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CJ-6 Engine Trouble

 
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tmckeon79(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

Hello,
 
I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.
 
Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom

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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:28 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!

Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW

Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

I am afraid Richard is right. You may have had a hydraulic lock, which bent a rod, thus that piston skirt has drop below the cylinder bottom, just far enough that its scraper ring has sprung out and is stopping the piston from moving back up the cylinder.  Very bad news I hate to say.

Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!

Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
 
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom
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tigeryak18t



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

Yeahhh
But question is how could that happen?
The guy pulled a good number of blades even if there ain't a good number. But he did like the book say and ..... Bad news. How can we avoid this?

Didier Blouzard+33 6 5184 4802
Le 3 nov. 2012 à 11:31, James Goolsby <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> a écrit :
[quote]I am afraid Richard is right.  You may have had a hydraulic lock, which bent a rod, thus that piston skirt has drop below the cylinder bottom, just far enough that its scraper ring has sprung out and is stopping the piston from moving back up the cylinder.  Very bad news I hate to say.

Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!

Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
 
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom
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pjsales(at)me.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

Sounds like intake tubes were not drained- you can pull it through 100 times and no help- PJ

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2012, at 6:47, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Yeahhh
But question is how could that happen?
The guy pulled a good number of blades even if there ain't a good number. But he did like the book say and ..... Bad news. How can we avoid this?

Didier Blouzard+33 6 5184 4802
Le 3 nov. 2012 à 11:31, James Goolsby <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> a écrit :
Quote:
I am afraid Richard is right. You may have had a hydraulic lock, which bent a rod, thus that piston skirt has drop below the cylinder bottom, just far enough that its scraper ring has sprung out and is stopping the piston from moving back up the cylinder. Very bad news I hate to say.

Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!

Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
 
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom
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www.aeroelectric.com
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n4829t(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

You can pull the plugs from lower cylinders 5 and 6 and drain all the oil, but still have quite a bit more in the intakes.... So, the cylinder appears clear until you start and the oil in the intake dumps into the cylinder causing hydraulic lock and destroying your motor. It's best to drain BOTH the cylinders and the lower intakes... When in doubt, take em out!
Jim P.
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Yeahhh
But question is how could that happen?
The guy pulled a good number of blades even if there ain't a good number. But he did like the book say and ..... Bad news. How can we avoid this?

Didier Blouzard+33 6 5184 4802
Le 3 nov. 2012 à 11:31, James Goolsby <[url=mailto:cjpilot710(at)aol.com]cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)[/url]> a écrit :
Quote:
I am afraid Richard is right. You may have had a hydraulic lock, which bent a rod, thus that piston skirt has drop below the cylinder bottom, just far enough that its scraper ring has sprung out and is stopping the piston from moving back up the cylinder. Very bad news I hate to say.

Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "Richard Goode" <[url=mailto:richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com]richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)[/url]> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!

Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
 
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com


From: [url=mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [[url=mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: [url=mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom
Quote:
www.aeroelectric.com
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rmhou(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

But, if Tom could freely turn his engine 15 or more blades before start, wouldn't that clear most oil in both cylinders and intake pipes? I mean, any oil in intake pipes would be sucked into cylinders then dumped into exhaust pipes, no?
From: "n4829t(at)aol.com" <n4829t(at)aol.com>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: CJ-6 Engine Trouble


You can pull the plugs from lower cylinders 5 and 6 and drain all the oil, but still have quite a bit more in the intakes.... So, the cylinder appears clear until you start and the oil in the intake dumps into the cylinder causing hydraulic lock and destroying your motor. It's best to drain BOTH the cylinders and the lower intakes... When in doubt, take em out!
Jim P.
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 3, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Yeahhh
But question is how could that happen?
The guy pulled a good number of blades even if there ain't a good number. But he did like the book say and ..... Bad news. How can we avoid this?

Didier Blouzard+33 6 5184 4802
Le 3 nov. 2012 à 11:31, James Goolsby < (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> a écrit :
Quote:
I am afraid Richard is right. You may have had a hydraulic lock, which bent a rod, thus that piston skirt has drop below the cylinder bottom, just far enough that its scraper ring has sprung out and is stopping the piston from moving back up the cylinder. Very bad news I hate to say.

Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "Richard Goode" < (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry to say, but your engine has definitely suffered hydraulic lock!
 
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW

Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
[/url][url=http://www.russianaeros.com/]www.russianaeros.com


From: (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [ (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Thomas McKeon
Sent: 03 November 2012 03:36
To: (yak-list(at)matronics.com)yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble

Hello,

I wrote previously about engine trouble I had been having on my CJ-6. I believed it was the Carburetor diaphram. I ended up changing the whole carburetor with a new one. I finished changing the carb and was going to do a run-up on the plane. It had been sitting for about 3 weeks so I turned the prop through about 15-17 times. I turned it a little extra because it had sat for so long. As I turned the prop oil came out of the exhausts which was normal. Once the oil stoped and I felt I had turned the prop enough times I went to stat the engine. The engine started to turn over and the prop went around about 4 times and then just stopped. Then some oil came out of the left exhaust. I assumed it stopped because I was out of gas (There were a few gallons of 100LL previously used during run-ups). I had very little gas left in the plane and I wasn't feeling a lot of pressure on the primer. So I had the plane filled with gas. After topping off with 100LL I went to turn the prop again and it wouldn't budge. It was stuck solid. I turned the prop in reverse about a turn and a half. Then back in the normal direction, after a turn and a half it stopped in the same spot. It felt much more stiff turning it than usual, and turning it forward it does not move an inch once it hits the spot where it stopped. I pulled the bottom 4 spark plugs and nothing came out. I tried to pull it through again and it still wouldn't budge.

Any ideas? I feel like I hydraulic locked it, but I know there wasn't any oil in there to do so.

Thanks,
Tom

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[/url][url=http://www.aeroelectric.com/]www.aeroelectric.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

No.
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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

Hmm dosent sound too good Crying or Very sad

I had a look back through your other posting about 'engine trouble'.

Quote:
"After some more runups and�a little more reading I do believe it is the carburator diaphram".....

Are you certain you checked for the dreaded hydraulic lock while performing the above runups post changing the fuel? Even if the engine wasnt started and you pulled it through and/or ran it a few mins if it was then left for any time it would need to be pulled through again.

I have an intake drain kit and it always surprises me the amount of oil that can be drained off the intake tubes even after a few hours (like 1/2 pint or more).

Other thoughts....

Maybe a rod was bent sometime ago and this was the cause of the initial rough running as the change to 100LL didnt improve things?

Are there any signs of metal in the oil?
Post findings

Rgs
Harv


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keithmckinley



Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

If you pull that prop through by the tip I think there is enough leverage to do some initial damage to a rod with a piston or two filled with oil? Then during start the oil from the intake? Whatever the case, what a shame.

K


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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: CJ-6 Engine Trouble Reply with quote

No, you will not damage the engine pulling it through by hand. But once it
is turning (i.e. running), it has considerable inertia and when a piston
comes down into a cylinder partially filled with oil, it simply cannot go
further and the weakest link is the connecting rod, which will bend.

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