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Confused about FAA Registration ...

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rsbiser

Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

I recently bought a used Kolb Mark III Xtra. It already has an airworthiness certificate, but it has been de-registered by the former owner. In other words, he canceled the N Number and removed it from the aircraft. 



I have reserved a new N Number.



Can anyone help me understand what registration process I must go through to register the plane with my newly reserved N Number? What forms must I submit, etc.?



Thanks,



Scott

_________________
Scott Biser

Cincinnati, Ohio

Mark III Xtra

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

call your local Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)



BOYD YOUNG



--

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:34 am Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

That will be a tough one. About the only option open to you is Experimental Exhibition since you didn't build it and it can't go Experimental Amateur Built.



Rick Girard



 On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:19 AM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)>

 

 call your local Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)

 

 BOYD YOUNG

 

 --

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:51 am Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Buy some paperwork from a wreck??  Herb 



 

 At 12:33 PM 1/22/2013, you wrote:

 [quote]That will be a tough one. About the only option open to you is Experimental Exhibition since you didn't build it and it can't go Experimental Amateur Built.



 Rick Girard



 On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:19 AM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com) > wrote:

   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com) >



  call your local Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)



  BOYD YOUNG



  --

alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Since you have an Airworthiness Certificate I think there is hope. The N-Number is nothing more than a $5 fee to the FAA. The AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE is the one thats hard to get. I ran across this on another forum.

"So, if you don't re-register and you lose your N-number, you should still be able to get your aircraft re-instated. You'd have to register it and, if more than 90 days past due, it would be registered under a new N-number. You would then have to take your AWC and Ops Limits to the FSDO and have them re-issued under the new N-number. It shouldn't be anymore complicated than getting new paperwork after changing the N-number to a unique number (vanity number.) (I've done that. It's not too much trouble to do."



Now, if it was the other way around and you only had an N number and NO Airworthiness Cert, you would be screwed. Only route then would be Experimental Exhibition.



Congrats on your new plane as I am jealous,



Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Wes, Most of what you say is true, unless your airplane is E-LSA and not derived from an S-LSA airplane (like the RV-12) or demoted from an S-LSA when the manufacturer went out of business. If you let your registration expire on an E-LSA that was registered during the grandfathering phase of starting up LSA there is no way to go back and re-register. Why, because 21.191 i(1) expired on 1-31-2008. The version of form 8088A that was used during the grandfathering period to apply for registration expired then, too. I'm sure the good folks at the Light Sport Branch of the FAA in Oklahoma City are tired of confirming it, but you can call them and check it out. 



Rick Girard

do not archive



On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:16 PM, alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 Since you have an Airworthiness Certificate I think there is hope. The N-Number is nothing more than a $5 fee to the FAA. The AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE is the one thats hard to get. I ran across this on another forum.

  "So, if you don't re-register and you lose your N-number, you should still be able to get your aircraft re-instated. You'd have to register it and, if more than 90 days past due, it would be registered under a new N-number. You would then have to take your AWC and Ops Limits to the FSDO and have them re-issued under the new N-number. It shouldn't be anymore complicated than getting new paperwork after changing the N-number to a unique number (vanity number.) (I've done that. It's not too much trouble to do."

  

 Now, if it was the other way around and you only had an N number and NO Airworthiness Cert, you would be screwed. Only route then would be Experimental Exhibition.

 

 Congrats on your new plane as I am jealous,

 

 Wes

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392910#392910

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Rick,

You are right on those E-LSA's that were given an Airworthiness Cert that expired. If his Airworthiness Cert has an "unlimited" for the expiration which most do, I still think he will be just fine. The only thing that he needs is an N number. Not hard to get. I believe the ones that have an expiration on them had until Jan 1 2010 to make them unlimited, and that date has passed also.

Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

rsbiser

Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Hey Guys,



Thanks for the help.  



Just to be clear, the Airworthiness Certificate is EAB issued in March of '07 with an UNLIMITED Expiry Date.

It does include the old N Number which the previous owner transferred to another airplane.  I already have my new N Number reserved.  So, it looks like I'll just have to wrestle through the process with the FSDO.  



Hope it won't be too painful. 



Thanks, 



Scott

_________________
Scott Biser

Cincinnati, Ohio

Mark III Xtra

alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Confused about FAA Registration ...

Scott,



Please update us when you talk to the FSDO. 



Forum: Did not want to come across as arguing on this forum. I really just want to get along with all members and contribute and learn as much as I can. 



Wes

_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

Tom McCarthy

Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Location: 61C

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:38 am Post subject: Confused about FAA Registration ...

 	  Quote: 	
		    [b]Time:06:51:31 PM PST USSubject:Re: Confused about FAA Registration ..From:Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)>             Wes, Most of what you say is true, unless your airplane is E-LSA and not       derived from an S-LSA airplane (like the RV-12) or demoted from an S-LSA       when the manufacturer went out of business. If you let your registration       expire on an E-LSA that was registered during the grandfathering phase of       starting up LSA there is no way to go back and re-register. Why, because       21.191 i(1) expired on 1-31-2008. The version of form 8088A that was used       during the grandfathering period to apply for registration expired then,       too. I'm sure the good folks at the Light Sport Branch of the FAA in       Oklahoma City are tired of confirming it, but you can call them and check       it out.

Rick,

This has come up in the past regarding E-LSA registration expiring.  I just talked to Tim Bogenhagen at EAA, and he told me this is not so.  If you are the owner of an expired E-LSA, you simply have to send in form 8050-1. He said since you already own the plane, you do not have to submit form 8050-2 or show evidence of ownership.  Whats more, he said if you purchase the plane with an expired N-number, you can submit "its equivalent" to evidence of ownership, as prescribed in part 47, and on the instructions of form 8050-1. I am certainly no expert on issues with the FAA, and I know that the EAA is not perfect, but he sounded like he's been down this path before.  I encourage people to always do their own leg work and take info on forums with a grain of salt. As you said, call the FAA.

Tom McCarthyN863GB	SlingshotN441TM	FirestarN541TM	Zenith 601HDAll registered E-LSA----All registrations currentBack to lurking mode, and maybe build mode very soon.

	
[/b] [quote][b]

_________________
Tom McCarthy
N514TM Zenith 601HD
N414TM Kolb FireStar 1
N863GB Kolb Slingshot

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