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FlagFly heel brake improvement

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undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

G'day Kolb drivers,



I did a mod to my Matco heel brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to be 

one of those YES!!! moments.  Reaching for my brakes required a very 

unnatural thrusting my heels forward all the while trying to steer with 

the rudder pedal.  The way my knees are bent while sitting in the FF 

made it a difficult thing to do.  So I went about trying to improve the 

situation.



First I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the one side 

concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them to the pedals. Felt 

a lot better in use, but in a short time one of them came off, so I 

removed the other one, too.



Flew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent fix, 

so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that the diameter of the brake 

pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I trucked over 

to Home Depot and browsed through related items to try to find something 

which would fit over the pedals and not have to be glued on.  And there 

they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to cap off an inch and a 

half PVC pipe.



Bought two and brought them home.  Measured the inside depth and cut two 

pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my radial 

arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut.  I pushed the pieces of 

PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed 

them onto the brake pedals.  Tightening the clamps then compresses the 

edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal while the 

downward force is transmitted from your heel to the pedal via the PVC 

pipe.  A very solid function.



I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and 

finding none, climbed in and worked the brakes and rudders.  Not only 

does it allow my foot to position perfectly, the rubber creates a 

slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car.



So, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with your heel 

brakes, maybe you can give this a try.  About five bucks and fifteen 

minutes is all it takes.



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK



BTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, 

and although I don't know how it would handle without, it flies so great 

with them I wouldn't change a thing!!

209GS

Joined: 07 Dec 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Richmond Va.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Can you post pics?

_________________
Gerry Uebbing
Firestar II 503 b-box
(not flying yet)

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Hello Gerry,



What I could show you in a picture installed could be seen better by 

going to homedepot.com and putting either of these two identifiers in 

the search box:



Model # PQC-101      Store SKU # 688053    Since the cap is made to 

slide over PVC pipe, picture a shorter piece of pipe inside and the 

remaining depth slid over the brake pedals, then tightened in place with 

the clamp.  You'll see they have the clamp positioned about 3/16" from 

the edge but you'd want to slide the clamp to be flush with the edge 

since that's what is going to compress around the perimeter of the pedal 

to hold it in place.  The face of the cap is the surface your heel 

pushes on when braking, and inside is a piece of PVC pipe resting 

solidly on the pedal.

Hope this helps.

Dave Kulp



On 9/8/2012 10:08 PM, 209GS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Can you post pics?



 --------

 Gerry Uebbing

 Firestar II 503 b-box

 (not flying yet)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=382709#382709

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Sounds interesting, but a picture is worth a thousand words.

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:44 am Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

...

Last edited by planecrazzzy on Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:02 am Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

...

Last edited by planecrazzzy on Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

The Matco brakes on my Slingshot have the heel piece far enough aft that the pilot's heel falls naturally in the proper place for easy actuation.

heel brake master cylinder right.JPG

Description:

Slingshot Matco brake master cylinder installation, right side

Filesize:

70.65 KB

Viewed:

9733 Time(s)

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

David , Nice job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you .I am still building my Firefly I built and flew my Firestar KXP for ten years never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and parking does flying a Firefly require brakes landing or turning on the ground ? Will i be lost without them ? thanks Chris

 

  

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



    

From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:37 PM

Subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net (undoctor(at)ptd.net)>



G'day Kolb drivers,



I did a mod to my Matco heel brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to be one of those YES!!! moments.  Reaching for my brakes required a very unnatural thrusting my heels forward all the while trying to steer with the rudder pedal.  The way my knees are bent while sitting in the FF made it a difficult thing to do.  So I went about trying to improve the situation.



First I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the one side concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them to the pedals. Felt a lot better in use, but in a short time one of them came off, so I removed the other one, too.



Flew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent fix, so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that the  diameter of the brake pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I trucked over to Home Depot and browsed through related items to try to find something which would fit over the pedals and not have to be glued on.  And there they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to cap off an inch and a half PVC pipe.



Bought two and brought them home.  Measured the inside depth and cut two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut.  I pushed the pieces of PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed them onto the brake pedals.  Tightening the clamps then compresses the edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to the pedal via the PVC pipe.  A very solid function.



I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and finding  none, climbed in and worked the brakes and rudders.  Not only does it allow my foot to position perfectly, the rubber creates a slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car.



So, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with your heel brakes, maybe you can give this a try.  About five bucks and fifteen minutes is all it takes.



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK



BTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, and although I don't know how it would handle without, it flies so great wi              =====

 [quote][b]

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

My Firestar came equipped like this with an adjustable heel brake.

0000000.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

61.71 KB

Viewed:

9718 Time(s)

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Chris,

Regarding brake requirements for any very light aircraft: 

My Opinion. If you fly only to/from grass and the winds on the ground when you are operating are not very high, you likely will not need brakes. When I was flying my first FS without brakes from a grass strip I never needed them, until one day on a x-country I had to land at a paved airport for fuel. I was fine until I started taxiing downwind toward the runway threshold on a paved taxi way for subsequent take-off. I had to stop the engine and it still kept going until I steered off the pavement onto the grass.



Bottom line is, if you ever operate on pavement, the brakes are close to essential. You don't need much braking but you do need some under these circumstances. Or else you'll have to stick to grass or nearly dead calm wind conditions.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Hi Chris,

     

     I've never flown a FireStar, having gone from an UltraStar to my     FlagFly, but I doubt if there's a whole lot of difference on the     ground.  When landing I don't use the brakes for control, I dance     with the rudder pedals in a crosswind.  About the only time I use my     brakes on landing is if I can land short and get off the runway on     the first taxiway, otherwise I just pretty much let it roll out.      But with a 2K RPM idle, on a hard surface you can roll quite a     distance, albeit slowly after the momentum bleeds off.

     

     Again, on a hard surface, concrete, blacktop or even some     aggregates, it will roll at idle.  When you're on an apron with     other very expensive aircraft parked nearby you want to be ready to     kill the mill if you don't have brakes.  On grass, the surface is     such that the FF will stop at idle, so if that's all you fly from,     you're OK.  Where I start my FF the aggregate is hard and smooth and     it tends to roll, with me standing outside unable to operate the     brakes.  Not good.  So I have chocks with a nylon strap long enough     to go from one chock, up around the handle of my BRS (or anything     else that's handy) and down to the other chock.  After it's running     and I've climbed in, I pull the chocks on board and stash them in     the compartment for use wherever I land next.

     

     As far as running the engine up, with the high thrust line if you     run it up too high with the brakes locked you're looking to     re-position your FF on its nose, which could be quite embarrassing,     if nothing else.  My routine is to check for normal engine response     when I'm taxiing for takeoff, and when I give it full power to climb     out I check for proper RPMs - 6200 with my prop adjustment on my     447.  Much less and I'd chop the power and find out what gives.

     

     Different subject; I read a post recently of someone (I forget who)     who just installed an electric fuel pump.  When I bought the     FlagFly, Don G., the man who built it, recommended that I have the     electric fuel pump switched on for takeoff as insurance against     vacuum pump failure, but to switch it off at altitude and allow the     vacuum pump do the job.  Then if the vacuum pump fails you know it     and can switch on the electric, plus if you have a nasty return to     earth, the electric pump won't be pumping fuel on whatever is near     it.  Make up your own mind, of course, but that makes sense to me,     and sense is the most critical element of flying, IMHO.

     

     One final note; Russ, you gave me a good chuckle with your multiple     ground loops at the airshow story.  Don't we all fear being in such     a position at some time?  Of course, if the airshow announcer was     cool, he'd have narrated your antics as part of the airshow and     gotten you applause from the zillions in the crowd!  And maybe a     paycheck to boot!  One gusty day landing on concrete at Blairstown a     gust initiated what I was sure would be a ground loop but I trounced     the rudder and all I got was a swerve to the edge of the runway.      Even with that I was hoping no one was watching, so I can pretty     much imagine your experience before a captive audience.

     

     Happy gorgeous (at least here in PA) Sunday to you all!

     

     Dave Kulp

     Bethlehem, PA

     FireFly 11DMK

     

     

     On 9/16/2012 8:54 AM, chris davis       wrote:

     

     [quote]                David , Nice             job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you .I             am still                 building my Firefly I built and flew my Firestar KXP for ten years             never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and             parking does flying a Firefly require brakes landing or             turning on                 the ground ?             Will i be lost without them ? thanks Chris           

          

         Chris Davis

           KXP 503 492 hrs

           Glider Pilot

           Disabled from crash building Firefly

         

                                                  From:                 David Kulp                 <undoctor(at)ptd.net> (undoctor(at)ptd.net)

                 To:                 kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) 

                 Sent:                 Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:37 PM

                 Subject:                 FlagFly                 heel brake improvement

               

             

             --> Kolb-List message posted by: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net (undoctor(at)ptd.net)>

             

             G'day Kolb             drivers,

             

             I did a mod to my Matco             heel brakes on my FlagFly             that turned out to be one of those YES!!! moments.  Reaching             for my brakes required a very unnatural thrusting my heels             forward all the while trying to steer with the rudder             pedal.  The way my knees are bent while sitting in the FF             made it a difficult thing to do.  So I went about trying to             improve the situation.

             

             First I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the             one side concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them             to the pedals. Felt a lot better in use, but in a short time             one of them came off, so I removed the other one, too.

             

             Flew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more             permanent fix, so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that             the diameter of the brake pedals is just slightly larger             than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I trucked over to Home Depot and             browsed through related items to try to find something which             would fit over the pedals and not have to be glued on.  And             there they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to cap off             an inch and a half PVC pipe.

             

             Bought two and brought them home.  Measured the inside depth             and cut two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16"             shorter, using my radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly             square cut.  I pushed the pieces of PVC into the end caps,             moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed them onto the             brake pedals.  Tightening the clamps then compresses the             edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal             while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to             the pedal via the PVC pipe.  A very solid function.

             

             I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the             clamps and finding none, climbed in and worked the brakes             and rudders.  Not only does it allow my foot to position             perfectly, the rubber creates a slip-proof surface, like the             brake pedal in your car.

             

             So, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with             your heel brakes, maybe you can give this a try.  About five             bucks and fifteen minutes is all it takes.

             

             Dave Kulp

             Bethlehem, PA

             FireFly 11DMK

             

             BTW, Don G. put VGs             on the underside of the horiz             stab on my FlagFly,             and although I don't know how it would handle without, it             flies so great wi                          =====

             

             

             

             

             

           

         

       

        	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Dennis,



I notice that your brakes are mechanical, but mine are hyd, so the pedal 

is a plunger that goes directly into the master cylinder.  So I have to 

extend the plungers.



Dave



Do Not Archive

On 9/16/2012 10:29 AM, Dennis Thate wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My Firestar came equipped like this with an adjustable heel brake.



 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383222#383222





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/0000000_201.jpg

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

David thanks for the reply it sounds like its just like the firestar . My home field is asphalt but there is a grass strip alongside which I always used but the taxi strips are asphalt also and in the summer\ there are a lot of expensive aircraft to avoid 

 

    The reason I asked is I am trying to stay a legal ultralight and i am afraid that the adaptive equipment and the brakes \combined would put me over.thank again Chris

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



    

From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:21 AM

Subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

  Hi Chris,



I've never flown a FireStar, having gone from an UltraStar to my FlagFly, but I doubt if there's a whole lot of difference on the ground.  When landing I don't use the brakes for control, I dance with the rudder pedals in a crosswind.  About the only time I use my brakes on landing is if I can land short and get off the runway on the first taxiway, otherwise I just pretty much let it roll out.  But with a 2K RPM idle, on a hard surface you can roll quite a distance, albeit slowly after the momentum bleeds off.



Again, on a hard surface, concrete, blacktop or even some aggregates, it will roll at idle.  When you're on an apron with other very expensive aircraft parked nearby you want to be ready to kill the mill if you don't have brakes.  On grass, the surface is such that the FF will stop at idle, so if that's all you fly from, you're OK.  Where I start my FF the aggregate is hard and smooth and  it tends to roll, with me standing outside unable to operate the brakes.  Not good.  So I have chocks with a nylon strap long enough to go from one chock, up around the handle of my BRS (or anything else that's handy) and down to the other chock.  After it's running and I've climbed in, I pull the chocks on board and stash them in the compartment for use wherever I land next.



As far as running the engine up, with the high thrust line if you run it up too high with the brakes locked you're looking to re-position your FF on its nose, which could be quite embarrassing, if nothing else.  My routine is to check for normal engine response when I'm taxiing for takeoff, and when I give it full power to climb out I check for proper RPMs - 6200 with my prop adjustment on my 447.  Much less and I'd chop the power and find out what gives.



Different subject; I read a post recently of someone (I forget who) who just installed an  electric fuel pump.  When I bought the FlagFly, Don G., the man who built it, recommended that I have the electric fuel pump switched on for takeoff as insurance against vacuum pump failure, but to switch it off at altitude and allow the vacuum pump do the job.  Then if the vacuum pump fails you know it and can switch on the electric, plus if you have a nasty return to earth, the electric pump won't be pumping fuel on whatever is near it.  Make up your own mind, of course, but that makes sense to me, and sense is the most critical element of flying, IMHO.



One final note; Russ, you gave me a good chuckle with your multiple ground loops at the airshow story.  Don't we all fear being in such a position at some time?  Of course, if the airshow announcer was cool, he'd have narrated your antics as part of the airshow and gotten you applause from the zillions in the crowd!  And maybe a paycheck to boot!  One gusty day  landing on concrete at Blairstown a gust initiated what I was sure would be a ground loop but I trounced the rudder and all I got was a swerve to the edge of the runway.  Even with that I was hoping no one was watching, so I can pretty much imagine your experience before a captive audience.



Happy gorgeous (at least here in PA) Sunday to you all!



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK

 On 9/16/2012 8:54 AM, chris davis wrote:



 [quote]  David , Nice job on your parking brakes, but i have a question for you .I am still building my Firefly I built and flew my Firestar KXP for ten years never had brakes .Other than engine run-ups and parking does flying a Firefly require brakes landing or turning on the ground ? Will i be lost without them ? thanks Chris

  

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



   From: David Kulp mailto:undoctor(at)ptd.net (undoctor(at)ptd.net)

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) 

Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:37 PM

Subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

--> Kolb-List message posted by: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net (undoctor(at)ptd.net)>



G'day Kolb drivers,



I did a mod to my Matco heel brakes on my FlagFly that turned out to be one of those YES!!! moments.  Reaching for my brakes required a very unnatural thrusting my heels forward all the while trying to steer with the rudder pedal.  The way my knees are bent while sitting in the FF made it a difficult thing to do.  So I went about trying to improve the situation.



First I cut two 3/4" lengths from a large dowel, shaped the one side concave to match the brake pedals, and epoxied them to the pedals. Felt a lot better in use, but in a short time one of them came off, so I removed the other one,  too.



Flew that way for a while, but still wanted to do a more permanent fix, so I hunted through my "stuff" and found that the diameter of the brake pedals is just slightly larger than the OD of 1 1/2" PVC. I trucked over to Home Depot and browsed through related items to try to find something which would fit over the pedals and not have to be glued on.  And there they were; rubber end caps with hose clamps to cap off an inch and a half PVC pipe.



Bought two and brought them home.  Measured the inside depth and cut two pieces of inch and a half PVC pipe about 3/16" shorter, using my radial arm saw in order to get a perfectly square cut.  I pushed the pieces of PVC into the end caps, moved the clamp flush to the edge, and pushed them onto the brake pedals.  Tightening the clamps then compresses the edge of the rubber cap nicely around the edge of the pedal while the downward force is transmitted from your heel to the  pedal via the PVC pipe.  A very solid function.



I checked for any conflicts from the screw mechanism on the clamps and finding none, climbed in and worked the brakes and rudders.  Not only does it allow my foot to position perfectly, the rubber creates a slip-proof surface, like the brake pedal in your car.



So, if anyone else has the same annoying foot position with your heel brakes, maybe you can give this a try.  About five bucks and fifteen minutes is all it takes.



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK



BTW, Don G. put VGs on the underside of the horiz stab on my FlagFly, and although I don't know how it would handle without, it flies so great wi              =====

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	




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[b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: FlagFly heel brake improvement

Thom, you had about the same info as David . I guess its about the same as a Firestar , thats whast I thoughty but I wasnt sure how much difference that short wing would make landing and such I guess I will have to wait and see how much not having full use of my legs increases the need for brakes ,I think it might maybe just a brake lever (or 2) on the stick would do thank you Chris 

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



    

From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:56 AM

Subject: Re: FlagFly heel brake improvement

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



Chris,

Regarding brake requirements for any very light aircraft: 

My Opinion. If you fly only  to/from grass and the winds on the ground when you are operating are not very high, you likely will not need brakes. When I was flying my first FS without brakes from a grass strip I never needed them, until one day on a x-country I had to land at a paved airport for fuel. I was fine until I started taxiing downwind toward the runway threshold on a paved taxi way for subsequent take-off. I had to stop the engine and it still kept going until I steered off the pavement onto the grass.



Bottom line is, if you ever operate on pavement, the brakes are close to essential. You don't need much braking but you do need some under these circumstances. Or else you'll have to stick to grass or nearly dead calm wind conditions.



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)



Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A #1574



Diamond Katana DA20-A1

Rotax 912 F3



Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long. 

-  Anonymous





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383223#383223



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