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egp8111

Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 49

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: Mod 73

I'm returning my early monowheel classic to flying status after a number of years being inactive. Getting caught up on the mods. I'm in the process of doing mod 73 the tailplane retention mod. Just a question for my  clarification.  Are both the top and bottom pip pin holes on the  torque tube elongated or just the top ?  I assume both top and bottom holes receive the same treatment but the directions on the factory website leave me with just a bit of doubt.  I tried contacting Europa directly and got a nice email from someone saying she didn't know but was passing my question on to the technical staff but thats the last I have heard from them.  Can someone clear this up for me please.



Thanks,



Skip Pate, Europa sr. # A009 monwheel classic 178 hr. TT first flown 1996

keithhickling(at)clear.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: Mod 73

I'm pretty sure you are correct, both top and bottom holes need to be 

elongated, otherwise it would not achieve the purpose which is to prevent 

torque loads from the torque tube being transmitted through the TP6 sleeve 

with the possible result of disbonding.  That is what I did.



Regards,

Keith Hickling,

New Zealand.

--------------------------------------------------

From: "egp8111" <egp8111(at)aol.com>

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 11:37 AM

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Mod 73



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm returning my early monowheel classic to flying status after a number 

 of years being inactive. Getting caught up on the mods. I'm in the process 

 of doing mod 73 the tailplane retention mod. Just a question for my 

 clarification.  Are both the top and bottom pip pin holes on the  torque 

 tube elongated or just the top ?  I assume both top and bottom holes 

 receive the same treatment but the directions on the factory website leave 

 me with just a bit of doubt.  I tried contacting Europa directly and got a 

 nice email from someone saying she didn't know but was passing my question 

 on to the technical staff but thats the last I have heard from them.  Can 

 someone clear this up for me please.



 Thanks,



 Skip Pate, Europa sr. # A009 monwheel classic 178 hr. TT first flown 1996

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 390
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Mod 73

My Europa Classic mono-wheel has been flying for 15 years since I completed building it and all mandatory mods are up-to-date.



The answer to your question is "Yes, no doubt at all, lengthen the holes circumferentially in both the top and bottom of the torque tube".



A tip I can offer is to use two little pieces of tape (masking tape perhaps) to stick on to the torque tube a couple of millimetres beyond the edge of the original round pip-pin hole. The edges of the tape pieces will give you a reference limit up to which to file the elongations.



Having done the filing and before removing the bits of tape, check with the pip-pin inserted that it will move all the way along the elongated hole up to touch the edges of the tape pieces. If it doesn't, the radius of the elongations is too small and a little more filing will be needed.



The mod is an excellent conception in that a ridge/step/joggle is created to obstruct the edge of the bush should it become dis-bonded, so that the tailplane cannot slide span-wise off it. I've seen this put to the test recently and I'm convinced that provided the pin is properly inserted, then that potential catastrophe can't happen.



Even so and before this mod was issued, I had bonded a little piece of plywood into the bottom of each pip-pin recess on the inboard sides, butting against the pip-pin heads so that it would be impossible for the tailplane to migrate span-wise in the event of a bush dis-bonding.



Talk about belts and braces !

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: Mod 73

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Regarding Mod 73 and SB15

 Sorry I have been out of touch...More on that some other day.

 Mod 73 is elongated on the top and bottom.  However in reality the  bottom hole is not as critical and many of you still have a round 1/4 to  retain the pip pin ball retainers and have had no problem, but it should be  elongated just a bit top and bottom.

  

 The reason the lower hole not being elongated doesn't cause an  issue is that the loose tailplane is going to move but the pin itself with  only one hole elongated will still allow sufficient small movement of the  tailplane and its TP6 bushing glued in to move so as not to crack the  bearing free.  Unless your tailplanes flop about independently a lot.   Only the underside of the TP5 with its mandated extra glass retains the pin in  this modification.  However, the pip pin is normally not long enough  for the added glass work, (Note the epoxy and glass should not be  relieved in the vicinity of the hole to allow the retaining balls to catch and  retain the existing pin, you must buy a longer pin (2 inch works)).  Note  SB 15 must be followed to remove all play in the tailplane pitch tube system  along with this mod.

  

 That said, let me say this.  No movement of the tail plane should be  noticed at the trailing edge.  Nor should the stab move independently  of the mass balance arm.  The inspection documentation only states:    

 * Tab drive pin and bracket for corrosion, cracking.

* Main tailplane  bushes for security and cleanliness.

* Tailplane drive bushes in inboard rib  for wear and security.

  

 A small amount of bushing wear and pin fit will allow the tailplane to  move no more than 1/64 inch at the rear and in a properly built  tailplane, the stabs when gripped at the trailing edge will not move  independently from one another at all.  If they do, something is worn or  built incorrectly.  Any tailplane movement will, due to the fact the  physical tail plane is not balanced, flutter unless it is secured soundly  through the TP13 bushes to the drive pins and the drive mechanism is  soundly attached to the TP4 tube and mass balance arm via the TP14s.  Hence  Mod 73 is a Band-Aid, to the real problem of sloppy TP14 pins and TP13  bushes.

  

 The real fix is to do the work right.  TP14 pin installation to a  tight fit is essential.  The PFA mod 10672 bonding in the bushes was a  terrific idea to prevent many problems, from TP5 de-bonding, to foam protection  from lubrication and a more sound TP5 adhesion to the foam stab core and ply  rib.  Many of you have installed a threaded cap for an additional safety  lock for the tailplane pip pin.  Extra glass was added in doing this and  frankly cured part of the problem of the TP5 retention.  Accidents tend to  cause Band-Aid solutions.  I know I have beat a dead horse on TP14 pin  installation techniques in the past.  However, the SB15 Loctite solution is  a quick and easy fix to slightly loose pins and makes the TP12 and TP9   retention problems go away.  Also some of you developed clever clamping  fixtures to secure the drives to the tubes which was another mechanical solution  that worked.  (By the way, don't get the Loctite 603 into the pitch  bearings, that stuff really works.)  The Band-Aid solution to prevent one  part of the problem for he who does not understand that any movement of the  stab due to excessive play or wear in any part of the stabilator control system  is reason to ground the aircraft until corrective action is made.

  

 So to cause trouble:

 The TP14 C and D pins should not allow the TP12 or TP9 to move on the TP4  Tube at all.  That said, most builders note that a small ticking sound but  no perceptible movement of the TP12 or 9 is noticed on annual inspections as the  plane ages with no modification.  Once the movement begins though, it gets  worse.  Any perceptible movement indicates SB 15 is needed and cures the  problem...  

  

 I know that in the past the factory suggested up to 1/2 inch  movement of a tail plane was acceptable, but that means you have a known  flutter problem and are flying with a known malfunction in a flight control  system.  In the 80 HP aircraft flying at or near 100 Kts it is not a  problem, but in a dive to VNE, flutter is a very real concern.  I have had  to rebuild 4 stabilators due to this type wear.  The pilots never realized  that they had movement nor did they know how to check.  Flutter clearly  occurred as the wear on the TP13s was evident as well as flat spots in the TP14  pins, however the TP5 was undamaged.  The preflight check for proper  fit and security is quite simple and must be done on each preflight.   Grasp the stabilator at the trailing edge and pull up lightly to put the mass  balance weight on the stop.  With the mass balance arm against the stop  pull up and check if the tailplane moves beyond the clunk of the mass balance  stop (Checks TP9 and 12 Pins).  No movement should occur on either the up  or down stop.  At the leading edge of the stab grab the leading edge of  both stabilators and attempt to move them up and down independently or if  you have longer arms from the trailing edge, move the stabs by gripping the  trailing edge outboard of the tabs and moving them one up and one down and vice  versa to check for independent movement of the stabs between one another.  (Checks TP12s)

  

 Keep it tight and right

 Best Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Tech Support

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hello Bud.

Just read your posting, and as a pilot and not a builder this part of the aeroplane has given me concern since i purchased the aircraft.

I notice you have used Sloppy and Band Aid Fix and that,s just what it looks like to me.

The problem in my case not being a builder, is lack of skills and materials to fix the problem,and not knowing who to to take the aircraft too, to have it repaired.    

In my opinion, which seem,s to get me into trouble, I think the manufacturer should assign designated repair centres with the skills to carry out a major modification as this.  

I can manage without a prop, i can manage without an engine, but i can not manage without Stabalator control. 

This part of the aircraft is vital for survival and as i see it the most vital part of the aircraft, more chance here than the spare.

Why was,nt this complete component made welded and machine finished unit,

with the pins that drive the stabalator mirrored into a pre manufactured plate that's moulded into each stabalator, Which would give no play.

Before i fly again i will do all you external checks.

But im not sure how much pressure to apply, it is difficult to know as people have different ideas of force, but say the amount the same as to lift 1/2 a bucket of water.

Regards 

Alan

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Alan

if there is any "play" or "backlash" it won't need much force at all. Just enough to overcome the friction of the tube in the socket, which should be quite low.

The tube has to slide off easily to remove the tailplane. As soon as the slack is taken up you won't be able to move any further without breaking something.

You're looking for a  rattle.

Try it and you will get the idea I'm sure

Graham

        From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012, 22:48

 Subject:  Re: Mod 73

  

 

-But im not sure how much pressure to apply, it is difficult to know as people have different ideas of force, but say the amount the same as to lift 1/2 a bucket of water.

Regards 

Alan



 

 

  

 [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hello Graham.

I went up to Headcorn today and carried out the checks as Bud listed.

I got behind the rudder tilted it to one side and more or less did the splits with my legs and could just reach the Stab beyond the trim.

You really do need long arm,s, i moved the Stab to each stop and applied the one up and one down twisting pressure, and to my relief i found no movement.

Then at the ends of the Stab i applied horizontal fore and aft movement, very small about 1/64" hardly detectable.

Pull the Stab towards and way from me again no movement,

The pipe pins that hold the Stab on the torque tube are located under an alloy cover plate , Maybe a perspex cover would be better so you can see them.? (as i remember the pins are long with the little retaining balls well below the tube., and would hit against the cover plate before coming out.)

I found slight play on the Stab Trim pin, i checked 7 Europa,s at Popham and found all the same amount of play, only one had no play.

I then went to the joy stick here i found a clunk click ie some playA.

I measured this at the top of the joystick and would say you could wobble it fore and aft, with a total play of between 4 to 5 mm before stab moved.

How much if any should i have,?



Alan

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Alan

that sounds OK to me. 

Try and visualize what you are testing. These various backlash conditions are the result of  accumulation of the backlash in a series of connections, 

there are the pins that hold the tailplanes on (pip pins) then the ones that fix the drive plates to the torque tube. Next the ones that lock the assembly 

that connects the push rod to the torque tube. After that the various rod end fittings between there and the stick. You need to monitor the wear and tear of all the rod end fittings too.

Sounds complicated but you must learn to understand your airplane;  it will talk to you but usually it doesn't speak loudly so you have to listen carefully.

Most things change gradually and that's what your are trying to monitor. 

All aircraft are like this but home/amateur built ones are more susceptible than store bought ones because they are "experimental" and also built down to a price!

That's the reason the ones that survive the test of time usually perform a lot better than production designs which get no improvement after 

they enter the  market, their design and development is frozen at that point because of the excessive burocratic load of incorporating

even the simplest improvement.

IMVHO

Graham

Bud, get better soon, we need you, you're much better at this than I am  !{{ 

        From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 22:21

 Subject: Re: Mod 73

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)>



Hello Graham.

I went up to Headcorn today and carried out the checks as Bud  listed.

I got behind the rudder tilted it to one side and more or less did the splits with my legs and could just reach the Stab beyond the trim.

You really do need long arm,s, i moved the Stab to each stop and applied the one up and one down twisting pressure, and to my relief i found no movement.

Then at the ends of the Stab i applied horizontal fore and aft movement, very small about 1/64" hardly detectable.

Pull the Stab towards and way from me again no movement,

The pipe pins that hold the Stab on the torque tube are located under an alloy cover plate , Maybe a perspex cover would be better so you can see them.? (as i remember the pins are long with the little retaining balls well below the tube., and would hit against the cover plate before coming out.)

I found slight play on the Stab Trim pin, i checked 7 Europa,s at Popham and found all the same amount of play, only one had no play.

I then went to the joy stick here i found  a clunk click ie some playA.

I measured this at the top of the joystick and would say you could wobble it fore and aft, with a total play of between 4 to 5 mm before stab moved.

How much if any should i have,?



Alan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385012#385012

http://forums.matronics                    &nbsptronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================



 

 

   

 [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Graham and All.

Bud i did not know you have been unwell. Hope you recover soon and see you back on the Forum.

Graham I was on my own yesterday when i carried out buds checks,

I also tried moving the tail planes deferentially from the in front again no movement.

You can not do this test by yourself and get a proper result.

Today i rechecked the tail plan with another person holding one of the Stabalator planes down against the stops, while i twisted the other, 

I found it moved about 3/8 to 1/2", The Night Mare Begins.

Mod 73 is signed in the log at 18/08/2007 at 165 Hours today it has done 358 hours.

The Band Aid Fix , well Bud you are spot on, and i reckon there will be a lot more Europas the same.

I think of the plane as know grounded or just a positioning flight.

Can anybody help , (Aircraft is in the UK)

What should i do now,?

Is there somebody i can contact to come and fix it,?

Is there a place i could take the aircraft to,  for repair.?

Or do i poor in more Loctite  which seems a crude way to fix such a vital component.



Alan

brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Alan,



As discussed previously, get a Europa experienced LAA inspector to take a

look at it.  It is important not to confuse flexing with play. If there is

play you will feel/hear a distinct "clunk". 



Regards



Brian Davies 



--

Trevpond(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Alan,

  

 Email Nev Eyre, he has a super workshop and will fix it correctly.

  

 regards

  

  

 Trev

 G-LINN

  

  In a message dated 10/10/2012 20:26:29 GMT Daylight Time,  alancarteresq(at)onetel.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter"    <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>



Hi Graham and All.

Bud i did not    know you have been unwell. Hope you recover soon and see you back on the    Forum.

Graham I was on my own yesterday when i carried out buds    checks,

I also tried moving the tail planes deferentially from the in front    again no movement.

You can not do this test by yourself and get a proper    result.

Today i rechecked the tail plan with another person holding one of    the Stabalator planes down against the stops, while i twisted the other, 

I    found it moved about 3/8 to 1/2", The Night Mare Begins.

Mod 73 is signed    in the log at 18/08/2007 at 165 Hours today it has done 358 hours.

The Band    Aid Fix , well Bud you are spot on, and i reckon there will be a lot more    Europas the same.

I think of the plane as know grounded or just a    positioning flight.

Can anybody help , (Aircraft is in the UK)

What    should i do now,?

Is there somebody i can contact to come and fix    it,?

Is there a place i could take the aircraft to,  for    repair.?

Or do i poor in more Loctite  which seems a crude way to fix    such a vital component.



Alan





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385065#385065

	


 [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Brian.

To me it feels like play, i will check again, and slide the Stablators off and check inserts making sure they are bonded.

I am just a pilot but i could have done a better job in designing this linkage.

As this has the possibility of grounding the aircraft for some considerable time, due to the fact that clamps are individually made to size,    Why has,t something not been done about it.??

Why can,t you get a complete unit with clamps already made, so the job could be done in one go, say a day, not grounded for 2 months.



Alan

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Alan

I was thinking about what I told you and I'm sorry, I missed something out. To check for play you should remove the pip pins, the play you are looking for is in the pins that hold the drive plates to the torque tube.

Graham

        From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 20:24

 Subject: Re: Mod 73

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)>

Hi Graham and All.

Bud i did not know you have been unwell. Hope you recover soon and see you back on the Forum.

Graham I was on my own yesterday when i carried out buds checks,

I also tried moving the tail planes deferentially from the in front again no movement.

You can not do this test by yourself and get a proper result.

Today i rechecked the tail plan with another person holding one of the  Stabalator planes down against the stops, while i twisted the other, 

I found it moved about 3/8 to 1/2", The Night Mare Begins.

Mod 73 is signed in the log at 18/08/2007 at 165 Hours today it has done 358 hours.

The Band Aid Fix , well Bud you are spot on, and i reckon there will be a lot more Europas the same.

I think of the plane as know grounded or just a positioning flight.

Can anybody help , (Aircraft is in the UK)

What should i do now,?

Is there somebody i can contact to come and fix it,?

Is there a place i could take the aircraft to,  for repair.?

Or do i poor in more Loctite  which seems a crude way to fix such a vital component.

Alan

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385065#385========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eurp;  -->

neveyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi Alan,

   It's a pity you were not available when we were working on the design and manufacturing process all those years ago, we could have done with an expert to help. Sorting out all of the thousands of items with your help would have been welcome.

   Everything could have been made bullet proof, trouble is the Europa would have weighed perhaps  1200 + pounds, with little payload ?

   A number of options are available to you.

   1]. Submit your new [improved] design to L.A.A. you might get it through in a year or two ?

   2]. Call Karen at Europa, have your Credit Card ready, and order one of the new [ improved] torque tube assemblies. With hindsight, and less pressure 18 years on, Europa have done a re design on this. Back then, we didn't take into account that builders would take it apart / reasemble / take apart / reasemble it the wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes .......... or they would smack the mass balance weights onto the stop..... If you take this option, you might have to ream out the bores of the TP5 /TP6 sleeves  in your tailplanes to allow the torque tube to slide on easily, as they were matched to each individual torque tube. Easy but time consuming, with a broom handle and emery cloth.

   Almost certainly you will need to sweat out the TP13 bushes [ the four 1/4'' bore drive bushes in the inboard rib] and re pot them to match the drive pins, simple job with a heat gun and 1/4'' bolt, and some epoxy. This heavy duty item is, funnily enough, heavier.

   3]. Remove the entire torque tube assembly, mark everything as to their orientation [ horn , drive plates and nylon spacers relative to the torque tube] and establish the scale of the wear [in the holes, not the pins]. If the pins are the original 1/4'', and the holes are not too worn [ they might be now if you have been swinging on the tail to check wear] the next size up was 5/16''. Not sure if these are available from Europa, as they go directly to 10mm now, bigger is better, but doesn't give you another shot at it if you mess up on reassembly. The new holes in the  tube / fiting need to be an interference fit, as in if you can push the pin in by hand, the jobs buggered before you fit them. I have just done this job last week to a monowheel with 800+ hours on it. very slight play but as it was in my workshop it made sense to sort it for another 800 hours life.

   Get a machine shop to ream the holes out to 0.007'' smaller than the pins ACTUALLY  MEASURE, and make sure you don't lose the relative positions of the fittings when this is being done. If there is significant play between the drive plates, ensure they are clocked to be in allignment with each other during the drilling process. DON'T trial fit the pins ! It is a once ony job ! On reinstallation, to drive the pins in you will need a 4lb copper hammer.With the nip of the tube on the pin, it will need a firm wallop to drive the pins in, should be a '' doink, doink, doink, donk '' Mark with a felt pen on the head of the pins the axis of the split pin hole so you can have them vertical when you insert them, it helps to taper the lead end of the pin back to the split pin hole to assist insertion, and lube the pin with thin oil. 

   Depending on whether the original builder put the inspection / view panels in the place described in the Build Manual, or chose to delete / move them, this is either a 3 hour each way job + the machining work, or a couple of days marathon swearing session.

   This work will need inspecting, and entering in the aircrafts Log Book. 

   Regards,

   Nev.

    

    

    

    --

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Neville 

Thank you for your detail instruction on the torque tube fix, it sound like a very difficult job to undertake and most probably does need an engineer to fix it and i am sure your can do the job well.

I have zero engineering background, and would rather just fly aircraft which is what i have been doing for the past 50 years,

However I think it was a poor design and Loctite a poor solution to fix it. 

I have seen some ingenious clamps LAA approved which i think will solve the problem, and really make the problem go away for good.

It may be expensive to have done, but i personally see this as a good engineering solution.

I  know of a number a failed Loctite cases and the way above is the way i intend to go.

Regards

Alan

trevpond(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: Mod 73

Perfect answer Nev.

Best regards

Trev



Sent from my iPhone 



On 12 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com (neveyre(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote] Hi Alan,

   It's a pity you were not available when we were working on the design and manufacturing process all those years ago, we could have done with an expert to help. Sorting out all of the thousands of items with your help would have been welcome.

   Everything could have been made bullet proof, trouble is the Europa would have weighed perhaps  1200 + pounds, with little payload ?

   A number of options are available to you.

   1]. Submit your new [improved] design to L.A.A. you might get it through in a year or two ?

   2]. Call Karen at Europa, have your Credit Card ready, and order one of the new [ improved] torque tube assemblies. With hindsight, and less pressure 18 years on, Europa have done a re design on this. Back then, we didn't take into account that builders would take it apart / reasemble / take apart / reasemble it the wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes .......... or they would smack the mass balance weights onto the stop..... If you take this option, you might have to ream out the bores of the TP5 /TP6 sleeves  in your tailplanes to allow the torque tube to slide on easily, as they were matched to each individual torque tube. Easy but time consuming, with a broom handle and emery cloth.

   Almost certainly you will need to sweat out the TP13 bushes [ the four 1/4'' bore drive bushes in the inboard rib] and re pot them to match the drive pins, simple job with a heat gun and 1/4'' bolt, and some epoxy. This heavy duty item is, funnily enough, heavier.

   3]. Remove the entire torque tube assembly, mark everything as to their orientation [ horn , drive plates and nylon spacers relative to the torque tube] and establish the scale of the wear [in the holes, not the pins]. If the pins are the original 1/4'', and the holes are not too worn [ they might be now if you have been swinging on the tail to check wear] the next size up was 5/16''. Not sure if these are available from Europa, as they go directly to 10mm now, bigger is better, but doesn't give you another shot at it if you mess up on reassembly. The new holes in the  tube / fiting need to be an interference fit, as in if you can push the pin in by hand, the jobs buggered before you fit them. I have just done this job last week to a monowheel with 800+ hours on it. very slight play but as it was in my workshop it made sense to sort it for another 800 hours life.

   Get a machine shop to ream the holes out to 0.007'' smaller than the pins ACTUALLY  MEASURE, and make sure you don't lose the relative positions of the fittings when this is being done. If there is significant play between the drive plates, ensure they are clocked to be in allignment with each other during the drilling process. DON'T trial fit the pins ! It is a once ony job ! On reinstallation, to drive the pins in you will need a 4lb copper hammer.With the nip of the tube on the pin, it will need a firm wallop to drive the pins in, should be a '' doink, doink, doink, donk '' Mark with a felt pen on the head of the pins the axis of the split pin hole so you can have them vertical when you insert them, it helps to taper the lead end of the pin back to the split pin hole to assist insertion, and lube the pin with thin oil. 

   Depending on whether the original builder put the inspection / view panels in the place described in the Build Manual, or chose to delete / move them, this is either a 3 hour each way job + the machining work, or a couple of days marathon swearing session.

   This work will need inspecting, and entering in the aircrafts Log Book. 

   Regards,

   Nev.

    

    

    

    --

stranfaer(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: Mod 73

Ditto Nev

 

"Very well put and said"



 

Sent to you from David Joyce (The other one)



      

  From: Trevor Pond <trevpond(at)aol.com>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2012, 9:13

 Subject: Re: Re: Mod 73

  

 

Perfect answer Nev.

Best regards

Trev



Sent from my iPhone 



On 12 Oct 2012, at 21:48, Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com (neveyre(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote] Hi Alan,

   It's a pity you were not available when we were working on the design and manufacturing process all those years ago, we could have done with an expert to help. Sorting out all of the thousands of items with your help would have been welcome.

   Everything could have been made bullet proof, trouble is the Europa would have weighed perhaps  1200 + pounds, with little payload ?

   A number of options are available to you.

   1]. Submit your new [improved] design to L.A.A. you might get it through in a year or two ?

   2]. Call Karen at Europa, have your Credit Card ready, and order one of the new [ improved] torque tube assemblies. With hindsight, and less pressure 18 years on, Europa have done a re design on this. Back then, we didn't take into account that builders would take it apart / reasemble / take apart / reasemble it the wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes .......... or they would smack the mass balance weights onto the stop..... If you take this option, you might have to ream out the bores of the TP5 /TP6 sleeves  in your tailplanes to allow the torque tube to slide on easily, as they were matched to each individual torque tube. Easy but time consuming, with a broom handle and emery cloth.

   Almost certainly you will need to sweat out the TP13 bushes [ the four 1/4'' bore drive bushes in the inboard rib] and re pot them to match the drive pins, simple job with a heat gun and 1/4'' bolt, and some epoxy. This heavy duty item is, funnily enough, heavier.

   3]. Remove the entire torque tube assembly, mark everything as to their orientation [ horn , drive plates and nylon spacers relative to the torque tube] and establish the scale of the wear [in the holes, not the pins]. If the pins are the original 1/4'', and the holes are not too worn [ they might be now if you have been swinging on the tail to check wear] the next size up was 5/16''. Not sure if these are available from Europa, as they go directly to 10mm now, bigger is better, but doesn't give you another shot at it if you mess up on reassembly. The new holes in the  tube / fiting need to be an interference fit, as in if you can push the pin in by hand, the jobs buggered before you fit them. I have just done this job last week to a monowheel with 800+ hours on it. very slight play but as it was in my workshop it made sense to sort it for another 800 hours life.

   Get a machine shop to ream the holes out to 0.007'' smaller than the pins ACTUALLY  MEASURE, and make sure you don't lose the relative positions of the fittings when this is being done. If there is significant play between the drive plates, ensure they are clocked to be in allignment with each other during the drilling process. DON'T trial fit the pins ! It is a once ony job ! On reinstallation, to drive the pins in you will need a 4lb copper hammer.With the nip of the tube on the pin, it will need a firm wallop to drive the pins in, should be a '' doink, doink, doink, donk '' Mark with a felt pen on the head of the pins the axis of the split pin hole so you can have them vertical when you insert them, it helps to taper the lead end of the pin back to the split pin hole to assist insertion, and lube the pin with thin oil. 

   Depending on whether the original builder put the inspection / view panels in the place described in the Build Manual, or chose to delete / move them, this is either a 3 hour each way job + the machining work, or a couple of days marathon swearing session.

   This work will need inspecting, and entering in the aircrafts Log Book. 

   Regards,

   Nev.

    

    

    

    --

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Chaps.

Before a load more , Well Puts , are posted.

I don,t want to offend anyone, I just post what i think might help others,

and get some help back on problems i need help on.

I check my tailplane using 3 people by placing a trestle under the fuselage to make firm, the another pilot holding one Stab the the other a Retired 747 flight engineer who has just completed 15 years work in building he plane, on the other Stab,and me with a pencil with a piece of wood to the floor marking the movement, to get a really accurate measurement.

I had i high degree of professionalism at my disposal,So i don,t think  Swinging came into it, I am use to 50 million hour failure rates. 

So i am going to close on this one, but hope i may put something useful forward on other topics.

Regards 

Alan

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 220

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: Mod 73

<<Perfect  answer Nev..>>

 Not  quite.

 <<..Back then, we didn't take into account  that builders would take it apart / reassemble / take apart / reassemble it the  wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes ..........  >>

  

 I  don't believe the parts manufacturing execution was up to the  mark. 

 In my  own case the pins were taken out from the pre-assembled torque tube assembly and  put back in once. Only. And in the correct holes. Looseness appeared as soon as  the jointing compound that I used between the tubes let go, then got worse.  

 Further, I don't believe the originals were a reamed fit; merely  drilled (albeit with a decently sharp drill) but the edge of the holes had then  been enthusiastically deburred, thereby removing locally a significant  amount of tube wall thickness where the pins bear.

 I  replaced 400 hours ago with oversize pins driven in with a hammer. There has  been no subsequent degradation of fit.

  

 So,  the design was OK, but not the execution of the parts; be that at the Factory or  maybe in some cases compounded by the builder.

  

 Duncan  McF.

 [quote]   

   --

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:05 am Post subject: Mod 73

I fully understand the requirement for an interference pin fit to avoid the hammering out of the holes over time. 

That said, could "taper pins" be used?

cheers,

Pete



On Oct 14, 2012, at 4:37 AM, "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net (ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:



[quote]   Message    <<Perfect  answer Nev..>>

 Not  quite.

 <<..Back then, we didn't take into account  that builders would take it apart / reassemble / take apart / reassemble it the  wrong way round / take apart / reassemble and wear the holes ..........  >>

  

 I  don't believe the parts manufacturing execution was up to the  mark. 

 In my  own case the pins were taken out from the pre-assembled torque tube assembly and  put back in once. Only. And in the correct holes. Looseness appeared as soon as  the jointing compound that I used between the tubes let go, then got worse.  

 Further, I don't believe the originals were a reamed fit; merely  drilled (albeit with a decently sharp drill) but the edge of the holes had then  been enthusiastically deburred, thereby removing locally a significant  amount of tube wall thickness where the pins bear.

 I  replaced 400 hours ago with oversize pins driven in with a hammer. There has  been no subsequent degradation of fit.

  

 So,  the design was OK, but not the execution of the parts; be that at the Factory or  maybe in some cases compounded by the builder.

  

 Duncan  McF.

  	  Quote: 	
		     

   -----Or



	


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