lionel, did you find out the reason the engine of your Yak-52 suddently stop in flight over the beach of Arcachon ??    

http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22125

http://arcachon.blogs.sudouest.fr/archive/2011/03/08/arcachon-se-dote-d-une-nouvelle-piste-d-atterrissage.html

http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/09/l-avion-sur-le-sable-337016-2733.php

http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/10/arcachon-l-avion-est-toujours-sur-la-plage-338424-2733.php

http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/11/arcachon-l-avion-evacue-de-la-plage-338555-2733.php

Was it a maintenance problem ... or something else ??

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: European registration/certification

You are doing an EXCELLENT job of proving everything I said in my last email Mr. Verhellen.  



By the way, I have three generators for sale that will fit your 52.  



Your price:  $100,000    That's for the one with the broken shaft and bad bearings.  



Only the best for a British Airways pilot! 

 



--- On Thu, 7/14/11, Etienne Verhellen <janie(at)yak52.fr> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Etienne Verhellen <janie(at)yak52.fr>

 Subject: Re: European registration/certification

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 7:53 PM

 

 "Etienne Verhellen" <janie(at)yak52.fr>

 

 1. Brian is spot on :

 "I may not like the FAA much but I am *SO* glad I am in the

 US and not the EU. At least we have only one set of stupid

 rules we have to deal with". 

 Unfortunately in Europe we have to put up with different

 rules from one country to another regarding Yak flyingÂ 

  

 

 2. And my friend Lionel is just proving the point !

 His nice Yak-52 was registered G-BZJB and maintained under

 the supervisions of the UK CAA :

 http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1138672/

 http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BZJB

 then it went to the "russian" register as RA-3630K :

 http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22086

 

 The reason people buy UK CAA registered Yaks is because

 they are in good condition.

 

 But then they switch to "russian" registrations ... for

 various reasons ...

 

 Richard, I can send you a impressive list of UK registered

 Yaks that have now transferred to a "russian" registration

 ...

 

 Richard, can you please tell us why the French CAA is not

 allowing UK registered Yaks in France but is quite happy

 with "russian" registrations ?

 

 And one these Yaks are on the "russian" register, they sort

 of dissapear ...

 Page 17 of this document :

 http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

 "Sans obligation dÃ¢â‚¬â„¢appartenir au registre

 franÃƒÂ§ais des immatriculations, il nÃ¢â‚¬â„¢a pas

 ÃƒÂ©tÃƒÂ© possible de dÃƒÂ©terminer le nombre

 dÃ¢â‚¬â„¢avions immatriculÃƒÂ©s 

 RA-xxxxK volant en France". !!!

 SO, the French CAA has ABSOLUTELY no idea how many

 "russian" Yaks are based in France !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 Well you are the expert but it does not make any sense to

 me !

 

 Lionel, did you find out the reason the engine of your

 Yak-52 suddently stop in flight over the beach of Arcachon

 ??Â Â Â  

 http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22125

 http://arcachon.blogs.sudouest.fr/archive/2011/03/08/arcachon-se-dote-d-une-nouvelle-piste-d-atterrissage.html

 http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/09/l-avion-sur-le-sable-337016-2733.php

 http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/10/arcachon-l-avion-est-toujours-sur-la-plage-338424-2733.php

 http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/11/arcachon-l-avion-evacue-de-la-plage-338555-2733.php

 Was it a maintenance problem ... or something else ??Â 

 

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346402#346402

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Forum -

 FAQ,

 Â Â Â - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 List Contribution Web Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: European registration/certification

Mark,

Can I get a discount if I buy all 3?  ))



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 7/15/2011 9:08 AM, Yak Pilot wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 You are doing an EXCELLENT job of proving everything I said in my last email Mr. Verhellen.



 By the way, I have three generators for sale that will fit your 52.



 Your price:  $100,000    That's for the one with the broken shaft and bad bearings.



 Only the best for a British Airways pilot!

 --- On Thu, 7/14/11, Etienne Verhellen<janie(at)yak52.fr>  wrote:



> From: Etienne Verhellen<janie(at)yak52.fr>

> Subject: Re: European registration/certification

> To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2011, 7:53 PM

> 

> "Etienne Verhellen"<janie(at)yak52.fr>

>

> 1. Brian is spot on :

> "I may not like the FAA much but I am *SO* glad I am in the

> US and not the EU. At least we have only one set of stupid

> rules we have to deal with".

> Unfortunately in Europe we have to put up with different

> rules from one country to another regarding Yak flying 

> 

>

> 2. And my friend Lionel is just proving the point !

> His nice Yak-52 was registered G-BZJB and maintained under

> the supervisions of the UK CAA :

> http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1138672/

> http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BZJB

> then it went to the "russian" register as RA-3630K :

> http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22086

>

> The reason people buy UK CAA registered Yaks is because

> they are in good condition.

>

> But then they switch to "russian" registrations ... for

> various reasons ...

>

> Richard, I can send you a impressive list of UK registered

> Yaks that have now transferred to a "russian" registration

> ...

>

> Richard, can you please tell us why the French CAA is not

> allowing UK registered Yaks in France but is quite happy

> with "russian" registrations ?

>

> And one these Yaks are on the "russian" register, they sort

> of dissapear ...

> Page 17 of this document :

> http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

> "Sans obligation dÃ¢â‚¬â„¢appartenir au registre

> franÃƒÂ§ais des immatriculations, il nÃ¢â‚¬â„¢a pas

> ÃƒÂ©tÃƒÂ© possible de dÃƒÂ©terminer le nombre

> dÃ¢â‚¬â„¢avions immatriculÃƒÂ©s

> RA-xxxxK volant en France". !!!

> SO, the French CAA has ABSOLUTELY no idea how many

> "russian" Yaks are based in France !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Well you are the expert but it does not make any sense to

> me !

>

> Lionel, did you find out the reason the engine of your

> Yak-52 suddently stop in flight over the beach of Arcachon

> ??   

> http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=22125

> http://arcachon.blogs.sudouest.fr/archive/2011/03/08/arcachon-se-dote-d-une-nouvelle-piste-d-atterrissage.html

> http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/09/l-avion-sur-le-sable-337016-2733.php

> http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/10/arcachon-l-avion-est-toujours-sur-la-plage-338424-2733.php

> http://www.sudouest.fr/2011/03/11/arcachon-l-avion-evacue-de-la-plage-338555-2733.php

> Was it a maintenance problem ... or something else ?? 

> 

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346402#346402

>

> Forum -

> FAQ,

>     - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

> List Contribution Web Site -

>                -Matt

> Dralle, List Admin.

>

>

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

Mr Bitterlich is probably suffering from "confirmation bias"   



I never wrote that one Register for Yaks in Europe was better than another one. 



I was merely pointing out at the INCONSISTENCIES !



A example : to fly a UK registered Yak with a UK CAA Permit to Fly issued by the UK CAA, in Belgium, you need :



1. to obtain a "Temporary permission to fly over Belgium territory" every year.

2. to pay 89 Euros every year.

3. you are limited to 30 days of flying per year.

4. "each flight has to be notified in advance".

5. "the permission must be carried on board of the aircraft"



To fly a "FLA registered" Yak with a "special" FLA "Certificate of Airworthiness" ( Non ICAO Annex 8 ), in Belgium, you need : 



1. nothing !

2. no restriction !



A UK friend of mine who intends to visit us in Belgium with his UK registered Yak 52 has just asked the Belgian CAA why this difference in treatment ? Watch this space !



Isn't it time national aviation authorities agreed on common standards to maintain and operate Yaks in Europe ?



Or as a minimum, accept each others Permit to Fly / RESTRICTED C of A.



We all know that Mr Bitterlich can be quite opinionated but I can certainly live with that   



And the fact that he does not want to sell his generators to me   



George, please stay on the list.

Autorisation DGTA 2011-2012..pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Autorisation DGTA 2011-2012..pdf

Filesize:

98.21 KB

Downloaded:

790 Time(s)

Attestation DGTA - NavigabilitÃ© Yak 52 G-CBSS.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Attestation DGTA - NavigabilitÃ© Yak 52 G-CBSS.pdf

Filesize:

481.28 KB

Downloaded:

816 Time(s)

FLA Certificate of Airworthiness.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

FLA Certificate of Airworthiness.pdf

Filesize:

273.65 KB

Downloaded:

869 Time(s)

jochen_p(at)rocketmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: European registration/certification

Mr Verhellen, 

  

   Please stop with your bullshit?

 If you have a dispute with some people, then do it off-list.

 It's not amusing.

  

  

 Jochen

  





 [quote][b]

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

Mr Peiper,



Thanks for your message.



I have no dispute with anyone.



http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=524448

http://picasaweb.google.com/janmevis/GeneratorYakEtienne?authkey=Gv1sRgCK3J6qqEsvn-Ag#



Enjoy the summer ... flying if you can   



I agree Mr Peiper, and as I have written before :

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=82933&highlight=european+certification

"I feel this discussion is going nowhere and I suggest we just leave it there".

Jan & Etienne..png

Description:

Filesize:

394.68 KB

Viewed:

68595 Time(s)

Jan - Etienne.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

105.46 KB

Viewed:

68595 Time(s)

Pierre & Jan - Christian - Etienne.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

25.67 KB

Viewed:

68595 Time(s)

thomas_csmith(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:03 am Post subject: European registration/certification

I too would hate to loose George, and know how he feels.  I recently left the aerobatic list because of too much BS and personal messages that would best have been communicated off list.

Tom Smith

 [quote][b]

mougellionel(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: European registration/certification

Instead of fighting each other like the situation i see currently in Europe, i would be preferable to unify people and onwers , not to see smalls gangs of pilots doing nothing or simply talking putting more their cv as signature than usefull informations .

Some english and French guys are pulling the cover to them in order to create or maintain their own maintenance facility , why ? Ra is not enough or people always want more money ? 

As somebody told before , i would be better to be in US instead or France when i see the poor mind of some people ...



Sent by Iphone



Le 16 juil. 2011 Ã  14:00, Thomas Smith <thomas_csmith(at)yahoo.com (thomas_csmith(at)yahoo.com)> a Ã©crit :



[quote]I too would hate to loose George, and know how he feels.  I recently left the aerobatic list because of too much BS and personal messages that would best have been communicated off list.

Tom Smith

  	  Quote: 	
		  



===================================

ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

===================================

ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

===================================

http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

WARNING : If you are flying Yaks in the USA, South Africa, Australia ... etc 

                  i.e. outside Europe, you are lucky, DO NOT bother reading 

                  this. YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED. Don't waste your time. Go 

                  flying. )



Hi Richard,



Have been contacted by 2 pilots from Luxembourg.



They are looking to buy a "Russian registered" Yak-52 in France.

They intend to base their Yak-52 in France or Luxembourg.



My suggestion to them was : DO NOT buy a Yak-52 registered RA-xxxxK

if you intend to base your aircraft in France. (They called me asking me a

lot of questions and my advise to them ...)

 

Not sure if you have talked to them but THEY SAID that according to YOU

there is absolutely no problem with "Russian Registration" in France !



And indeed that is what you write on your website :

http://www.russianaeros.com/

under "Click here for the latest on Registration" :

                      ----------------------------------------------

 Russian registrations  :

____________________ 



Many of these aircraft  still flying in different parts of the world, but principally Europe, have Russian registrations issued by FLA in Moscow.  Some countries, for example UK and Italy, have decided not to accept them on the basis that they SEEM to give Normal Category Certificates of Airworthiness to non-certificated aircraft, but the French DGAC, for example, say that ANY Russian light aircraft which is based in France MUST be registered with FLA.  Also most other European countries seem to accept FLA registration without problems.  Also most other European countries seem to accept FLA registration without problems.

_____________________________________________________________



So you write that the French CAA (DGAC) say that ANY Russian light aircraft which is based in France MUST be registered with FLA and that most other European countries seem to accept FLA registration without problems.



That is absolutely NOT CORRECT and as a highly respected seller of Russian aircraft, you should update your website.



Here is what the French CAA says (in French !) :

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_FR.pdf



And most European DO NOT recognise paperwork (Certificate of Airworthiness, Registration Certificate, Pilot Licences (!) isuued by FLA.

http://www.yakuk.com/UKreg.asp

http://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/img/red/yak/GroundingRussianDirective.pdf

http://www.yakuk.com/GroundingRussianDirective.doc

http://www.pilotundflugzeug.de/img/red/yak/SchreibenFAAR.pdf



In fact the Russian Aviation Authorities have confirmed that FLA (a Flying Club) have absolutely never received any legal authority to issue official Airworthiness documents and Registration certificate and Registration marks, not to mention Russian Pilot Licences !!



Please update your website accordingly as soon as possible Richard.



The 2 pilots from Luxembourg were not really convinced when I told them

on the phone they would probably endup with an aircraft they could not legally fly in Europe IF they bought the Russian registered Yak-52 they were looking at ... 



When I suggested it would probably be better to by a Yak-52 registered in the UK and maintained under the very strict requirements of the UK CAA with all Life items inspections complied with (including those coming from the aircraft manufacturer itself, the Yakovlev Design Bureau)

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD1998-017R5.pdf

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD2002-009R1.pdf

they said I was only saying that because I was probably receiving a sales commission from you (!) or Yak UK (!!) when selling a UK CAA registered Yak ... !!!   



Anyway, here is a nice Yak-52 for sale for flying in Europe :

Yak 52. G-YFUT Â£60,000

http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1300193

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/57851/g-yfut-private-bacau-yak-52/

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=YFUT

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=22760&imid=0

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/aircraft+eqpt-for-sale.htm



Best Wishes, Etienne & Co.

Common standards to maintain and operate Yak-52s in Europe..pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Common standards to maintain and operate Yak-52s in Europe..pdf

Filesize:

108.1 KB

Downloaded:

800 Time(s)

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

Richard,



I know you read French :

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_FR.pdf



But ... have just found the AIC from the French CAA (DGAC) regarding 

"Russian aircraft registered as RA-xxxxK with an airworthiness certificate delivered by the FLA" in English :

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_EN.pdf



(Again, don't bother with all this unless you are flying Yaks in EUROPE.)



And it says :

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_EN.pdf

"Aircraft registered as RA-xxxxK and with an airworthiness certificate delivered by the Russian Federation FLA are not allowed to fly over

the French Republic territory if they have not received a special authorization from the DGAC".



Note Russian registered Yaks were grounded in the past following fatal accidents in France.

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf

http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/b2010_010-2.pdf

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2011/ra-k110424/pdf/ra-k110424.pdf



Please update your website regarding Russian Registration Richard.

http://www.russianaeros.com/index.html

http://www.russianaeros.com/Registration%20issue.htm



Maybe one day some common standards in Europe ... don't hold your breath   

http://forums.matronics.com//files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_original_363.pdf

http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/downloadPDF.php?id=14895&pages=497523

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: European registration/certification

Thanks for pointing it out. We try to keep the website up-to-date, but do

not always succeed!



Regards



Richard



Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 

 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is

+94 779 132 160.

--

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

You're welcome Richard.



I know the French and German CAAs (DGAC & LBA respectively) are talking to the UK CAA regarding this. 

And A.S. Yakovlev Design Bureau in Moscow !



The UK CAA has established maintenance requirements approved by the Design Authority, Yakovlev :

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD1998-017R5.pdf

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD2002-009R1.pdf

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/FIRM/hist3.php

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/MIX/contacts.php

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/SERV/engineering.php

and compliance with ALL Service Bulletins and replacement or overhaul of all LIFED ITEMS :

http://www.russianaeros.com/yak52product.htm

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm

"When the overhaul life is reached or when an overhaul is required as part of the annual inspection, 

an overhaul must be carried out in accordance with technical documentation approved by the Design Authority, Yakovlev, 

and the aeroplane released for a further period of service as specified in the approved documentation".



These very thorough maintenance requirements established by the UK CAA is the reason why a lot of pilots on the Continent 

(and also from the USA, Australia, South Africa, ...) buy UK registered Yaks :

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=HYAK

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CUPS

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=HOGZ

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=ETHI

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CUPS

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CDFE

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSN

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBRU

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBLJ

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=BWVX

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBPY

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBRL

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CCCP

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=YAKO

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=yak-52&dereg=true&pageIndex=2

Etc ... etc ... !!!!



BEFORE transferring to "Russian" registration (in Continental Europe : France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, etc ...) 

to avoid the very very high costs associated with the UK maintenance requirements.



At least there are starting with a clean ship !



Most of the time ...

As you know (we have discussed this before) there were at least 2 occasions with Yaks declared UNairworthy by the UK CAA 

because of main wing spar corrosion (!) who have received FLA Airworthiness documentation 

AND "Russian" registration after their transfer on the Continent (with no corrective maintenance carried out).

I am sure that you will agree with me on this Richard :

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE of course. Possibly criminal !



And that's why I recommended to the 2 pilots from Luxembourg (or any Yak pilot based in Europe) to buy

UK registered Yak instead of a RA-xxxxK Yak, 

especially if they intend to base their Yak in France !

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_EN.pdf

At least, they can be sure that ALL Service Bulletins and replacement or overhaul of ALL Lifed Items HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.

http://www.russianaeros.com/yak52product.htm 

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm 



Like on this one from my friend Bob Oliver :

http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1300193 

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/57851/g-yfut-private-bacau-yak-52/ 

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=YFUT 

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=22760&imid=0 

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/aircraft+eqpt-for-sale.htm 

Best regards, Etienne. (G-CBSS !) 



http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSS

 



Lucky they are to be EXPERIMENTAL in the US of A ... and other places.

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: European registration/certification

In France, RA-xxxxK registered Yaks can continue until September 3.

At least the French authorities were so kind to provide a solution: French

Yak 52 owners can get a temporary registration until a complete solution

Will be defined (2013 ?).

This is in large contrast to Belgium and Germany where the authorities

"simply" grounded all the RA-xxxxK Yaks.



Europe, united? Never Š



Jan





On 15/08/12 17:51, "Etienne Verhellen" <janie(at)yak52.fr> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



You're welcome Richard.



I know the French and German CAAs (DGAC & LBA respectively) are talking

to the UK CAA regarding this.

And A.S. Yakovlev Design Bureau in Moscow !



The UK CAA has established maintenance requirements approved by the

Design Authority, Yakovlev :

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD1998-017R5.pdf

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD2002-009R1.pdf

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/FIRM/hist3.php

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/MIX/contacts.php

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/SERV/engineering.php

and compliance with ALL Service Bulletins and replacement or overhaul of

all LIFED ITEMS :

http://www.russianaeros.com/yak52product.htm

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm

"When the overhaul life is reached or when an overhaul is required as

part of the annual inspection,

an overhaul must be carried out in accordance with technical

documentation approved by the Design Authority, Yakovlev,

and the aeroplane released for a further period of service as specified

in the approved documentation".



These very thorough maintenance requirements established by the UK CAA is

the reason why a lot of pilots on the Continent

(and also from the USA, Australia, South Africa, ...) buy UK registered

Yaks :

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=HYAK

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CUPS

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=HOGZ

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=ETHI

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CUPS

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CDFE

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSN

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBRU

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBLJ

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=BWVX

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBPY

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBRL

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CCCP

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=YAKO

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=su

mmary&aircrafttype=yak-52&dereg=true&pageIndex=2

Etc ... etc ... !!!!



BEFORE transferring to "Russian" registration (in Continental Europe :

France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, etc ...)

to avoid the very very high costs associated with the UK maintenance

requirements.



At least there are starting with a clean ship !



Most of the time ...

As you know (we have discussed this before) there were at least 2

occasions with Yaks declared UNairworthy by the UK CAA

because of main wing spar corrosion (!) who have received FLA

Airworthiness documentation

AND "Russian" registration after their transfer on the Continent (with no

corrective maintenance carried out).

I am sure that you will agree with me on this Richard :

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE of course. Possibly criminal !



And that's why I recommended to the 2 pilots from Luxembourg (or any Yak

pilot based in Europe) to buy

UK registered Yak instead of a RA-xxxxK Yak,

especially if they intend to base their Yak in France !

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/aicfrancea/AIC_A_2012_08_E

N.pdf

At least, they can be sure that ALL Service Bulletins and replacement or

overhaul of ALL Lifed Items HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.

http://www.russianaeros.com/yak52product.htm

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm



Like on this one from my friend Bob Oliver :

http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1300193

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/57851/g-yfut-private-bacau-yak-52/

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=YFUT

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=22760&imid=0

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/aircraft+eqpt-for-sale.htm

Best regards, Etienne. (G-CBSS !)



http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de

tailnosummary&fullregmark=CBSS

 [Wink]



Lucky they are to be EXPERIMENTAL in the US of A ... and other places. 



--------

http://persoon.yasni.be/etienne+verhellen+1315762

http://flightplanet.com/other_advert_det.php?id=146





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380969#380969

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:59 am Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

Initially posted under the wrong heading.

Should have been posted here :



Yak - Russian aircraft EUROPEAN Registration/Certification 

===========================================

http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/faq/general-aviation-FAQ.php#11



Hello Didier !  



Have just read in 'Aviation & Pilote' (Numero 469 - Fevrier 2013)

that a member of your association A.P.P.A.R.

http://www.net1901.org/association/ASSOCIATION-DE-PILOTES-PROPRIETAIRES-DAVIONS-RUSSES-APPAR,980665.html

Mr Dominique LUCAS

http://wonder-wings.fr/index.php?part=13

wants to drag the French CAA (DGAC) into Court :



'L'APPAR veut ester en justice'. (See below)



Definitely NOT a good idea.  



Fact : the French CAA has grounded RA-xxxxK registerd Yaks.



Fact : the French CAA is working on a solution ...



https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier%5Caicfrancea%5CAIC_A_2012_08_FR.pdf

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier%5Caicfrancea%5CAIC_A_2012_08_EN.pdf



Temporary Registration (F-WRxx) have been issued, like this one for instance to Jacques PESCHEL (Andernos) : 

F-WRUM issued to Yak-52 previously 'registered by FLA' RA-1808K

http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=16085

http://www.planecheck.com/eu/image.asp?Imgname=16085/img011094172923.jpg

http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=20360



Mr Benoit PINON and Thomas IACONO from the French CAA are trying to help !



If you guys think it will 'help' to drag these two gentlemen into court ... 

you are wrong. BIG TIME.



They are solutions. They are Yaks currently flying in France ...



DGAC seems to accept Restricted Lithuanian C. of A. (equivalent to a 'Permit to Fly'), for instance Yak-52

LY-ASQ (Olivier Vigneron - Haguenau LFSH) :

http://www.aileshistoriquesdurhin.fr/a%C3%A9ronefs/yakovlev-yak-52-ly-asq/#



And UK CAA 'Permit to Fly', for instance Yak-52 G-YYAK based at Lille-Lesquin :

http://www.pictaero.com/fr/pictures/picture,182997

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=YYAK

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/g-ak100612/pdf/g-ak100612.pdf

http://www.flyredstar.org/gallery2/Yak/Lens2012.jpg



OSAC has recently issued CNRAC to Yak-50 of my friend Jan Mevis (F-AZUK) equipped with a M-14R (450 HP!!), only one in the world ! 

http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/patrimoines/images/stories/Patrimoine/aeronautique/meetings/compiegne2012/img_6853.jpg

and Yak-50 F-AZXK based at Compiegne-Margny (60) :

http://www.pyperpote.tonsite.biz/patrimoines/images/stories/Patrimoine/aeronautique/meetings/compiegne2012/img_6848.jpg

"F-AZUK","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","801807","COMPIEGNE-MARGNY","MEVIS JAN","22/05/2012","

"F-AZXK","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","863201","COMPIEGNE-MARGNY","KUYPERS PETER HENRICUS","22/05/2012",

(before "F-AZYO","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","3201","CAEN CARPIQUET","LANGEARD OLIVIER","04/10/2004","11/12/2006","VENDU A L'ETRANGER (PAYS BAS)")

They are quite a few Yaks with CNRAC in France :



"F-AZFG","YAKOVLEV","YAK 18 A","1609","ST RAMBERT D'ALBON","FRANCESCHETTI FRANCOIS","01/06/1988",

"F-AZYP","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","2008","CHAVENAY-VILLEPREUX","INVERNIZZI PATRICE","28/06/2005",

"F-AZYZ","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","2507","PONT SUR YONNE","ALLOUCHE ALEXANDRE","04/05/2007",

"F-AZZA","YAKOVLEV","YAK 50","2103","CHAVENAY-VILLEPREUX","DUMON NICOLAS"," etc ... etc ...



and with French Registration delivered by the French CAA

after compliance with the required maintenance prescribed by the Yakovlev Design bureau. (YDB)

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-50%20Service%20Bulletins%20-%20list.htm

http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-50%20Service%20Bulletins%20after%20crashes.htm

http://www.yakuk.com/MPD2002-009R1.pdf

http://www.yak.ru/ENG/MIX/contacts.php



Of course, it would make sense to have all the ALL the Yaks flying in Europe maintained and operated under common agreed standards !

http://forums.matronics.com//files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_original_363.pdf

http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/downloadPDF.php?id=14895&pages=497523

http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/faq/general-aviation-FAQ.php#11



Maybe one day ! Don't hold your breath !



But attacking Mr Thomas IACONO and Me Benoit PINON from the French CAA (DGAC) is CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO HELP your cause Didier !



Trust me on that one ! 



This apply primarily to Yak-50/Yak-52 based in Europe.



By the way Didier, your Yak-18T has been certificated by CIS and qualify for SAS and Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness. (idem for Su-29 and Su-31). 

See EASA SPECIFIC AIRWORTHINESS SPECIFICATION !!!! (SAS):

http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/docs/sas/A.094/EASA-SAS-A.094_Su--31-02-21062011.pdf

http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/docs/sas/A.093/EASA-SAS-A.093_Su--29-02-21062011.pdf

http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/faq/general-aviation-FAQ.php#11



ENJOY your FLYING !



http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i352/Mark_Salter/IMG_2418_2.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i352/Mark_Salter/Img_2406_2.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i352/Mark_Salter/Img_2377_2.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i352/Mark_Salter/IMG_2477_3_1.jpg

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46362



http://www.flyredstar.org/gallery2/Yak/Michae-de-Boer_48.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com/files/img_6467_photo_flying_days_zoersel_18_augustus_2012_frank_etienne_stephen_890.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com/files/2010_05_15_tom_houquet_10_942.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/photo/2216133/L/

Iacono-Pinon-DGAC-APPAR..jpg

Description:

Filesize:

236.99 KB

Viewed:

57940 Time(s)

EASAS SPECIFIC AIRWORTHINESS SPECIFICATION for Yak-18T - EASA-SAS-A.093_Su--29-02-21062011.pdf

Description:

EASA Specific Airworthiness Specification (SAS) for Yak-18T.

Download

Filename:

EASAS SPECIFIC AIRWORTHINESS SPECIFICATION for Yak-18T - EASA-SAS-A.093_Su--29-02-21062011.pdf

Filesize:

40.31 KB

Downloaded:

596 Time(s)

Common Standards to maintain Russian aircraft in Europe..pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Common Standards to maintain Russian aircraft in Europe..pdf

Filesize:

108.1 KB

Downloaded:

499 Time(s)

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: Re: European registration/certification

Hello,



EASA has issued a modified SAS 095 in February for the 18 T reducing the "lifetime" from 5000 hours to 3500. Even though the Smolensk factory says 7000 hours !!! So who is right ???  I can imagine who the guy is at EASA responsible for this B.S. . Does anybody have an idea what the TO-1000 or -2000 checks mean as shown in the Smolensk pages ? I will try to contact Yakovlev to get their view of things.

  As 52s and other Yaks except 18 T, 54 and 55, never had a certification so donÂ´t expect to obtain unlimited flying in Europe or America (experimental). You will have a Permit to Fly to be accepted by  each NAA whenever you cross borders. Some Yaks have returned to Lithuanian reg, some gone to San Marino in Italy, and there is an attractive solution in Poland now, all to EASA standards. New cerificates have been issued now for 18 Ts in the German register after dereg from LY, no limitations but no commercial use. So maybe you might try an intermediate registration elsewhere and force French CAA later to accept an "official" dereg from there to have a new French Permit to Fly to EASA standards then. 



Vic



http://easa.europa.eu/certification/products/SAS-aircraft.php



http://www.smaz.ru/eng/avia/services.php#jak18



http://www.smaz.ru/eng/avia/jak18t.php

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 1 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum