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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct.
From: b young (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM
To: frank goodnight (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)
Subject: Re: 912 elect
I think some how my computer don’t like forwarding the graphics in your post.
this was my reply
boyd
Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys.
looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc.
What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent
in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5(at) is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 (at) or 16 mm squared
What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp
my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't
think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is
that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground
Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps
[quote][b]
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire..
The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others..
Herb
At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote:
[quote]frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct.
From: b young (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM
To: frank goodnight (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)
Subject: Re: 912 elect
I think some how my computer don’t like forwarding the graphics in your post.
this was my reply
boyd
Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys.
looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc.
What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent
in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5(at) is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 (at) or 16 mm squared
What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp
my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't
think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is
that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground
Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps
[b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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Herb:
I am away from home and my manuals. The reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines.
john h
mkIII
Woodville, FL
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fw: 912 elect
Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire..
The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others..
Herb
At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote:<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><![endif]>
frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct.
From: b young (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM
To: frank goodnight (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)
Subject: Re: 912 elect
I think some how my computer don’t like forwarding the graphics in your post.
this was my reply
boyd
Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys.
looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc.
What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent
in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5(at) is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 (at) or 16 mm squared
What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp
my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't
think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is
that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground
Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps01234567890123
[quote][b]
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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Lots on the net... the output is two yellow wires...shielded...and they go to the reg/rect the inputs which are normally shown with a sign wave inscription .. Rotax choses to mark those with a "G". The + or output goes to a filter cap and a slow blow fuse...30 amp... and on to the plus side of the battery....normally found at the starter solenoid...Capacitor is 22k ufd or there bouts...not critical..just there for noise transients.. All pretty much the same as 2 cycle...Herb
At 12:30 PM 1/16/2013, you wrote:
[quote] Herb:
I am away from home and my manuals. The reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines.
john h
mkIII
Woodville, FL
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fw: 912 elect
Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire..
The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others..
Herb
At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote:
frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct.
From: b young (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM
To: frank goodnight (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)
Subject: Re: 912 elect
I think some how my computer don̢۪t like forwarding the graphics in your ur post.
this was my reply
boyd
Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys.
looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc.
What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent
in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5(at) is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 (at) or 16 mm squared
What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp
my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't
think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is
that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground
Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps
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[b]
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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Here is a link. Lots more there... Herb
http://www.search-document.com/pdf/1/8/rotax-912-wiring.html
At 12:30 PM 1/16/2013, you wrote:
[quote] Herb:
I am away from home and my manuals. The reg/rec for the 912 series engines are similar, but also quite different from the 2 stroke Rotax engines.
john h
mkIII
Woodville, FL
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Herb Gayheart
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:33 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fw: 912 elect
Same as the yellow wires on other Rotaxing engines.. the two yellow wires are the alternator output...AC , whose frequency varies with rpm's. There should be no short to ground when measuring each yellow wire..
The case of the regulator can be ground or there can be a black wire coming out for ground...Red is positive 13.8 or there bouts... The AC input voltage to the regulator can be quite high..though I have never measured it.. This info based on two cycle engines...should be the same for others..
Herb
At 10:51 AM 1/16/2013, you wrote:
frank contacted me direct and said that only the header came through to me. so I shot this back to him direct.
From: b young (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:48 AM
To: frank goodnight (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)
Subject: Re: 912 elect
I think some how my computer don̢۪t like forwarding the graphics in your ur post.
this was my reply
boyd
Need help understanding the 912 uls generating sys.
looking at page 17-1 fig 29 of the rotax install manual. I need to know if i can check for voltage between one of the yellow (ge) wires and ground, or between the two yellow wires , and if so what should the voltage be.I would measure from yellow to yellow.... not sure but I think if there is a yellow to ground voltage, there may be a short. I would think the voltage would change with the rpm... but should be greater than 14 v probably around 18 V ac or there about. the regulator/rectifier will convert from ac to dc at the proper charge voltage for the battery. my eis showes 13.8 v dc.
What does the 2,5 and a little square box repesent
in the wires going to the G terminals on the rectifier?I am thinking, the 2.5(at) is the wire size,, EG:2.5 mm squared the battery to the starter motor is 16 (at) or 16 mm squared
What is # 11 in fig 29 if it is a diode , what kind and where can i find one. it is a 3 W 12 V charge indicating lamp
my engine was removed from a wrecked plane and i don't
think the hookup used the capaciator or whatever #11 is
that is shown in fig 29. thanks to anyone that can help me. I did not use the charge indicator lamp.. the eis shows battery voltage.. but I did use the capacitor shown as item (10) in the diagram between B+ and ground
Frank Goodnight boyd young mkiii utah hope this helps
| Quote: | Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -
The Kolb-List Email Forum
-[/b] |
| Quote: | Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
-[/b] |
| Quote: | Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
 - List Contribution Web Site
-[/b] |
| Quote: | Â Thank you for your
generous
support![/b] |
| Quote: | Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
               -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.[/b] |
0
[b]
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: 912 elect |
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To search for parts or accessories click on the SHOP tab (left) and search in the shop.
rotax 4-stroke - ignition & charging
912UL, 912A, 912F, 912ULS, 912S, 914UL and 914F Engines
resistance values / trigger gaps of the ignition unit
The values indicated below can be checked on the engine installed in the aircraft, after detaching connections:
Generator coil (on stator)
yellow – yellow
0.1-0.8 ohms
Generator winding
yellow – grounding
open circuit
Charging coil (on stator)
red – ground
3.2-4.5 ohms
Trigger coil
green/white – blue/yellow
115-123 ohms
Trigger coil new* (with clamps)
white/yellow – blue/yellow
220-250 ohms
Ignition coil, primary
connection contact – ground
0.1-0.4 ohms
Ignition coil, secondary
high voltage – high voltage
6.1-6.7 kohms
Resistance spark plug connector
4.4-6.0 kohms
Trigger gap old style
0.4-0.5mm (16-20 thou)
Trigger gap new style with clamps
0.3-0.4mm (12-16 thou)
* fitted in serial production, starting with design year 1995
spark plugs & plug gaps
ENGINE
PLUG TYPE
PART NUMBER
PLUG GAP
CHANGE INTERVAL S (unleaded mogas)
CHANGE INTERVALS (avgas)
912UL
DCPR7E
897255
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
200 hours
100 hours
912A
DCPR7E
897255C
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
200 hours
100 hours
912F
DCPR7E
897255C
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
200 hours
100 hours
912ULS
DCPR8E
297940
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
200 hours
100 hours
912S
DCPR8E
297940C
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
200 hours
100 hours
914UL
X27EPR
897257
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
100 hours
100 hours
914F
X27EPR
897257C
0.6-0.7 mm (0.024 – 0.028 in)
100 hours
100 hours
resistance values / trigger gaps of the ignition unit
spark plugs & plug gaps
All information provided here is correct at the time of publishing to the best of our knowledge, but Rotax recommendations may change at any time without our knowledge. It is the engine owners responsibility to ensure that the engine is fit for flight at all times. The information is provided here free of charge and with no obligation from us to the consumer. To ensure that you have the correct and most up to date information, you should refer to the current Installation, Operators and Maintenance manuals for your engine. The information provided here may not be valid for aircraft outside the UK. Click here for ConAir SportsTerms& Conditions, including website usage policy.
Always apply the correct heat sink paste to plug threads, see here
wiring diagrams
The wiring diagram is in the Installation manual for the engine which can be downloaded from the Documentation page at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com
wiring diagrams
does the ignition system need a battery to run the engine?
No, the ignition system is completely self generating and redundant (two separate ignition systems).
912 series engines - circuit A fires 1-2 top 3-4 bottom plugs
circuit B fires 1-2 bottom 3-4 top plugs
914 series engines - A fires all top, B fires all bottom plugs
how does the electronic ignition work (basic description)?
Rotating magnets in the flywheel generate power as they pass over coil windings on the stator. The power generated is stored in capacitors in the SMD modules until the “triggers” send a signal to the capacitor which then passes the power to the secondary coils, which increase the voltage and send it, via the ignition cables, to the spark plugs.
generator / regulator
Regulators need cooling - mounting in the engine bay is not a good idea and can cause premature failure.
The regulator output is 250W at 5500rpm. The output is less at cruise rpms. Do not overload the electrical system - items such as electrically heated clothing put high demands on the charging system.
Here is some trouble shooting info on the 912...Charging system...Herb
914 engines rely on the electrical system for the fuel pumps. Improper installation or overloading of the charging system should be avoided.
Problem: Battery not charging (I.e. Low voltage)
Solutions: Remove the yellow wires and check the resistance between them is 0.3 - 0.8 ohms. If the resistance is infinity then you have a broken wire (open circuit). Re-install the yellow wires, run engine at idle and check output form yellow wires (should be 18-20 AC volts). Check output from B+ terminal or regulator, should be 14 DC volts - check the battery is charged - the regulator needs to be connected to a charged battery to energise it.
Problem: The generator is putting out AC volts but the Regulator is not putting out more than battery voltage - regulator is faulty.
Solution: Replace the regulator
Problem: The generator is not producing AC volts, the stator wiring is faulty.
Solution: Check / replace the stator wiring. Replace the stator.
Check grounds on Regulator & engine block before ordering new parts! Check your wiring if you fail more than one regulator - faulty regulators are not common but crossed wires are!
[quote][b]
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:24 am Post subject: Re: 912 elect |
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...the output is two yellow wires...shielded...and they go to the reg/rect the inputs which are normally shown with a sign wave inscription .. Rotax choses to mark those with a "G"....
For those wondering why Rotax chose to mark these with the letter G, the German word for Yellow is Gelb.
do not archive
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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