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Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

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tmoushon(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

I am about to start my RV10 wings... I plan to use Pulsar NS90 wingtip lights and Duckworth 35W HID landing lights. My plan is to install an Archer design communication antenna in the right wing and an Archer design antenna in the left which would be split for both VOR and Glideslope. All will be tied together with RG-58C/U.  My question is simple. Do these components play well together given their close proximity?  Any suggestions? 



Terry 

Builder #41393

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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

I presume you've read all the posts about the Archer antennas, e.g. Most would say the nav is pretty good, the com is fair, compared to an external antenna. Be sure to bend the com to get as much vertical run as possible in the arm with the feedline attachment.

I know RG400 is more expensive than RG58 but the 400 should buy you a bit less loss, why run cheap coax in a new plane?

I have a Duckworks HD in the same wingtip as my Archer clone com antenna. When I turn it on there is a just perceptible reduction in signal to noise, e.g.,if I can just barely make out the ATIS with the HD off, then I cannot quite understand it with the HD on. If the signal is already strong then I cannot hear the difference.

I have no experience with the strobe/nav lights you mention, except to say that I know some have had trouble with high power LED's generating a lot of RF interference.

Question: most LEDs tend to be pretty directional. Do these meet the requirements for night flight?

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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

Well, whatever you are saving by using an Archer antenna for com, you 

are losing in both cost of coax and in performance. A good external com 

antenna may cost you 50-70 more, but will need 1/2 the coax to reach it, 

give you double the reception/transmission range. Also, having wingtip 

antennas precludes using any metallic variety of paint on the wingtips, 

and makes them vulnerable to any noise the nav/strobe lights generate. 

IIRC some folks have had some RF noise issues with the AeroLED lights, 

but could be wrong. Yes, the external antenna might cost you .5 kts in 

cruise speed, but good rigging will do more for you than any antenna 

drag reduction efforts.

Kelly

On 1/10/2013 5:45 PM, Terry Moushon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am about to start my RV10 wings... I plan to use Pulsar NS90 wingtip lights and Duckworth 35W HID landing lights. My plan is to install an Archer design communication antenna in the right wing and an Archer design antenna in the left which would be split for both VOR and Glideslope. All will be tied together with RG-58C/U.  My question is simple. Do these components play well together given their close proximity?  Any suggestions?



 Terry

 Builder #41393






	


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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 am Post subject: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

What Kelly and Bob said.



I originally had the two Archers, the Duckworths and some no longer 

available LED tip lights.  Can't speak to interference but I did do 

everything in the Archer installs to optimize their performance.



The Archer Nav works fine, especially in the GPS era we're in. Tim and 

perhaps others have tested and documented  Archer Nav performance 

relative to standard external Nav antennas.  They are sub-optimal but 

work acceptably.  I too have two Nav radios attached to the single 

antenna - they both work acceptably for nav and approach work.  I'd do 

it again.



The Archer Comm antenna is another matter.  I have two comm radios and 

treated the G430 comm and Archer combination as my "backup" with an SL30 

and a bottom mounted whip as my primary comm.  I knew long before I flew 

that I would prefer the SL30 for most communications.  I prefer to stick 

to navigation-only on the G430 - just a personal preference and perhaps 

a lack of synapses.



This primary/backup thing worked fine as long as both were working.  I'd 

use the backup G430 before takeoff for ATIS and Clearances.  Sometimes 

I'd plug in ground control at a busy airport.  Though others have 

reported some blanking of the signal if the Archer wing tip was 

oppposite the ATC antenna, I never experienced even a "say again" when 

on the ground or close-in to an airport.  In fact, I occassionally used 

the Archer in cruise without much of a thought.  But it was clear that 

the SL30/whip was better.



On my longest trip, at the furthest possible point away from home base 

(8nc8 to KSDL), my SL30 got zapped by some convective electrical 

activity.  (Perversely, it only partially failed and took unnecessary 

time and $$$ to fix but that's another story).



Immediately going to my 'backup' radio and antenna, I found my 

communications garbled and inconsistent as I entered the Phoenix Class B 

while exiting an electrically active snow squall line. Ouch.



After doing a little local flying with the backup, it seemed to work 

okay in most situations.  It probably had a little less range and 

sometimes was a bit garbled.  But notably, I would get some "say 

agains"  as I manuevered.  This would be fine for a VFR leg or two to 

get home but not acceptable for 3 long IFR legs through busy airspace.



The point I want to make is that the Archer Comm works okay as a comm2 

as long as you have a comm1.  Or for perhaps for casual VFR work.  But 

for me, it didn't work as part of a "backup" comm2 when backup function 

was truly needed.  And that's why I put two comms in.



I suggest sticking 1 or 2 whips on the bottom.  There's plenty of room 

and lot's of advice here on where and how to install them. People have 

reported some possible blanking of the signals by the fuselage when on 

the ground.  I've never experienced that.  In any case, that's manageable.



Without facts or experience to back me  up..... Crikey, use the 400!!  

or not.



(Thanks again Kelly for your help out in Phoenix!!)



Bill "prepped to do some proficiency work in some actual but the runway 

got too wet" Watson

N215TG

Durham NC



On 1/10/2013 7:45 PM, Terry Moushon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am about to start my RV10 wings... I plan to use Pulsar NS90 wingtip lights and Duckworth 35W HID landing lights. My plan is to install an Archer design communication antenna in the right wing and an Archer design antenna in the left which would be split for both VOR and Glideslope. All will be tied together with RG-58C/U.  My question is simple. Do these components play well together given their close proximity?  Any suggestions?



 Terry

 Builder #41393

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rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

My suggestion is that if you're going to use the nav antenna to fly real IFR with real approaches, get an externally-mounted antenna to ensure maximum reception.  



On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Terry Moushon <tmoushon(at)gmail.com (tmoushon(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Terry Moushon <tmoushon(at)gmail.com (tmoushon(at)gmail.com)>

  

 I am about to start my RV10 wings... I plan to use Pulsar NS90 wingtip lights and Duckworth 35W HID landing lights. My plan is to install an Archer design communication antenna in the right wing and an Archer design antenna in the left which would be split for both VOR and Glideslope. All will be tied together with RG-58C/U.  My question is simple. Do these components play well together given their close proximity?  Any suggestions?

  

 Terry

 Builder #41393

 

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Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K

  [quote][b]

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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

Everyone has their own opinion. The Archer nav antenna - since it is well matched to the VOR horizontal polarization - works almost as well as an external antenna. I have never had an issue with it or an approach, whether ILS or VOR. The only issue is enroute, where a cross fix more than 40 nm away might be hard to get, if it's on the 'wrong' side of the airframe.

For me the VOR has become a backup, since I use the GPS as primary 99.9% of the time. Besides, I'm always afraid I'll poke my eyes out on cat whiskers!



Also, I have Whelan strobes in the wing tip, no issues.

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_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:30 pm Post subject: Antenna Opinions, experiance and thoughts appreciated

The "cat whiskers" problem is no joke.  I didn't think much of it when my fuselage was on sawhorses, but once I got it up on the gear, I realized it's right at little-kid-running-around eye height.  I haven't heard of any incidents, but I think if/when I go to airshows I'll bring a couple foam clown noses or tennis balls to put on there. 



-Rob



On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

 

 Everyone has their own opinion. The Archer nav antenna - since it is well matched to the VOR horizontal polarization - works almost as well as an external antenna. I have never had an issue with it or an approach, whether ILS or VOR. The only issue is enroute, where a cross fix more than 40 nm away might be hard to get, if it's on the 'wrong' side of the airframe.

  For me the VOR has become a backup, since I use the GPS as primary 99.9% of the time. Besides, I'm always afraid I'll poke my eyes out on cat whiskers!

 

 Also, I have Whelan strobes in the wing tip, no issues.

 

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K

 

  [quote][b]

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