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Classic Foam Wings

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spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

I'm just making my flaps at the moment BUT its getting near that time and very soon will be starting on my wings so want to ask any classic owners on here for any tips, tricks or cheats that might save me time/patience or anything that you would have done differently with hines sight. Also i don't have the biaxial cloth which came with the kit, does anyone know of anyone with some or know where i might get some to the correct spec?. I have contacted Andy Draper at the LAA and he said if i cant get any then uni 92145 at + and - 45 degrees is the way to go. Any input is great fully received.

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

It's a long time ago now but I used the biaxial supplied with the kit #109.

It is very thick and a sod to wet out properly.  It is also difficult to

bend and get a nice fold round the spa.



I thought at the time I would much have preferred to have worked with 2

layers of uni.  It would have been more work but I think it would have

produced a better job.



Regards



Pete

--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

I agree with Pete, 2 plies of UNI will be lighter and probably stronger.

Graham

        From: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013, 18:59

 Subject: RE: Europa-List:  Classic Foam Wings

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)>

It's a long time ago now but I used the biaxial supplied with the kit #109.

It is very thick and a sod to wet out properly.  It is also difficult to

bend and get a nice fold round the spa.

I thought at the time I would much have preferred to have worked with 2

layers of uni.  It would have been more work but I think it would have

produced a better job.

Regards

Pete

--

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

The story so far, I'm unable to find the correct spec biaxial cloth and have to go the 2 ply's of uni route to cover my wings, however I don't have the early manual which tells you how to do it so does anyone have it that can send it to me on a PDF? Many thanks. Spcialeffects(at)aol.com

nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:20 am Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

A pdf copy of the "Classic" manual can be found at the font of all 

Europa knowledge - The Europa Club website.



Here is a link to the "Wing Build" section:

http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Wing-Build.pdf



If you're not already a member, you might wish to consider joining as 

there is a huge pool of expertise amongst the members ....... and 

they're nice people!



Happy building



Nigel



On 20/02/2013 09:39, spcialeffects wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The story so far, I'm unable to find the correct spec biaxial cloth and have to go the 2 ply's of uni route to cover my wings, however I don't have the early manual which tells you how to do it so does anyone have it that can send it to me on a PDF? Menu thanks. Spcialeffects(at)aol.com





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394642#394642

nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

My classic manual is issue 2 and dated 9th December 1994 and that makes

reference to Bi-Axial. I seem to recall that the prototype was

constructed using uni, but all production build instructions refer to

Bi-Axial.

Either way, using equal weight Uni is perfectly acceptable, just pay

attention to the orientation of the cloth (+/-45 deg.) particularly as

you roll over the leading edge. A good tip is to gently mark the

orientation on the foam with a felt marker to give you something to

follow (I may be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here).

It will probably be easier to work with uni than the originally

specified Bi-axial though I would recommend working with a helper to

keep you supplied with regular batches of freshly mixed resin. It's a

big lay-up and must be done in one go. Another tip not referenced in the

manual is to use peel ply over the whole surface, it will pay dividends

when you come to fill the finished wing (another joyous task). Last tip

is NOT to over sand the sharp profile of the lower leading edge foam

blocks. It is intentional and is critical to the stall characteristics

of the finished wing.



These XS boys don't know what they've missed 



Nigel



On 20/02/2013 14:28, spcialeffects(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Nigel thanks for the reply. I am a member of about two years now

 but the wing build chapter I was after was the one before that one

 which uses uni to skin the wings and not the biaxial cloth. Thanks all

 the same



 Sent from my HTC



 ----- Reply message -----

 From: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>

 To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Cc: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>

 Subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

 Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 14:19

 A pdf copy of the "Classic" manual can be found at the font of all

 Europa knowledge - The Europa Club website.



 Here is a link to the "Wing Build" section:

 http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Wing-Build.pdf



 If you're not already a member, you might wish to consider joining as

 there is a huge pool of expertise amongst the members ....... and

 they're nice people!



 Happy building



 Nigel



 On 20/02/2013 09:39, spcialeffects wrote:

 > 

 <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>

 >

 > The story so far, I'm unable to find the correct spec biaxial cloth

 and have to go the 2 ply's of uni route to cover my wings, however I

 don't have the early manual which tells you how to do it so does

 anyone have it that can send it to me on a PDF? Menu thanks.

 Spcialeffects(at)aol.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394642#394642

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

Nigel

I built two or three sets of wings, all with UNI. Imho much better than biaxial in this application. For some reason my pages of the wing construction are missing!

Graham

        From: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2013, 19:46

 Subject: Re: Re: Classic Foam Wings

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)" <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)>

My classic manual is issue 2 and dated 9th December 1994 and that makes

reference to  Bi-Axial. I seem to recall that the prototype was

constructed using uni, but all production build instructions refer to

Bi-Axial.

Either way, using equal weight Uni is perfectly acceptable, just pay

attention to the orientation of the cloth (+/-45 deg.) particularly as

you roll over the leading edge. A good tip is to gently mark the

orientation on the foam with a felt marker to give you something to

follow (I may be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here).

It will probably be easier to work with uni than the originally

specified Bi-axial though I would recommend working with a helper to

keep you supplied with regular batches of freshly mixed resin. It's a

big lay-up and must be done in one go. Another tip not referenced in the

manual is to use peel ply over the whole surface, it will pay dividends

when you come to fill the finished wing (another joyous task). Last tip

is NOT to over sand the sharp profile of  the lower leading edge foam

blocks. It is intentional and is critical to the stall characteristics

of the finished wing.



These XS boys don't know what they've missed 



Nigel



On 20/02/2013 14:28, spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Nigel thanks for the reply. I am a member of about two years now

 but the wing build chapter I was after was the one before that one

 which uses uni to skin the wings and not the biaxial cloth. Thanks all

 the same



 Sent from my HTC



 ----- Reply message -----

 From: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)" <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)>

 To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Cc: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>

 Subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

 Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 14:19

 A pdf copy of the "Classic" manual can be found at the font of all

 Europa knowledge - The Europa Club website.



 Here is a link to the "Wing Build" section:

 http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Wing-Build.pdf



 If you're not already a member, you might wish to consider joining as

 there is a huge pool of expertise amongst the members ....... and

 they're nice people!



 Happy building



  Nigel



 On 20/02/2013 09:39, spcialeffects wrote:

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "spcialeffects"

 <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>

 >

 > The story so far, I'm unable to find the correct spec biaxial cloth

 and have to go the 2 ply's of uni route to cover my wings, however I

 don't have the early manual which tells you how to do it so does

 anyone have it that can send it to me on a PDF? Menu thanks.

 Spcialeffects(at)aol.com (Spcialeffects(at)aol.com)

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394642#394642

 >

  >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >




	




ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">htronics.com/" =   -->

nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

Hi Graham,

     

     Don't forget that back then, each of the three construction     "Modules" had its own manual. I bet you were looking at the first     "Tailplane" manual that for some reason also includes some of the     fuse instructions!

     

     Nigel

     

     On 20/02/2013 20:22, GRAHAM SINGLETON       wrote:

     

     [quote]                Nigel

         I built two or             three sets of wings, all with UNI. Imho much better than             biaxial in this application. For some reason my pages of the             wing construction are missing!

         

           

         Graham

         

         

                                                    From:                 "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)                 <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)

                 To:                 "europa-list(at)matronics.com" (europa-list(at)matronics.com)                 <europa-list(at)matronics.com> (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

                 Sent:                 Wednesday, 20 February 2013, 19:46

                 Subject:                 Re: Re: Classic Foam Wings

                

             

             --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)"             <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)>

             

             

             My classic manual is issue 2 and dated 9th December 1994 and             that makes

             reference to Bi-Axial. I seem to recall that the prototype             was

             constructed using uni, but all production build instructions             refer to

             Bi-Axial.

             Either way, using equal weight Uni is perfectly acceptable,             just pay

             attention to the orientation of the cloth (+/-45 deg.)             particularly as

             you roll over the leading edge. A good tip is to gently mark             the

             orientation on the foam with a felt marker to give you             something to

             follow (I may be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here).

             It will probably be easier to work with uni than the             originally

             specified Bi-axial though I would recommend working with a             helper to

             keep you supplied with regular batches of freshly mixed             resin. It's a

             big lay-up and must be done in one go. Another tip not             referenced in the

             manual is to use peel ply over the whole surface, it will             pay dividends

             when you come to fill the finished wing (another joyous             task). Last tip

             is NOT to over sand the sharp profile of the lower leading             edge foam

             blocks. It is intentional and is critical to the stall             characteristics

             of the finished wing.

             

             These XS boys don't know what they've missed 

             

             Nigel

             

             On 20/02/2013 14:28, spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)             wrote:

             > Hi Nigel thanks for the reply. I am a member of about             two years now

             > but the wing build chapter I was after was the one             before that one

             > which uses uni to skin the wings and not the biaxial             cloth. Thanks all

             > the same

             >

             > Sent from my HTC

             >

             > ----- Reply message -----

             > From: "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)"             <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)>

             > To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

             > Cc: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>

             > Subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

             > Date: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 14:19

             >

             >

             > A pdf copy of the "Classic" manual can be found at the             font of all

             > Europa knowledge - The Europa Club website.

             >

             > Here is a link to the "Wing Build" section:

             > http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Wing-Build.pdf

             >

             > If you're not already a member, you might wish to             consider joining as

             > there is a huge pool of expertise amongst the members             ....... and

             > they're nice people!

             >

             > Happy building

             >

             > Nigel

             >

             > On 20/02/2013 09:39, spcialeffects wrote:

             > > --> Europa-List message posted by:             "spcialeffects"

             > <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>

             > >

             > > The story so far, I'm unable to find the correct             spec biaxial cloth

             > and have to go the 2 ply's of uni route to cover my             wings, however I

             > don't have the early manual which tells you how to do             it so does

             > anyone have it that can send it to me on a PDF? Menu             thanks.

             > Spcialeffects(at)aol.com (Spcialeffects(at)aol.com)

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > > Read this topic online here:

             > >

             > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394642#394642

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             > >

             >

             

             

             

             

             ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"             target="_blank">htronics.com/"             =  --> 

               

               

               

               

             

            

          

                      	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

So, since I have been looking into this I have worked out that the first few kits supplied ( not sure how many but at least 6 ) were constructed ( wings ) using uni cloth instead off the biaxial. This is one page out of that manual, supplied by Rodger with kit number 6, that shows the lay up using uni

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: Classic Foam Wings

I think at least 232 were built with UNI

Graham

        From: spcialeffects <spcialeffects(at)aol.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2013, 22:33

 Subject: Re: Classic Foam Wings

--> Europa-List message posted by: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects(at)aol.com (spcialeffects(at)aol.com)>

So, since I have been looking into this I have worked out that the first few kits supplied ( not sure how many but at least 6 ) were constructed ( wings ) using uni cloth instead off the biaxial. This is one page out of that manual, supplied by Rodger with kit number 6, that shows the lay up using uni

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394708#394708

Attachments: 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_142.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_123.jpg

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