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JobeCreek
Joined: 17 Aug 2012
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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I have a 701ch with a 914 rotax. When parked, with full fuel, the aircraft will, on the slightest provocation (i.e. with the elevator down and a slight tailwind), sit on it’s tail with the nosewheel in the air. Even with the stick tied back, I will still find the aircraft tipped up.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Solutions.
Also, I find that as I slow the aircraft to about 60 mph I start to get a lot of oilcanning and the aircraft shakes although nowhere near a stall. Ideas?
Thanks.
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Tommy Walker
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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Suggest you perform a weight and balance function to determine the CG. I built two 701s and that is not normal The oil canning is built in. Some builders put cross bracing between the longerons but I think it would be difficult after built.....
Tommy walker
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 17, 2012, at 6:17 PM, "JobeCreek" <AnIdleKing(at)att.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
I have a 701ch with a 914 rotax. When parked, with full fuel, the aircraft will, on the slightest provocation (i.e. with the elevator down and a slight tailwind), sit on it’s tail with the nosewheel in the air. Even with the stick tied back, I will still find the aircraft tipped up.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Solutions.
Also, I find that as I slow the aircraft to about 60 mph I start to get a lot of oilcanning and the aircraft shakes although nowhere near a stall. Ideas?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381110#381110
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Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL |
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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Sounds like you might have a tail heavy situation. My scratch build 701/912UL plane has no issues with tipping on its tail. Is it possible you have slack in the main landing gear mouting? That could allow you main gear to shift forward at the bottom and essentially shift your CofG back with relation to the gear. If not, you must be tail heavy for some reason. Is your battery mounted far back in the tail?
As for the oil canning, I haven't noticed my plane rattle too much around 60. If I get down well below 50 It rattles a bit. Did you put diagnal "L"s in the tail section when you built it? Those large flat panels make great drums if you don't have the extra "L"s in place. They were never on the plans but just about everybody installs them.
Doug M
CH-701 from scratch
NW Ontario, Canada
From: JobeCreek <AnIdleKing(at)att.net>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:17:39 PM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "JobeCreek" <AnIdleKing(at)att.net (AnIdleKing(at)att.net)>
I have a 701ch with a 914 rotax. When parked, with full fuel, the aircraft will, on the slightest provocation (i.e. with the elevator down and a slight tailwind), sit on it’s tail with the nosewheel in the air. Even with the stick tied back, I will still find the aircraft tipped up.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Solutions.
Also, I find that as I slow the aircraft to about 60 mph I start to get a lot of oilcanning and the aircraft shakes although nowhere near a stall. Ideas?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381110#381110
http://forums.matronics.nbsp; --> h=
[quote][b]
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nyterminat(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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What are your weights on each wheel? I have not had this problem. You shouldn't especially with a 914. Bob Spudis
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
JobeCreek <AnIdleKing(at)att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "JobeCreek" <AnIdleKing(at)att.net>
I have a 701ch with a 914 rotax. When parked, with full fuel, the aircraft will, on the slightest provocation (i.e. with the elevator down and a slight tailwind), sit on it’s tail with the nosewheel in the air. Even with the stick tied back, I will still find the aircraft tipped up.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Solutions.
Also, I find that as I slow the aircraft to about 60 mph I start to get a lot of oilcanning and the aircraft shakes although nowhere near a stall. Ideas?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381110#381110
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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I had this kinda happen once. The plane was nearly empty EXCEPT for about 8 gallons of water and soda pushed into the back of the baggage compartment and I was puling on the tail.John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 5:13 PM, nyterminat(at)aol.com (nyterminat(at)aol.com) <nyterminat(at)aol.com (nyterminat(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]What are your weights on each wheel? I have not had this problem. You shouldn't especially with a 914. Bob Spudis
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
JobeCreek <AnIdleKing(at)att.net ([email]lt%3BAnIdleKing(at)att.net[/email])> wrote:
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "JobeCreek" <AnIdleKing(at)att.net (AnIdleKing(at)att.net)>
I have a 701ch with a 914 rotax. When parked, with full fuel, the aircraft will, on the slightest provocation (i.e. with the elevator down and a slight tailwind), sit on it’s tail with the nosewheel in the air. Even with the stick tied back, I will still find the aircraft tipped up.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas? Solutions.
Also, I find that as I slow the aircraft to about 60 mph I start to get a lot of oilcanning and the aircraft shakes although nowhere near a stall. Ideas?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381110#381110
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JobeCreek
Joined: 17 Aug 2012
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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Thanks to all so far. Will check the gear attachment. Interesting idea.
And redo weight and balance.
Further ideas welcome
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dashwood
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 73
Location: sw ontario canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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with half to full fuel i can push the tail to the ground and it flops back onto the nose wheel.. if it has very little fuel.. it will stay in the nose up ,tail on the ground.. makes for easier washing of wings sometimes.
i only had a flying weight issue once when i was transporting a car battery for a friend.. in the back compartment... prolly was 30 to 40 lbs. and at the limits.. don't recall but prolly was light on fuel that day too.. i throttled up and pulled back on stick... plane didn't move just sat down on her tail and stuck the tydown into the dirt.. moved the batery more forward. and was all good to go
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Ross Alexander: CH701 driver 912ul 788tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money |
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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You may want to re-check your weight and balance. The only way I can get my tail to "stick" is with empty fuel and full baggage load (like you did).
As soon as I add a person the CG will not allow that to happen. Adding enough fuel to fly centers it even more.
Good luck!
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:54 PM, dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com (dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dashwood" <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com (dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com)>
with half to full fuel i can push the tail to the ground and it flops back onto the nose wheel.. if it has very little fuel.. it will stay in the nose up ,tail on the ground.. makes for easier washing of wings sometimes.
i only had a flying weight issue once when i was transporting a car battery for a friend.. in the back compartment... prolly was 30 to 40 lbs. and at the limits.. don't recall but prolly was light on fuel that day too.. i throttled up and pulled back on stick... plane didn't move just sat down on her tail and stuck the tydown into the dirt.. moved the batery more forward. and was all good to go
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 589tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money
Read this topic online here:
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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL |
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Likewise I have no W&B issues with my 701. To be tail heavy I would have to overload the baggage bay.
Ross, you might want to make sure your main gear is not flopping around as this could cause you ground CofG to shift on you and allow the tail to hit the ground.
Doug M
CH-701
From: John Marzulli <john.marzulli(at)gmail.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Re: 701 TIPS ONTO TAIL
You may want to re-check your weight and balance. The only way I can get my tail to "stick" is with empty fuel and full baggage load (like you did).
As soon as I add a person the CG will not allow that to happen. Adding enough fuel to fly centers it even more.
Good luck!
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:54 PM, dashwood <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com (dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "dashwood" <dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com (dashwoodlock(at)hotmail.com)>
with half to full fuel i can push the tail to the ground and it flops back onto the nose wheel.. if it has very little fuel.. it will stay in the nose up ,tail on the ground.. makes for easier washing of wings sometimes.
i only had a flying weight issue once when i was transporting a car battery for a friend.. in the back compartment... prolly was 30 to 40 lbs. and at the limits.. don't recall but prolly was light on fuel that day too.. i throttled up and pulled back on stick... plane didn't move just sat down on her tail and stuck the tydown into the dirt.. moved the batery more forward. and was all good to go
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 589tt
It only takes two things to fly, airspeed and money
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386258#386258
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