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Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

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moose8154

Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Hi,



My shower of sparks stopped working... Can someone give me some tips on how to proceed to troubleshoot this issue?



Thanks,



Olivier

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Olivier,

   

  If all your wiring is good, there is not much you can do to "repair" the "shower of sparks" vibrator.  You may open it up and clean it out but I doubt you'll get much of a change.  You'll most likely have to replace it.

   

  Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

   

   

   

   

  

  

  --

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

We offer a solid state replacement. Contact off list.

George coy



Sent from my iPad



On Aug 19, 2012, at 7:04 AM, "\"" <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:



[quote] Olivier,

   

  If all your wiring is good, there is not much you can do to "repair" the "shower of sparks" vibrator.  You may open it up and clean it out but I doubt you'll get much of a change.  You'll most likely have to replace it.

   

  Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

   

   

   

   

  

  

  --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Most of the time the problem is the wire from the starting coil to the 

left mag.   The way to check it is to remove the wire from the left 

magneto cap.  Then follow this procedure.

- Make sure the main air valve is turned off

- Squeeze the brake handle until you no longer hear the "woosh" sound 

when you release the brakes.  (you are making sure there is no air 

forward of the main air valve.  You'll understand why in just a minute.)

- Now hold (or have someone hold) the end of the starting coil wire 

approximately 3/8" to 1/2" away from any bare metal around the engine.  

Use a pair of pliers to hold the wire and be at least 6" from the end of 

the wire.

- In the cockpit, turn on the BATT and IGN switches.  (remember, there 

is no air in the system now FORWARD of the main air valve).

- In the cockpit, press the START button.  The engine will not rotate 

(no air), but the starting coil wire should arc to ground. It normally 

should jump about 3/8" - 1/2" if the wire is good. Move the tip of the 

wire closer to see at what point the spark from the tip jumps.  If it 

does not jump the 3/8" - 1/2", replace the wire (easy to do on the Yak 

50) and repeat the test.  The wire is 7 mm and you can buy 10' of it on 

this web site. http://www.mfgsupply.com/24-8775.html



Check the points inside the starting coil case.



- Remove the cover of the starting coil and look for a small set of 

points on the brown coil.  If the points have "mounds" built up, use a 

point file GENTLY to clean the mound off the points. Once the points are 

cleaned you can actually adjust the spark by adjusting the point 

opening.  While holding the starting coil wire close to ground again, 

rotate the knob by the points in the starting coil unit while someone 

presses the START button in the cockpit and adjust the gap until the 

spark jumps about 3/8" inch or so.



Hope this helps.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 8/19/2012 6:04 AM, " wrote:

[quote] Olivier,

 If all your wiring is good, there is not much you can do to "repair" 

 the "shower of sparks" vibrator.  You may open it up and clean it out 

 but I doubt you'll get much of a change. You'll most likely have to 

 replace it.

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

 --

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

And I confirm that this works VERY well, I replaced mine recently with George's solution. Since then, flawless and immediate startup!

Jan

From:  george coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>

Reply-To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date:  Sunday 19 August 2012 14:46

To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject:  Re: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

We offer a solid state replacement. Contact off list.

George coy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 19, 2012, at 7:04 AM, "\"" <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]Olivier,

If all your wiring is good, there is not much you can do to "repair" the "shower of sparks" vibrator.  You may open it up and clean it out but I doubt you'll get much of a change.  You'll most likely have to replace it.

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

--

moose8154

Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 4

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Thanks everybody,

I checked the resistance of the cable between the vibrator and the mag: 2.4 ohm.

Even after cutting the tip that didn't look so good, it is still the same, so I'll try changing that first.



Olivier

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

So why do you think that the cable is the problem, with 2.4 ohm (measured)?

Do you get a good spark from the shower-of-sparks-device (using Dennis's

method)?

It is not uncommon for ignition cables to have some electrical resistance.

That resistance can be rather high, in the hundreds of ohms, with the new

type of cables (i.e. The 8 mm spiro wound).



Jan



On 20/08/12 02:44, "moose8154" <olivier_langeard(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks everybody,

I checked the resistance of the cable between the vibrator and the mag:

2.4 ohm.

Even after cutting the tip that didn't look so good, it is still the

same, so I'll try changing that first.



Olivier





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381293#381293

moose8154

Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 4

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

No spark whatsoever...

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:16 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Then it's the shower-of-sparks-device.

These things are getting old, I'd replace it with George Coy's electronic

device.



Jan



On 20/08/12 11:33, "moose8154" <olivier_langeard(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



No spark whatsoever...





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381321#381321

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Before you assume it is a starting coil failure, do you hear a 'buzz' 

coming from the starting coil assembly when you press the start button?  

Next, remove the cover on the starting coil assembly and have someone 

press the start button (remember, main air off and all air bled from the 

system using the brake handle) and you watch the points on the starting 

coil to see if they are arcing.  If they are, replace the wire. It is by 

far more common for the starting coil wire to go bad than the starting 

coil itself.  Especially if it is one of the original wires because the 

rubber on the wire deteriorates and cracks causing the wire to arc to 

the shielding (ground).    If the points are not arcing, then by all 

means replace the starting coil with George Coy's unit.

Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 8/20/2012 5:13 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Then it's the shower-of-sparks-device.

 These things are getting old, I'd replace it with George Coy's electronic

 device.

 Jan

 On 20/08/12 11:33, "moose8154" <olivier_langeard(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

>

> No spark whatsoever...

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381321#381321

>

>

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

As usual, that makes perfect sense, Dennis!



Jan



On 20/08/12 13:15, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



Before you assume it is a starting coil failure, do you hear a 'buzz'

coming from the starting coil assembly when you press the start button?

Next, remove the cover on the starting coil assembly and have someone

press the start button (remember, main air off and all air bled from the

system using the brake handle) and you watch the points on the starting

coil to see if they are arcing.  If they are, replace the wire. It is by

far more common for the starting coil wire to go bad than the starting

coil itself.  Especially if it is one of the original wires because the

rubber on the wire deteriorates and cracks causing the wire to arc to

the shielding (ground).    If the points are not arcing, then by all

means replace the starting coil with George Coy's unit.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 8/20/2012 5:13 AM, Jan Mevis wrote:

> 

>

> Then it's the shower-of-sparks-device.

> These things are getting old, I'd replace it with George Coy's

>electronic

> device.

>

> Jan

>

> On 20/08/12 11:33, "moose8154" <olivier_langeard(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>> 

>><olivier_langeard(at)hotmail.com>

>>

>> No spark whatsoever...

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Read this topic online here:

>>

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381321#381321

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Hello Olivier,



just in case you may prefer the old style non electronic buzzer coil, military grade, real fat spark, I could supply them at $ 100.- inc. shipping. They turn up a few times a year, new old stock and work perfectly - a bit more weight but a lot more durable, see below :

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=74605&highlight=buzzer+coil



Cheers

Vic

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Nice stuff!



Jan



On 20/08/12 15:05, "Vic" <vicmolnar(at)aol.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hello Olivier,



just in case you may prefer the old style non electronic buzzer coil,

military grade, real fat spark, I could supply them at $ 100.- inc.

shipping. They turn up a few times a year, new old stock and work

perfectly - a bit more weight but a lot more durable, see below :

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=74605&highlight=buzzer+coil



Cheers

Vic





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381338#381338

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

The starting coil on both the YAK-50 and the CJ6A are identical.

Totally interchangeable.  The spark coils develop continuous spark

energy when the starting button is depressed.  They require 28 Volts

D.C. to be applied before they will operate, thus good troubleshooting

procedure is to first make sure that you are getting 28 VDC TO THE

STARTING COIL ITSELF (!!!) before you replace it with a new one.  This

is not too hard to do, and if you look at it, this should become pretty

obvious.  



Next:  A coil like this does not operate with pure "D.C." per se.

Instead it needs some form of Alternating Current" to make it work.

This allows the coils magnetic field to move ... as in expand and

collapse.... so that it passes through the "coil of wires" in order to

INDUCE energy into the secondary winding and ramp it up to really

serious voltage.  Enough to make a spark jump through the air. This is

done with a very simple design called a "buzzer".  



A "buzzer" is simply a small relay type of device wired so that when the

contacts are closed, voltage is supplied to the RELAY coil, (not the

main coil which makes the high voltage, but a much smaller one) which

then creates its own magnetic field pulling the contacts open.  This

breaks the circuit, the magnetic field goes away, and the contacts close

thus completing the circuit again and the cycle repeats.  This creates a

BUZZING sound when it is operating.  This buzzer contact is tapped and

then feeds the MAIN coil.  This then creates a SQUARE WAVE of voltage

fed to the main coil (On and off.  On and off) which is in fact a form

of AC energy, allowing the coil to create a continuous output (more or

less).  



The "contacts" in the "Shower of Sparks Coil" (or whatever you want to

call it) are in fact easily visible and are in fact adjustable.  There

is a little wheel on one end that sets the "gap" between these points. 



If memory serves me .... you can take off an inspection plate and get at

these points yourself.  Use some kind of marker so that you can put

things back where they were to begin with, and try rotating this wheel

to adjust the point gap.  If the unit starts working again (buzzing),

you can adjust that gap for the biggest spark you can get at a plug.  



Of course replacement is very easy, and I also *HIGHLY* recommend George

Coy's replacement, however ... if you want to go with the exact original

also check Doug Sapp.  He used to sell them for the CJ-6A, and as I

said, those are identical to what is used in YAK's and Sukhoi's for that

matter. 



Mark Bitterlich



--

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

I have the stock Russian/Chinese boost coils in stock.  Contact me off line if I can help.



Best from Omak,

Doug



On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Vic <vicmolnar(at)aol.com (vicmolnar(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Vic" <vicmolnar(at)aol.com (vicmolnar(at)aol.com)>

  

 Hello Olivier,

 

 just in case you may prefer the old style non electronic buzzer coil, military grade, real fat spark, I could supply them at $ 100.- inc. shipping. They turn up a few times a year, new old stock and work perfectly - a bit more weight but a lot more durable, see below :

  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=74605&highlight=buzzer+coil

 

 Cheers

 Vic

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381338#381338

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Yes a great system! It worked well in the early Model"T" Fords. They had 4

spark coils lined up, one for each cylinder and you could see them buzzing

away while driving. Not giving away my age, but I once drove one from New

York City to Vermont. 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

George, as a kid, my Mom would always complain about the squirrels

eating the food out of her birdfeeders.  I wired one of those things up

using two parallel wires to the birdfeeder tray.  I told my Mom to turn

on the switch when she saw the squirrel sitting there pilfering the

seeds and such.  That little sucker would go straight up!  I mean, do

not pass go!  That squirrel launched like an Atlas Rocket!  



My Mom loved this. 



Of course she didn't love it when I wired the same device up to the

metal studs in the wooden seats used in my Junior High School

auditorium.  It had the same effect on a lot of students when I fired it

up during a sports award ceremony.  Got suspended for that move ... well

worth it though.  



That was the beginning of my career in electronics.  



Model T Spark Coil... gotta love it!  



Mark

--

pilko2(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

Love the Squirrel launcher !



Brought back memories of an incident in the early 70's when I was a

committed Drag Racer.



In a big headed demonstration of the superior spark produced by my tricked

up 8 cylinder Vertex Scintilla race magneto I gripped it in the bench vice

and attached the power drill to the drive shaft. I then took #1 plug lead

attached a loose spark plug and earthed the plug body to the vice being

careful to hold it with non metallic, insulated fibre plug grips held for

good measure (and effect) in a leather welding gauntlet. Stay with me

here..... 'cos I know you can see it coming. The result was an extremely

impressive vivid blue discharge across the electrodes and this is when I

made the mistake of resting my left uninsulated hand on the all steel bench

top. This would have been a benign event but for the unfortunate coincidence

of HT leads #2 through #8 resting against my right inner leg spanning from

crotch, clothed in Levi 501's with metal studs, to just south of my knee.



My race car could cover quarter mile in just under 10 seconds from a

standing start.... my standing start launch was somewhat faster, Usain Bolt

wouldn't have stood a chance ............



kp



 

--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

EXCUSE ME!!!!!  But I haven't laughed so hard in a long while!

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: Yak-50 ignition troubleshooting

ROFLMAO! Brings back memories of MMO and the neighbors' cat! Hmmm...electrify my garage floor ought really launch that pesky maker of cat tracks on my sports car!

Doc

Little car! 

Sent from my iPad



On Aug 21, 2012, at 10:54 AM, "kevin pilling" <pilko2(at)btinternet.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Love the Squirrel launcher !

 

 Brought back memories of an incident in the early 70's when I was a

 committed Drag Racer.

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