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SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

Graeme,



 	  Quote: 	
		   My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am

 wondering about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half

of it
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   and adding a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent

might be
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   best though. Any suggestions?


	


I have for several years flown in cold and hot weather with Van's variable

shutter in front of approx. 50% of the radiator - see attached photo (the

photo was taken before I installed an oil thermostat, so I have no plates in

front of the oil cooler anymore).   My 912ULS has 50/50 glycol/water, and I

have not experienced problems even on hot airfields.  However, to be on the

safe side if flying much in hot summers, the shutter can be removed in 30

minutes for such seasonal flying, as this will allow more air to pass

through the radiator.



I purchased the shutter fra Van's Aircraft in the US, and the Bowden cable

with accessories from Aircraft Spruce.



Regards,

Svein

LN-SKJ

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intak

Thats very neat,  thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual.



I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for now.

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_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

Graeme,



I always run with at least 50% of the radiator sealed off with duct tape

during the winter months down here in coldest (?) Kent on my monowheel/912S



Dave Watts

G-BXDY



--

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->                        [img]cid:011d01cdcb56$29C40C55(at)adminPC[/img][img]cid:011e01cdcb56$29C40C55(at)adminPC[/img] Photo E-mail           [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=5&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0]View        slideshow [/url]| [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downloadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=5&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0]Download        images [/url]   According to Rotax there is not a technical minimum cylinder temp but  I agree that we know that a warmer cylinder will be more efficient and the  crankcase and gearbox will not harbor water in the case.

  

 The oil thermostat is one way to get up the oil temp.  I have tried to  make  a simple rear flap to close up the back but you would not believe the  pressure coming out of the rear of those radiators and the duct suction pulling  on the other side of the flap.  A moveable cowl flap will work, but then  we're talking repaint of the cowl.  So how do we get the glycol temp  up?  Tape over 1/3 of the glycol cooler is a start.   Next is  making a removable metal air dam in front of the glycol cooler, but that is not  adjustable.  So what is needed is an adjustable flap that can be set from  the cockpit for those warmer winter days, spring and fall operations or high  altitude cruise operations. 

  

 Those adjustable slotted cooler shutters are a solution.  Unless you  need every bit of cooling air in the summer like I do here in Florida.

  

 Mark Ferkin of High wing LLC (Kitfox guy of fame) makes a shutter for the  Rotax coolers.  It doesn't work well for our setup but the concept  works.

 Van's aircraft has the slotted flap as addressed above and used on  other Northern Europa's but it does block the air needed for summer  options.

  

 For oil cooling, I have installed the oil thermostat and it is very  convenient and automatic so I'm waiting for it to fail...

  

 I really have only one idea for a moveable Europa style XS coolers with a  two inch drop of the oil cooler.  If you have one of my cockpit heaters be  sure to leave a cutout for the heater or the cockpit heat gets shut off.   See below:

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

  

  

  

                   [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!291&parid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=1&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0][img]cid:011f01cdcb56$29C40C55(at)adminPC[/img][/url]

               Just a simple hinge setup with a flapper door to        block the air coming out of the glycol cooler and pivoted near the center        to reduce pull and hold forces.  An oil cooler thermostat takes care        of the oil temps.

                   [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!292&parid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=1&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0][img]cid:012001cdcb56$29C40C55(at)adminPC[/img][/url]

               I really thought this would work but the force        to hold the flap shut against the air outflow from the coolers (and        draw of the cowl ramp) is considerable for a hinged flap at the leading        edge.

    

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

Hi Bud I send to you a drawing of my Coolers flap.

 Michel AUVRAY

 Builder 145

  

  

    

  

   From: Bud Yerly (budyerly(at)msn.com)

 Date: 2012-11-25 22:49

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering  blocking some of intake

     <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->                        [img]cid:_Foxmail.0(at)7C019C53-B5F6-405F-A623-F83FB5F99102[/img][img]cid:_Foxmail.1(at)3ED1EF97-21A6-4878-A39E-FFFDDE60289A[/img] Photo E-mail           [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=5&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0]View        slideshow [/url]| [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downloadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=5&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0]Download        images [/url]   According to Rotax there is not a technical minimum cylinder temp but  I agree that we know that a warmer cylinder will be more efficient and the  crankcase and gearbox will not harbor water in the case.

  

 The oil thermostat is one way to get up the oil temp.  I have tried to  make  a simple rear flap to close up the back but you would not believe the  pressure coming out of the rear of those radiators and the duct suction pulling  on the other side of the flap.  A moveable cowl flap will work, but then  we're talking repaint of the cowl.  So how do we get the glycol temp  up?  Tape over 1/3 of the glycol cooler is a start.   Next is  making a removable metal air dam in front of the glycol cooler, but that is not  adjustable.  So what is needed is an adjustable flap that can be set from  the cockpit for those warmer winter days, spring and fall operations or high  altitude cruise operations. 

  

 Those adjustable slotted cooler shutters are a solution.  Unless you  need every bit of cooling air in the summer like I do here in Florida.

  

 Mark Ferkin of High wing LLC (Kitfox guy of fame) makes a shutter for the  Rotax coolers.  It doesn't work well for our setup but the concept  works.

 Van's aircraft has the slotted flap as addressed above and used on  other Northern Europa's but it does block the air needed for summer  options.

  

 For oil cooling, I have installed the oil thermostat and it is very  convenient and automatic so I'm waiting for it to fail...

  

 I really have only one idea for a moveable Europa style XS coolers with a  two inch drop of the oil cooler.  If you have one of my cockpit heaters be  sure to leave a cutout for the heater or the cockpit heat gets shut off.   See below:

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

  

  

  

                   [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!291&parid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=1&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0][img]cid:_Foxmail.2(at)931EA0B9-EB61-474F-92DA-0DA2A8F2900F[/img][/url]

               Just a simple hinge setup with a flapper door to        block the air coming out of the glycol cooler and pivoted near the center        to reduce pull and hold forces.  An oil cooler thermostat takes care        of the oil temps.

                   [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!292&parid=2161856909618AA7!290&type=1&authkey=!APxkChnz5qtFle0][img]cid:_Foxmail.3(at)FE63DFED-71E2-4760-9B63-652C5E2C4521[/img][/url]

               I really thought this would work but the force        to hold the flap shut against the air outflow from the coolers (and        draw of the cowl ramp) is considerable for a hinged flap at the leading        edge.

    

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Good for blocking the air bypassing, but we need a flap to actually stop  the air going to or from the cooler to warm up the oil.

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

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