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Rear seat access

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rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Rear seat access

A long story that I'll make short is that the pull strings for my two comm antenna, which are located underneath the rear seats, were removed by the painter.  



Since the conduit doesn't go all the way to the floor, I can't use a vacuum to re-run the lines.  Also, due to the turns in the conduit I can't push anything past the second turn.  



At this point it looks like I'll be drilling out all those blind rivets tonight.  



The debate in having with myself is whether or not to just reinstall the blind rivets or go through the time and expense to install nutplates. 



For those with comm antenna under your rear seats, have you found a need to get back into those cavities for any reason?



I guess one alternative would be to install access panels over the comment antenna. 



Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions!



Bob



Sent from my iPhone

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: Rear seat access

I put in access panels. Have used one of them already.......



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: Rear seat access

I was able to fish the cable out, on my initial install, from the bottom 

of the plane, but I can understand your situation if the conduit exit 

isn't real near the hole for the antenna.

What I would do is install an access plate.  I haven't had need

to do that on my plane, but, I did put an access plate on one

bay anyway...more as a storage area than anything.  I now carry

some spare parts for small things that I've accumulated over the

years, such as spark plugs, magneto parts, and things like that,

in a little container in the seat bays.  That way they

aren't rattling around in the baggage area, getting crushed,

and they are hidden away nicely, but accessible with the removal

of a few screws.



So, it may be an opportunity for you to do a little mod.

To do mine, I had to look at photos to make a narrow slot but

leave enough metal on the sides to allow for installation of an

access plate doubler.  I riveted in the doubler, threw in

some nutplates, and then put the strip of metal from the

seat back on top.  I did it in about a night I think, in the

hangar.



So all is not lost.  I don't think I'd drill out all the rivets.

That would be a lot of work for no great reason.  Even worst

case, you could cut a hole, round or oblong, and then cut an

oversized patch that you could rivet on over the hole later.

Under a seat cushion nobody would ever know, and then you'd

have easy access later.  Install nutplates and you could

have an access plate that isn't flush, but doesn't need the

doubler.



Tim



On 1/28/2013 8:48 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 A long story that I'll make short is that the pull strings for my two

 comm antenna, which are located underneath the rear seats, were

 removed by the painter.



 Since the conduit doesn't go all the way to the floor, I can't use a

 vacuum to re-run the lines.  Also, due to the turns in the conduit I

 can't push anything past the second turn.



 At this point it looks like I'll be drilling out all those blind

 rivets tonight.



 The debate in having with myself is whether or not to just reinstall

 the blind rivets or go through the time and expense to install

 nutplates.



 For those with comm antenna under your rear seats, have you found a

 need to get back into those cavities for any reason?



 I guess one alternative would be to install access panels over the

 comment antenna.



 Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions!



 Bob



 Sent from my iPhone

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:12 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Bob,

I wound up drilling all the rivets for my back seats, to add an antenna on one side, and for similar cable situation on other side. It won't take long to drill them, and you won't be able to get the access you need unless you drill virtually all of them. Fortunately they are easy to drill with a sharp drill bit.

 I installed access panels to resolve the issue in the future. You may or may not need to get in there again, and access panel with 4 or 6 nutplates is relatively quick and easy to make. If you don't put in access, you will need in there again, if you make the panel, you won't ever have to go there. Just another Murphy's corollary. 

 Kelly



On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)>

 

 A long story that I'll make short is that the pull strings for my two comm antenna, which are located underneath the rear seats, were removed by the painter.

 

 Since the conduit doesn't go all the way to the floor, I can't use a vacuum to re-run the lines.  Also, due to the turns in the conduit I can't push anything past the second turn.

 

 At this point it looks like I'll be drilling out all those blind rivets tonight.

 

 The debate in having with myself is whether or not to just reinstall the blind rivets or go through the time and expense to install nutplates.

 

 For those with comm antenna under your rear seats, have you found a need to get back into those cavities for any reason?

 

 I guess one alternative would be to install access panels over the comment antenna.

 

 Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions!

 

 Bob

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Tim,



I hadn't thought of that, but I like your suggestion.  I think that's what I'll do tonight. 



Thanks,



Bob



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 28, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:






I was able to fish the cable out, on my initial install, from the bottom of the plane, but I can understand your situation if the conduit exit isn't real near the hole for the antenna.

What I would do is install an access plate.  I haven't had need

to do that on my plane, but, I did put an access plate on one

bay anyway...more as a storage area than anything.  I now carry

some spare parts for small things that I've accumulated over the

years, such as spark plugs, magneto parts, and things like that,

in a little container in the seat bays.  That way they

aren't rattling around in the baggage area, getting crushed,

and they are hidden away nicely, but accessible with the removal

of a few screws.



So, it may be an opportunity for you to do a little mod.

To do mine, I had to look at photos to make a narrow slot but

leave enough metal on the sides to allow for installation of an

access plate doubler.  I riveted in the doubler, threw in

some nutplates, and then put the strip of metal from the

seat back on top.  I did it in about a night I think, in the

hangar.



So all is not lost.  I don't think I'd drill out all the rivets.

That would be a lot of work for no great reason.  Even worst

case, you could cut a hole, round or oblong, and then cut an

oversized patch that you could rivet on over the hole later.

Under a seat cushion nobody would ever know, and then you'd

have easy access later.  Install nutplates and you could

have an access plate that isn't flush, but doesn't need the

doubler.



Tim



On 1/28/2013 8:48 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 A long story that I'll make short is that the pull strings for my two

 comm antenna, which are located underneath the rear seats, were

 removed by the painter.

 

 Since the conduit doesn't go all the way to the floor, I can't use a

 vacuum to re-run the lines.  Also, due to the turns in the conduit I

 can't push anything past the second turn.

 

 At this point it looks like I'll be drilling out all those blind

 rivets tonight.

 

 The debate in having with myself is whether or not to just reinstall

 the blind rivets or go through the time and expense to install

 nutplates.

 

 For those with comm antenna under your rear seats, have you found a

 need to get back into those cavities for any reason?

 

 I guess one alternative would be to install access panels over the

 comment antenna.

 

 Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions!

 

 Bob

 

 Sent from my iPhone

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:20 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Have you tried the Vacuum?  It does not take too much airflow to pull the

sting through.....if you can get to one end, then just get the string close

on the other I think you could get it to work. Maybe put the string on the

end of a fish tape in order to get it close.



Good luck.....



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080

--

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: Rear seat access

I made access panels on each side.  I used plastic grommets for the coax to 

enter from the flap control tubes.

As far as snaking through conduit, I bought a snake from Harbor Freight 

(even though I hate that place). It is red plastic with a round metal end. 

I could push that through the crazy turns of the conduit.

Sean

---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: Rear seat access

You might use a tiny paperball at the end of the line and a good strong 

vacuum (I had some success with that in the past)



Werner



On 28.01.2013 16:14, Bob Leffler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Tim,



 I hadn't thought of that, but I like your suggestion.  I think that's what I'll do tonight.



 Thanks,



 Bob



 Sent from my iPhone



 On Jan 28, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



 



 I was able to fish the cable out, on my initial install, from the bottom of the plane, but I can understand your situation if the conduit exit isn't real near the hole for the antenna.

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: Rear seat access

That's a great idea...even if the string isn't aligned with the

hole in the belly skin, it may get sucked in the right direction

and come out.

Tim



On 1/28/2013 9:20 AM, Rene Felker wrote:

[quote] 



 Have you tried the Vacuum?  It does not take too much airflow to pull the

 sting through.....if you can get to one end, then just get the string close

 on the other I think you could get it to work. Maybe put the string on the

 end of a fish tape in order to get it close.



 Good luck.....



 Rene' Felker

 N423CF

 801-721-6080

 --

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Yep,  having done audio and data wiring for over twenty years, I know most of the tricks. 



There is about a two inch gap between the end of the conduit and the antenna mounting hole.  I had hoped the string was just laying on the floor and I could suck if out.   But that doesn't appear to be the case.  



Installing an access plate is a good idea regardless, so I just spend some time installing one now instead of later when I need to make a repair 



The corrugated conduit, doesn't work well wish any of my fish tapes.   Although none of mine are like the on Sean described. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 28, 2013, at 10:20 AM, "Rene Felker" <rene(at)felker.com> wrote:






Have you tried the Vacuum?  It does not take too much airflow to pull the

sting through.....if you can get to one end, then just get the string close

on the other I think you could get it to work. Maybe put the string on the

end of a fish tape in order to get it close.



Good luck.....



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080

--

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:26 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Bob,



My conduit is corrugated blue stuff.  The fish tape I have works well.  If 

you want I can ship to you.

---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Rear seat access

 	  Strasnuts wrote: 	
		  Bob,



My conduit is corrugated blue stuff.  The fish tape I have works well.  If 

you want I can ship to you.

--- 	




If you are talking about this one, I may swing by HF on the way home tonight.  It looks like it's less expensive to purchase than ship.



My only opportunity is that the conduit comes out of the rib a few inches forward of the hole for the antenna connector.   The question will be if I can grab it blindly through  the hole?  But it may be worth the try.



bob

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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: Rear seat access

That's the one

---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Rear seat access

Another idea... If are able to get the fish tape into the subject area try placing something magnetic on the end of the tape then use a magnet to steer the tape to the hole.  Or if there are no other wires you might be able to blow a string through with a screw on the end and then use the magnet.



I REALLY like Tim's idea of an access panel leading to a small storage space.  I saw this done on wingtips before.  Great idea Tim! - Jason

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: Rear seat access

Update:

 

I picked up the fish tape that Sean recommended.  The head was indeed large enough to get through the two 90 degree bends in the corrugated conduit.  I still couldn’t get the end through the 1/2" opening for the antenna on the bottom of the fuselage.   I ended up making a small access door, which probably should be there anyways to make troubleshooting antenna issues easier down the road.

 

Thanks for everyone's opinions!

 

Bob

 

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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:40 am Post subject: Rear seat access

Hi



A trick I used was to tie a small square of cloth to light nylon string then blow it through using my air hose. 



Worked like a charm even with tight turns. 



Cheers



Les



Sent from my iPhone



On 2013-01-28, at 12:49 PM, "jkreidler" <jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Another idea... If are able to get the fish tape into the subject area try placing something magnetic on the end of the tape then use a magnet to steer the tape to the hole.  Or if there are no other wires you might be able to blow a string through with a screw on the end and then use the magnet.

 

 I REALLY like Tim's idea of an access panel leading to a small storage space.  I saw this done on wingtips before.  Great idea Tim! - Jason

 

 --------

 Jason Kreidler

 4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI

 Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler

 N44YH - Flying - #40617

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393185#393185

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