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Drills and wiring

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naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: Drills and wiring

All-    

     The second battery pack was no  good from the get-go. Wouldn't charge. 

     So, another trip to Home Depot  to exchange for a new drill. I told them I'd give the Ridgid one more chance,  but even if I did have a lifetime warranty, I couldn't keep blowing  half my weekend returning drills instead of using them. Any more problems  and I'm still in the market for something reliable.

     I did get to install a couple of  shop light circuits with the good battery, and the drill performance (Compared  to my old Craftsman) is awesome. Hope there are no more problems. Update- both  packs charged this time.

     Incidentally, I looked for the  models recommended by listers, but there are no local stores that handle them.  As always, thanks for the input.

     Question for the electricians  out there- My big power tools are a drill press, metal band saw, table saw, and  belt/disc sander. I plan on adding a wood band saw and Lincoln 240V stick  welder down the line. 

     I installed a sub breaker panel  from the main and have a 30A 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected  outlet circuits, and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground.  Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit  now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers  if need be.

     Please say I'm done! The price  of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the past two weeks!!!! 

                                                                         Bill

                                       do not  archive

TH-SR

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: WI

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: Drills and wiring

Bill,

 30A for the welder sounds kind of light - I have a 50A  circuit for mine...

 Todd

 Do Not Archive 



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill  Naumuk

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:30 AM

To: zenith  list

Subject: Drills and wiring

 

 All-    

     The second battery pack was no  good from the get-go. Wouldn't charge. 

     So, another trip to Home Depot  to exchange for a new drill. I told them I'd give the Ridgid one more chance,  but even if I did have a lifetime warranty, I couldn't keep blowing  half my weekend returning drills instead of using them. Any more problems  and I'm still in the market for something reliable.

     I did get to install a couple of  shop light circuits with the good battery, and the drill performance (Compared  to my old Craftsman) is awesome. Hope there are no more problems. Update- both  packs charged this time.

     Incidentally, I looked for the  models recommended by listers, but there are no local stores that handle them.  As always, thanks for the input.

     Question for the electricians  out there- My big power tools are a drill press, metal band saw, table saw, and  belt/disc sander. I plan on adding a wood band saw and Lincoln 240V stick  welder down the line. 

     I installed a sub breaker panel  from the main and have a 30A 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected  outlet circuits, and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground.  Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit  now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers  if need be.

     Please say I'm done! The price  of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the past two weeks!!!! 

                                                                         Bill

                                       do not  archive

_________________
Todd
CH701

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

Todd-

     Depends on the welder. Just  talked to my uncle, who owns the same basic model as I'm considering. He does it  on a 20A circuit. 

     New drill doesn't seem as fast  as the last on the first battery. I'll swap them and see if there's a  difference. 

     Don't you love the price of  Romex!? Should have bought copper futures!

                                                                         Bill

                                     do not archive

 [quote]   ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do  

you? It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that  your  

setup looks good as long as you're not going to be running multiple  

loads simultaneously on the same circuit.



On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		       I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A  

 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits,  

 and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground.  

 Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'.  

 Can I quit now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or  

 2-15A 120 breakers if need be.

     Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in  

 the past two weeks!!!!

                                                                      

 Bill

                                     do not archive




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

Bryan-

    You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and to tell 

the truth, I'm puzzled.

     I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes twice 

over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g was for the 

water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my bathrooms wired with 

12g that have never had a problem (I built the house in '8 and neither 

inspector said a thing about them either time. Everyone I've talked to 

around here said, yeah, you've got it right for the welder circuit.

     I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If my 

lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go with 10g.

    As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a time!

                                                                             

                                                                             

        Bill

                                                                        do 

not archive

---

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and 

go with 10g.


	




Bill,



The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit 

breaker action.  It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result 

of the current.  I don't know the building codes, but the standard 

used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 

degrees Celsius.   If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire.



Have fun,



Paul

XL wings

do not archive

---------------------------------------------

Paul Mulwitz

32013 NE Dial Road

Camas, WA 98607

---------------------------------------------

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

In most cases, a 30 amp circuit must be wired with 10 gauge wire. But  

after further research in the NEC, I see that welder circuits are an  

exception to the rule. Article 630 allows the size of the conductor  

to be reduced according to the duty cycle of the welder, so your  

circuit is probably correct.



The voltage of the circuit is irrelevent, the current rating of the  

load is the important factor. The circuit breaker is usually sized to  

protect the wire in the circuit from overheating due to too much  

current flow.

Your 240 volt electric space heaters are probably rated at less than  

16 Amps which would allow a 20 Amp breaker and 12 guage wire.



I used to be an electrician but I haven't worked in that field for  

several years so some of this stuff has faded from memory.



On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bryan-

    You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and  

 to tell the truth, I'm puzzled.

     I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes  

 twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g  

 was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my  

 bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the  

 house in '8 and neither inspector said a thing about them either  

 time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it  

 right for the welder circuit.

     I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If  

 my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go  

 with 10g.

    As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a  

 time!

                                                                        

                                                                        

                    Bill


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

While the whole shop is burning down and melting everyting in it you will 

briefly have plenty of light while you consider the choice of using an 

oversized breaker with undersized wire, and may develop a new perspective on 

dim lights.



Do not archive.

---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

The primary reason for a choosing a particular wire size is to  

prevent overheating due to current. But for long wire runs, voltage  

drop also becomes a factor, the wires should be sized to prevent a  

voltage drop of more than 3% at the farthest end of a branch circuit.  

If you don't follow this guide, you won't cause your lights to dim or  

circuit breakers to pop, your load will just run at under its rated  

voltage. For a motor circuit, this can be a problem as motors don't  

like running under speed. This is one reason major appliances can be  

damaged during a "brown-out". If you've ever run a large drill motor  

at the end of a long extension cord, you may have encountered this  

situation. A 50 foot  extension cord will be rated at a lower current  

than a ten foot cord even if both use the same size wire.

On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>

 At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:

> If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why  

> and go with 10g.

 Bill,

 The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit  

 breaker action.  It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result  

 of the current.  I don't know the building codes, but the standard  

 used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10  

 degrees Celsius.   If you let the wires get really hot there is a  

 risk of fire.

 Have fun,

 Paul

 XL wings

 do not archive

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

jsimons2

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Burlington, NC

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Drills and wiring

Go with the 10 gauge wire and be safe. Most welders require a 30 amp circuit due to their current draw. The only time that #12 gauge wire is allowed to be on a circuit that is protected by more than a 20 amp breaker is on A/C and refridgeration equipment. It is then limited to no more than 25 amps minimum circuit ampacity. This is due to the high, but short duration, startup draw of compressors. No wire is allowed more than 80% of its rating for continuous load. The other receptacle circuits should be fine due to the fact that you will probably never use more than one piece of equipment at a time. All of my info comes straight from the NEC (National Electrical Code). My qualifications?? Senior electrical inspector for the city where I live and over 28 years in the business.



Jerome Simons

very near future 601 HDS scrap builder

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Drills and wiring

Gotta love a scrap builder! Thanks.

                                                                    Bill

                          do not archive

---

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