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more air leaks

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bizbug182

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: more air leaks

on our 52 shut down the other day and heard a hissing sound coming from one of the relief tubes under the middle of the fuse.Put the front flap leaver into the middle position and it stopped.

There is obviously a leak in the selector leaver I would imagine that it has o rings or something else inside to seal. Anybody pulled one of these apart or had any experience with these?



regards steve

VH-MKT

Darwin 

Australia

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: more air leaks

Don't bother taking it apart.  There are no o-rings or internal seals.  

Just remove and replace it. The problem is probably caused by years of 

corrosion and rust building up on the two mating surfaces and the 

pressure spring.  A CJ6 front gear selector or two flap selectors is 

identical to the Yak 52 front gear selector and two flap selectors.



Here in the US, we buy the CJ6 selector from Doug Sapp.  You also may be 

able to purchase them in AU.



Be VERY careful removing the fittings as you can easily gall the 

threads.  The best way to remove the fittings is to heat them with a 

propane torch and then twist them them out very carefully.  The new 

units do not come with fittings.



Hope this helps.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 9/19/2012 8:40 PM, bizbug182 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 on our 52 shut down the other day and heard a hissing sound coming from one of the relief tubes under the middle of the fuse.Put the front flap leaver into the middle position and it stopped.

 There is obviously a leak in the selector leaver I would imagine that it has o rings or something else inside to seal. Anybody pulled one of these apart or had any experience with these?



 regards steve

 VH-MKT

 Darwin

 Australia





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383572#383572

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jill(at)m-14p.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:59 am Post subject: more air leaks

Steve and Group,



If your leak is in the rear cockpit floor area, then you may have a flap

actuator leak.  We rebuild the flap actuators and also sell seal kits and

seal rings for them.  I have found that people focus on all of the landing

gear components, but neglect the flap actuator until there is a problem with

it.  The pitfall of not overhauling the flap actuator every 5 -7 years is

that the internal parts rust away and they are not available.  Like I said,

we manufacture the seal rings and seal kits and are in process of

manufacturing the flap actuator shaft and the cage/piston assembly.



We also rebuild and sell the flap/landing gear valves, plus seals.



Cheers,



Jill 

M-14P, Inc.

www.m-14p.com

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:09 am Post subject: more air leaks

Excellent point (as always) Jill.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 9/20/2012 7:57 AM, Jill Gernetzke wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Steve and Group,



 If your leak is in the rear cockpit floor area, then you may have a flap

 actuator leak.  We rebuild the flap actuators and also sell seal kits and

 seal rings for them.  I have found that people focus on all of the landing

 gear components, but neglect the flap actuator until there is a problem with

 it.  The pitfall of not overhauling the flap actuator every 5 -7 years is

 that the internal parts rust away and they are not available.  Like I said,

 we manufacture the seal rings and seal kits and are in process of

 manufacturing the flap actuator shaft and the cage/piston assembly.



 We also rebuild and sell the flap/landing gear valves, plus seals.



 Cheers,



 Jill

 M-14P, Inc.

 www.m-14p.com

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:09 am Post subject: more air leaks

If I would have read more carefully and COMPREHENDED what you wrote, I 

would have said the flap actuator was probably leaking as Jill points 

out.  In fact, I would take Jill's advice first and remove the flap 

actuator and overhaul it. As Jill says, they have the overhaul kits in 

stock for the flap actuator and the shuttle valves.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 9/20/2012 8:06 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



 Excellent point (as always) Jill.

 Dennis



 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-6263

 334-546-8182 (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1



 On 9/20/2012 7:57 AM, Jill Gernetzke wrote:

> 

> Steve and Group,

>

> If your leak is in the rear cockpit floor area, then you may have a flap

> actuator leak.  We rebuild the flap actuators and also sell seal kits 

> and

> seal rings for them.  I have found that people focus on all of the 

> landing

> gear components, but neglect the flap actuator until there is a 

> problem with

> it.  The pitfall of not overhauling the flap actuator every 5 -7 

> years is

> that the internal parts rust away and they are not available. Like I 

> said,

> we manufacture the seal rings and seal kits and are in process of

> manufacturing the flap actuator shaft and the cage/piston assembly.

>

> We also rebuild and sell the flap/landing gear valves, plus seals.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Jill

> M-14P, Inc.

> www.m-14p.com

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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: more air leaks

Jill;



Do you have the precision grinding and lapping facilities to overhaul the 

gear and flap control valves?

There are only two "O" rings in each valve and they are virtually never the 

source of the leakage.  Leakage is caused by corrosion and/or scoring of the 

fixed, steel, surface and the bronze rotor.

The only possible repair is by an EXTREMELY precise re-grind of the stator 

and perfect machine lapping the the rotor.



I just finished replacing 3 out of 4 control valves on one CJ (both gear 

valves and the fwd. flap valve).



Cheers;

Walt



--

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Rob Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: Berkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: more air leaks

Steve,



Don't forget that in a -52 there are also two shuttle valves to differentiate between the front and rear cockpit flap selectors feeding air to the flap actuator.



To help narrow down what may be at fault you could try the following (in exact order);



1/ Put both cockpit flap selectors in neutral and then turn Main air on



2/ Put Front flap selector to Up position

- if air venting from Front selector then Up shuttle valve OK, go to 3/

- if air venting from Rear selector then Up shuttle valve is compromised

- if air is leaking, but not from either selector, then suspect the feed pipe from the Front selector to the Up shuttle valve. Look for pinhole at a low point in pipe run



3/ Put Front flap selector to Neutral & Rear flap selector to Up 

- if air venting from Front selector then Actuator is compromised

Note : some chance that disturbing Up shuttle may also cause it to leak to Front selector. So repeat ALL of above from beginning several times to give it a chance to re-seat before condemning Actuator

- if no air venting then Front selector is compromised (exercising several times might help relieve minor corrosion)

 

Hope this helps.



Rob R

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bizbug182

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: more air leaks

thanks for the replies everyone the leaking air is definitely from one of the vent tubes on the underside of the fuse in the middle of the wings.

We had the flap actuator out not that long ago and repaired

Will have a go at the suggestions and see how we go



regards steve

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jill(at)m-14p.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:35 am Post subject: more air leaks

Walt,



You are right about the o-rings.  The are 3 in the Russian 3-port valve

(Shaft, piston and body) and 1 (Body) in the 5-port.  The CJ 3-port has 2

and none in the 5-port.



I have them precision polished (not in-house).  Some customers tell me that

they have had luck lapping the valve bodies to one another.  When I receive

a valve for overhaul, it is usually beyond that state.



Steve, 



A long shot on the flap actuator - if it has been leaking since you

reinstalled - the seal in the end cap may have been put in backwards.  Easy

to do if you didn't have photos of the disassembly or rebuild them

frequently.  We test all of our pneumatic component to 750 psi before they

go out the door and use an ultrasonic leak detector during the process.

Removing and reinstalling that actuator is not a fun job.  : (



Jill

M-14P, Inc.

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