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Electric aileron trim

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william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: Electric aileron trim

Im just getting ready to install the electric  aileron trim in my wings before I rivet the bottom wing skins.  Is this  something that needs to be done now or do I need to wait until I have the  ailerons rigged?  Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety"  trim.  Is this something completely different than the standard vans  electric aileron trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a  different one.  Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"  system?

  

 Thanks,

 Bill

   [quote][b]

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues. Not  a replacement but â€œin additionâ€ to. If you have a Vertical Power system, it has  it built in BTW.

  From: Billy Britton (william(at)gbta.net) 

 Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM

 To: RV10-list(at)matronics.com (RV10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Electric aileron trim

  Im just getting ready to install the electric  aileron trim in my wings before I rivet the bottom wing skins.  Is this  something that needs to be done now or do I need to wait until I have the  ailerons rigged?  Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety"  trim.  Is this something completely different than the standard vans  electric aileron trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a  different one.  Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"  system?

 Thanks,

 Bill

[quote]

href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

Correct the Safety Trim module is and additional item added to your trim control system. Here is the link to the unit: http://www.tcwtech.com/Safety-Trim-Page.htm

 

 

 If you have ever tried to fly an RV substantially out of trim it will scare you enough to install some system to reverse the out of trim situation so you can make it safely down. I have installed on in my 6A, 10 & 8A. 

 

 

 Robin

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Pascal [rv10flyer(at)live.com]

 Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim

 

 

 

    I thought the safety trim just avoided runaway Ray allen servo issues. Not a replacement but “in addition” to. If you have a Vertical Power system, it has it built in BTW.

    

  From: Billy Britton (william(at)gbta.net) 

 Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:58 AM

 To:  RV10-list(at)matronics.com (RV10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Electric aileron trim

 

 

  

 

  Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings before I rivet the bottom wing skins.  Is this something that needs to be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?  Also, I read on  Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim.  Is this something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a different one.  Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim"  system?

  

 Thanks,

 Bill

  	  Quote: 	
		  


href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com





===========

_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===========

get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

===========

tp://forums.matronics.com

===========


	
 

 

 

 

 

    [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Electric aileron trim

"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right yoke.)

This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Electric aileron trim

I cannot answer your original question about whether it is better to hook up the aileron trim now or later, as I don't have it. I think you can go either way, I just don't know what's easiest.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but I also have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The co-pilots stick functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all inactive unless the panel switch arms the co-pilot controls. 

I did the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the few times they may be desired. 



Robin

________________________________________

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner [bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu]

Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Electric aileron trim






"Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right yoke.)

This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.



--------

Bob Turner

RV-10 QB





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

Safety Trim is used as a replacement for relays and such.  I have the trim top hat on the control stick going to the Safety Trim box, then from the box to the aileron and elevator trim servos.



On the "co-pilot messing with the trim top hat on his/her stick" problem, I added a Trim/Flap control switch on the panel.  It has a Pilot and Co-Pilot position.  This way the co-pilot cannot inadvertently operate the trim or flap switches on co-pilot stick unless selected.  It has a side benefit of isolating the pilot stick switches if one fails and allowing trim/flap operation from the other stick as a backup.



Carl



On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:29 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right yoke.)

 This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387990#387990

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

You would probably be better off to install the trim now while

it's easy to access...even in a wing cradle.  You could do it

later, but as long as you do it per-plans on the timing, you

won't go wrong.  The important part is to get the measurements

down so that the spring preload isn't high in either direction,

but with the measurements they give, you should be able to do

that easily.



The Safety Trim just replaces the Ray Allen relays.

It makes it a ton easier to wire up your hat switches!

Tim



On 11/15/2012 1:58 PM, Billy Britton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Im just getting ready to install the electric aileron trim in my wings

 before I rivet the bottom wing skins.  Is this something that needs to

 be done now or do I need to wait until I have the ailerons rigged?

 Also, I read on Tim Olsons website about the "safety" trim.  Is this

 something completely different than the standard vans electric aileron

 trim kit or is it simply changing out the ray allen servo for a

 different one.  Anyone have info where to research the "safety trim" system?

 Thanks,

 Bill

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

I did the same.  The one single switch basically disables the

ground on the co-pilot side, so one panel switch can remove

all control from the co-pilot.

Tim

On 11/15/2012 2:40 PM, Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bob, I chose to provide full functionality to the co-pilots stick but

 I also have a Activate Co-Pilots Grip switch on my panel. The

 co-pilots stick functions (Trim/PTT/Flip-flop/AP-Off/Flaps) are all

 inactive unless the panel switch arms the co-pilot controls. I did

 the same for the 8A which was a mistake. Just too complicated for the

 few times they may be desired.



 Robin ________________________________________ From:

 owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Bob Turner

 [bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:29 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Electric aileron

 trim



 

 <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>



 "Safety Trim" is a commercial product. As stated above, it is an

 electronic control box which will not allow the trim to run for more

 than 3 seconds at one button push, to guard against a runaway trim

 situation. This could be due to a stuck top hat switch, or some have

 reported a passenger leaning on the right stick trim switch. (For

 this reason I opted not to install a pitch trim switch on the right

 yoke.) This is more critical for pitch trim, which is much stronger

 than the spring loaded aileron trim. I don't know anyone who has the

 Safety Trim box powering their aileron trim.



 -------- Bob Turner RV-10 QB

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Electric aileron trim

Slight thread drift.....I really like the Trio pro autopilot with auto trim for making fine adjustments to trim manually, when hand flying. Trim speed is programable, slower trim speed with higher airspeed. Between the autopilot trim function, high on center stack, and the Ray Allan rocker, on the panel to the right of the radios, I'm comfortable flying right seat without a right stick top hat?

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

Some details and comments on Safety-trim:    Safety-Trim provides two speed 

control of the trim surfaces, with 3 second runaway prevention.  It 

eliminates the need for any relay decks.    As such, it makes wiring of the 

trim systems very easy,  we've seen most customers choose our two axis 

controller  (pitch and roll trim),  thereby greatly simplifying the wiring, 

instead of using relays for the roll axis and a single axis Safety-Trim for 

pitch.   Lastly the VP trim system is not exactly the same as Safety-Trim. 

If you drive the system for more than 3 seconds with Safety-trim it stops 

the servos from run-away,  if you need to drive more than 3 seconds worth of 

trim, just let up on the switch and press again for more trim.   We patented 

this feature.      The VP system must utilize a menu or another method of 

resetting the time limit to get more than 3 second limit.   (We believe this 

may be quite important on a go-around depending on your aircraft's 

particular trim requirements)



All the details and our instruction sheet can be found on   www.tcwtech.com



Lastly,   regarding installation of the aileron trim servo after the build. 

We did it without issue.   The only pain is that you must remove the bolts 

thru the rod ends on the aileron push tube so you can drill the tube in the 

proper location for the spring attach brackets.   Its also way more fun 

working on your back, laying on the cold hangar floor,  reaching up thru the 

access hole.     Seriously though,  it certainly is not a difficult 

retrofit,   I'd much rather do this than move the fuel flow transducer out 

of the tunnel!

Thanks,

Bob Newman

RV-10

N541RV

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: Electric aileron trim

I'm a very happy safety trim user - 200 hours.  The 3 second thing is a 

good thing all around.  And it did make the wiring easier than using the 

relays.



Going back to the original post - installing the trim in the wing is 

really easy while you have in the cradle.  You just  rivet two little 

bits of aluminum to the pushrod and run the wires to where the trim 

servo is mounted.  You don't even have to do the trim servo mounting at 

this point - it's installed on the access panel and can easily be 

completed whenever.  Determining exactly where the two bits are mounted 

is the only trick, but as I recall (I said "recall"), all you have to do 

is get it close, and that's easy.



In other words, there's very little to do before putting the skins on 

but it does pay to do it before.



And safety trim (and  I assume the VP system) are all installed up by 

the panel so there's nothing to do there relative to the wing.



So if you can roughly locate those two bits of aluminum that attached 

the pushrod to the trim springs, and rivet them, that's all you really 

need to do before skinning.  Getting any and all wiring in is good too 

but a conduit can handle the wiring too.



Bill Watson



On 11/15/2012 6:52 PM, bob-tcw wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Some details and comments on Safety-trim:    Safety-Trim provides two 

 speed control of the trim surfaces, with 3 second runaway prevention.  

 It eliminates the need for any relay decks.    As such, it makes 

 wiring of the trim systems very easy,  we've seen most customers 

 choose our two axis controller  (pitch and roll trim),  thereby 

 greatly simplifying the wiring, instead of using relays for the roll 

 axis and a single axis Safety-Trim for pitch.   Lastly the VP trim 

 system is not exactly the same as Safety-Trim. If you drive the system 

 for more than 3 seconds with Safety-trim it stops the servos from 

 run-away,  if you need to drive more than 3 seconds worth of trim, 

 just let up on the switch and press again for more trim.   We patented 

 this feature. The VP system must utilize a menu or another method of 

 resetting the time limit to get more than 3 second limit.   (We 

 believe this may be quite important on a go-around depending on your 

 aircraft's particular trim requirements)



 All the details and our instruction sheet can be found on www.tcwtech.com



 Lastly,   regarding installation of the aileron trim servo after the 

 build. We did it without issue.   The only pain is that you must 

 remove the bolts thru the rod ends on the aileron push tube so you can 

 drill the tube in the proper location for the spring attach 

 brackets.   Its also way more fun working on your back, laying on the 

 cold hangar floor,  reaching up thru the access hole.     Seriously 

 though,  it certainly is not a difficult retrofit,   I'd much rather 

 do this than move the fuel flow transducer out of the tunnel!

 Thanks,

 Bob Newman

 RV-10

 N541RV



do not archive

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Electric aileron trim

I just hooked up my aileron trim springs to the left wing pushrod. I wouldn't drill holes until final pushrod alignment when the wings are on as it's possible that things won't line up the same as when the wings are in the cradles. I did, however, pre-wire and mount the servo on the wing access panel long ago.



Cheers,

Jay

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: Electric aileron trim

agree. Put the alierons on and get the angles up and down completed before 

doing the trim for them.



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