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Time of Day

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alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: Time of Day

Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB will be bounced around too much. 



My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want to be able to fly more times of the day then that. 



Thanks,



Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: Time of Day

I think you build up your tolerance for flying mid-day. Some people never enjoy it and don't fly ever mid-day - I fly mid-day on a regular basis unless the wind gusts are more than I can tolerate. If it's gusting more than 15 mph I usually stay on the ground. On the other hand, I've flown in strong but steady winds that are much higher. I fly fixed wing "fat ultralights" - now registered LSA.

Arty Trost

Sandy, Oregon





www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm

"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                      Helen Keller

"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."

        From: alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 6:43 AM

 Subject: Kolb-List: Time of Day

  

 

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>



Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB will be bounced around too much. 



My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want to be able to fly more times of the day then that. 



Thanks,



Wes



--------

Wesley Elliott

Sport  Pilot-PPC





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390842#390842

=           (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List[/url] [quote][b]

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: Time of Day

Wes



Unlike powered parachutes Kolbs in particular and LSAs in general can fly mid day with no problems. I have when traveling (flying all day) strapped aux fuel tank and camping gear down to keep them from flying around the cockpit. These airplanes at least Kolb airplanes are very rugged. When I fly for the fun of it, I fly mornings and evenings just like I do when I rent a Piper or Cessna.  

 

Rick Neilsen

1st redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 9:43 AM, alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB will be bounced around too much.

 

 My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want to be able to fly more times of the day then that.

 

 Thanks,

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390842#390842

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

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 le, List Admin.

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: Time of Day

Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings

fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB

will be bounced around too much.



My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want

to be able to fly more times of the day then that.



Thanks,



Wes

 



Wes/Kolbers:



Been a few days, but yes, we fly our Kolbs generally when we want to, unless

the wind is extreme.  Extreme for me is anything over 15 mph.  After that,

most small airplanes are uncomfortable to fly.



Was reminiscing a bit after I got an email from Russ Kinne telling me he had

gotten a new home in Maine.  I looked up the location on the map which

sparked looking at a route I flew in my 1987 Firestar, summer of 1989.  I

was visiting Bert and Ellen Howland, designer of the Howland line of

ultralights, in Maryland, NY, having flown there from Alabama in the

Firestar.  Decided to fly the New England states while I was there.



I was able to fly New York, Connecticut, Road Island, Massachusetts, Maine,

New Hampshire, Vermont, and back to New York in one day, a flight of

approximately 546 miles, cruising at 60 to 65 mph.  Highlight of that flight

was flying around, but not too close, President Bush's vacation home in

Kennebunkport, Maine.



I don't recall how many flight hours involved in that flight.  Wind was not

a factor in whether I would fly or not.  I departed Bert's grass strip early

in the morning and landed about 2100, just as it was getting dark.  Perfect

timing.  



By the way, had I driven to the same places, the trip would have been 710

miles and taken two days to complete.



Wish I could still fly like that.  Discovered there was a lot of difference

between age of 50 and 73.



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all the Kolbers out there.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: Time of Day

Merry Christmas to you too John!

 

  

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly

 

 [quote]    

From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 12:24 PM

Subject: RE: Time of Day

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>



Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings

fly mid day like a Cessna, but  my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB

will be bounced around too much.



My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want

to be able to fly more times of the day then that.



Thanks,



Wes

Wes/Kolbers:



Been a few days, but yes, we fly our Kolbs generally when we want to, unless

the wind is extreme.  Extreme for me is anything over 15 mph.  After that,

most small airplanes are uncomfortable to fly.



Was reminiscing a bit after I got an email from Russ Kinne telling me he had

gotten a new home in Maine.  I looked up the location on the map which

sparked looking at a route I flew in my 1987 Firestar, summer of 1989.  I

was visiting Bert and Ellen Howland, designer of the Howland line of

ultralights, in Maryland, NY, having flown there from Alabama in the

Firestar.  Decided to fly the New England states while I was there.



I  was able to fly New York, Connecticut, Road Island, Massachusetts, Maine,

New Hampshire, Vermont, and back to New York in one day, a flight of

approximately 546 miles, cruising at 60 to 65 mph.  Highlight of that flight

was flying around, but not too close, President Bush's vacation home in

Kennebunkport, Maine.



I don't recall how many flight hours involved in that flight.  Wind was not

a factor in whether I would fly or not.  I departed Bert's grass strip early

in the morning and landed about 2100, just as it was getting dark.  Perfect

timing.  



By the way, had I driven to the same places, the trip would have been 710

miles and taken two days to complete.



Wish I could still fly like that.  Discovered there was a lot of difference

between age of 50 and 73.



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all the Kolbers out there.



john h

mkIII

Titus, nbsp;   * The Builder's Bookstore http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List</ content also available via the Web =============



[b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: Time of Day

Hi Chris,

 unless you are mixed up in Texas thermals or fly  regularly in the downdraft from a mountain wave system you can fly whever  the wind is below what you are comfortable with. You will soon establish  that.

 The Kolb will take more punishment than you  will.

 That said unless you really have places to go the  morning and evening flights are often the most enjoyable.

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: Time of Day

Wes, Airframes; don't leave Earth without them. Or, as my friend Mike says, "Powered Parachutes are the answer to the question, Why didn't God make aerial jelly fish?"



Rick Girard

 do not archive



On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 8:43 AM, alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB will be bounced around too much.

 

 My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I want to be able to fly more times of the day then that.

 

 Thanks,

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390842#390842

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

 

 	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Time of Day

Wes, 



I hear that winds in the Midwest really howl during the day.   Even in the east, where the winds are generally lighter during the day, most powered parachute flying is still done near dawn or dusk.  Sure, a 152 bounces around more than a 172 and a Kolb bounces more than a 152 etc.  Here, ultralights are flown all day long.  You will soon learn the limits of what you can tolerate and enjoy.  I am sure that, at the very least, your flying hours will be greatly extended with a Kolb.

_________________
Jerry King

alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Time of Day

Thanks group for all the responses.



I want to use a Fixed Wing to help scout Elk and Deer here in New Mexico in addition to flying for fun. The Kolb seems like the best of both worlds for this as I can fold the wings and still have a STOL aircraft. How does the KOLB handle the backcountry takeoff/landings at high elevations?



Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Time of Day

> we fly our Kolbs generally when we want to



I have an '80's Firestar. Before I can fly it I need to finish re-covering it. I am not a pilot, have a few lessons so far. Do you guys feel a lil apprehension when flying in bumpy air? Do you start to wonder about just how strong are those attachment points? Do you fly with a parachute? Do you sometimes long for one? In bumpy air, could you idle the engine and soar? Assuming you aren't really headed anywhere in particular.



A Wannabee just wondering, which is what I do best.

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

smlplanet(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Time of Day

I can't speak for the high elevations being I am at sea level. I will say the Kolb has been good to me. Here I have the cow pastures, back roads and sandy beaches to play with. Depending on which one you are looking at I would look closely at the steel legs, over sized tires and VG's 

as they do make a big difference.



Skybiker   MK3/912/ul

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Time of Day

 From: elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com

 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:54:24 -0800

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com>

 

 Thanks group for all the responses.

 

 I want to use a Fixed Wing to help scout Elk and Deer here in New Mexico in addition to flying for fun. The Kolb seems like the best of both worlds for this as I can fold the wings and still have a STOL aircraft. How does the KOLB handle the backcountry takeoff/landings at high elevations?

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390886#390886

 

 

 

&gt=============
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: Time of Day

How does the KOLB handle the backcountry takeoff/landings at high

elevations?



Wes

 

Wes/Kolbers:



Done a little bit of flying out West, as well as my old buddy John

Williamson.  Many years ago John and I were flying from Alamosa, CO, to

Farmington, NM.  Best way to get there was direct over the Rockies.  John

hit 15,000 feet and I was at 14,500 feet when we decided we had plenty

altitude to clear the mountains.



I have flown West from Alabama every year since 2003, except 2010.  Those

flights have seen 12,000 to 13,000 feet many times.



In 2008 John W and I flew some of the Idaho back country airstrips.  One of

those was Soldiers Bar.  It is pretty much back country:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90mqPLT1z4c

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: Time of Day

Depending on which one you are looking at I would look closely at the

steel legs, over sized tires and VG's 

as they do make a big difference.



Skybiker   MK3/912/ul 



I don't have VGs on my Kolb, although I have flown other Kolbs equipped with

them.



Saying "as they do make a big difference" could mean a lot of things.



What did they do for your MKIII?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: Time of Day

I don't mind flying in bumpy air; actually I enjoy it.  For me the limiting factor to that enjoyment is the sluggish aileron response of my Ultrastar which can get dicey landing on a gusty day, and the wind I can handle while folding the wings.  But I also fly PPG, so when I got the Ultrastar it was refreshing to fly all day and not really worry about getting caught upstairs.



 Dana



 At 02:17 PM 12/24/2012, GeoB wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  I have an '80's Firestar. Before I can fly it I need to finish re-covering it. I am not a pilot, have a few lessons so far. Do you guys feel a lil apprehension when flying in bumpy air? Do you start to wonder about just how strong are those attachment points? Do you fly with a parachute? Do you sometimes long for one? In bumpy air, could you idle the engine and soar? Assuming you aren't really headed anywhere in particular. 	


 --

 Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: Time of Day

The Kolb in all its various manifestations are in my opinion the best

compromise that you can get. If I had to wreck my plane, I would rather be

in a Kolb than any thing else. It is strong and will fly you to safety given

half a chance.  The Kolb will tolerate rough air much better than you

ever will. It isn't fun, but it is possible.

 Larry



Kolbers:



These are extremely good points made by Larry C.



Crashworthiness is worth its weight in gold when you need it.  Never been

injured in a Kolb crash, other than my pride and my pocket book.



Like Larry, I have aborted far more off field landings than I have made.

The only one I should have aborted and didn't was across the Alaska Highway

from Rocky Mountain Lodge, Muncho Lake, British Columbia.  That one resulted

in tearing up my airplane and spending a month traveling to Alabama for

recovery vehicle, return to Muncho Lake, and then get the MKIII back home.

Sure wish I had aborted that one.  



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Time of Day

> the limiting factor to that enjoyment is the sluggish aileron response of my Ultrastar. 



Does my Firestar-I have better aileron response than your ultrastar? The ailerons look huge on mine!  



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: Time of Day

What did they do for your MKIII?>>



What the VG`s did for mine John was to make it legal by lowering the 

stalling speed enough to comply with the UK rules.

Without them we would have no Xtra`s on the market here.



Merry Christmas from a very waterlogged UK



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: Time of Day

In bumpy air, could you idle the engine and soar?>>



Depends what is causing the bumps.If it is thermals YES is the answer. Given 

a strong enough thermal you can soar a barn door. Certainly a couple of 

knots on the variometer is enough  to scrape with a bit of engine. Given 4 

knots you can climb with dead idle (or engine off if you are good enough and 

have enough confidence in your starting the engine  again.)

You need some gliding experience. Otherwise find a ridge with the wind 

deflected over it. Cut the engine and stay up all day.



Merry Christmas



Pat

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: Time of Day

At 05:14 PM 12/24/2012, GeoB wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>



 > the limiting factor to that enjoyment is the sluggish aileron response of my Ultrastar. 



 Does my Firestar-I have better aileron response than your ultrastar? The ailerons look huge on mine!  	


 It should... the problem with the Ultrastar is the wing itself twists, so the ailerons like a trim tab, the wing twists the other way and partially cancels it out.  I believe the Firestar's wing is stiffer due to a different wing root attachment.  The ailerons on the US actually work worse the faster you go.



 -Dana

 

 --

 Ever notice there's no crime at a shooting range?  

    [quote][b]

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:13 am Post subject: Time of Day

At 06:43 AM 12/23/12 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Do many here on the list fly during the mid day? I know other fixed wings 

fly mid day like a Cessna, but my concern is that a light plane like a KOLB 
	


will be bounced around too much. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

My current Powered Parachute flying is limited to morning or evening. I 

want to be able to fly more times of the day then that. 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  


	




Wes,



I have found that if my back does not come off the seat and if my rear does 

not move relative to the fuselage, I am comfortable flying in unstable air.  

I use a five point seat belt harness. See: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly78.html



The original FireFly design used 15 inch chord ailerons which were 

impossible to deflect at cruise speed.  On cross country flights this 

ensured you arrived with a sore shoulder and an upset stomach due to 

continuous dutch rolls to pick up the falling wing.  By shortening the 

aileron chord to 9 inches and reworking the aileron actuation mechanism, I 

am able, by using two fingers on the stick, to keep the wings level in rough 

air at cruise.  See: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly26.html



With these changes, the FireFly is a good rough air flyer.  Aileron response 

is excellent and, it forward and side slip very well with little stick 

pressure.  When I am going some where, I cruise at 2,000 to 3,000 feet agl 

where I find the air smoother and gives me more options if the engine quits. 

 The roughest art of the flight will be climb out and let down.  I keep the 

speed around 40 mphi and only worry about keeping the wings level.  I can 

take a lot of bouncing as long as I feel that I have immediate control 

response.



Flying comfortably in rough air is an acquired skill.  I developed it by 

flying the pattern, starting with quiet wind days and then flew additional 

flights on days when the wind was progressively higher.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

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