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gcvisel
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Location: United States
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 Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Can anyone tell me what the moment arms for the pilot(s) and for the
fuel in a Mark III Classic are? I'm considering buying one and wanted
to run some numbers. What is the allowable CG range? Max gross?
Thanx muchly!
Gerry Visel
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW. I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC.
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)>
Can anyone tell me what the moment arms for the pilot(s) and for the
fuel in a Mark III Classic are? I'm considering buying one and wanted
to run some numbers. What is the allowable CG range? Max gross?
Thanx muchly!
Gerry Visel
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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KolbMk3ClassicWAndB.xls |
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gcvisel
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Richard,
When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the
limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were
noticed?)
For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's
recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it
stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done
some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the
engineer in me coming out?)
Gerry Visel
On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: | Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance
numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at
that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for
the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it
flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW.
I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC.
|
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb. Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than that, just ask Hauck. I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the aft limit.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)>
Richard,
When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the
limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were
noticed?)
For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's
recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it
stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done
some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the
engineer in me coming out?)
Gerry Visel
On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote:
> Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance
> numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at
> that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for
> the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it
> flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW.
> I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC.
=
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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crad238(at)suddenlink.net
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Oh, JUST a colonoscopy. [img]cid:87A6894A554A4DDCAB497446625C06E4(at)CarlHP[/img]
From: Richard Girard (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:46 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs
Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb. Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than that, just ask Hauck. I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the aft limit.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com (gcvisel(at)gmail.com)>
Richard,
When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set the
limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight characteristics were
noticed?)
For max weight especially, why would you exceed the designer's
recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make it
stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer had done
some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just the
engineer in me coming out?)
Gerry Visel
On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 09:43 -0600, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: | Earlier this year I did flight testing of a Mk IIIX to get performance
numbers at weights up to 1200 lb. MTOW. While the plane will fly at
that weight, it must be flown very carefully. I set the max weight for
the plane at 1100 lb. when I did the log book entry. At that weight it
flew quite well. For my own Mk IIIC I used 1050 lb as MTOW.
I've attached the Excel spread sheet I use for my IIIC.
|
=
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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gcvisel
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: Mark III Classic Weight & Balance Calcs |
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Yes, that's the right answer(s.) I was worried that someone might do
that without thinking through the effects and risks of a higher max
weight or "out of limits" CG.
I went through all this in college as an aero engineer, but have done
hardly any aero work my whole career, (mostly mechanical/hydraulic
stuff.) Now that I am near retirement and getting back into flying, I
finally get to use some of that practical stuff! (It's a whole lot more
fun when it's real!)
Gerry
On Fri, 2012-11-09 at 19:46 -0600, Richard Girard wrote:
| Quote: | Gerry, The owner wanted the MTOW raised so he could take flight
training in his airplane. The airplane is rated for 4 g's at 1000 lb.
Raising it to 1100 makes it 3.8 and they've been flown heavier than
that, just ask Hauck.
I used the same fore and aft limits as a Cessna 172 (and just about
every straight winged aircraft ever built) and then flew the aircraft
at both limits to see that I had enough elevator power to raise the
nose at the forward limit and it did nothing funny when stalled at the
aft limit.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Gerry Visel <gcvisel(at)gmail.com> wrote:
<gcvisel(at)gmail.com>
Richard,
When you were flight testing, how did you know where to set
the
limits, for both CG and for weight? (What flight
characteristics were
noticed?)
For max weight especially, why would you exceed the
designer's
recommendation? Have you done anything to the design to make
it
stronger than original? I would sure hope that the designer
had done
some stress calcs at the max rated g-loading, (or is that just
the
engineer in me coming out?)
Gerry Visel
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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