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18 T lifetime and maintenance

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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

I am not supporting the actions of EASA, and certainly the current proposals, which seem to be about to become requirements are, I feel, far too demanding, even although some significant concessions have been made.

 

Having said that, it is not EASA who has unilaterally "reduced the lifetime to 3500 hours". All they have done is to speak to the manufacturer (and, George, there are a few design people left on the light aircraft side of Yakovlev!), And asked what the maintenance programme should be, and Yakovlev replied that they should be a total overhaul at 1000 hours! And of course, they are the manufacturer and must be the ultimate authority for this, however absurd that might seem to someone used to a Western approach for light aircraft maintenance.

 

So, for the time being, we don't have to follow the total programme, which included, every 1000 hours or six years, total re-fabric; mandatory repaint; undercarriage and retraction system overhaul; fuel and oil system removal and overhaul; all instruments and avionics removed and overhauled etc etc. Nevertheless it will be a lot more arduous than we expect for a Western aircraft, which is somewhat ironic since I personally believe that the 18 T is much better made than most aircraft.

 

I have official paper from the Smolensk factory, confirming the "life" of the 18 T, which of course they manufactured, at 5000 hours. But the simple fact is that they were not the designers, and have never had access to design information.

 

Richard

 

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

 

Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

 

  [quote][b]

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:57 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Richard

Would it help if we set up a delegation of all Yak18T proprietors and go for a meeting with Duessing in order to propose him a way of doing?

I feel that we are in great danger of being economically groused.

Duessing is not stupid and Perhaps by going to see him we can arrange something

Particularly when we know that even in Russia they don't follow Yakovkev requirements....

Another question is could we negotiate with the FAA in USA to put all our 18T under N reg?

Would this be a possibility?

There are inspectors and mech structures in Europe.?

Thanks for your efforts

Kind regards



Didier Blouzard+33 6 5184 4802

Le 13 fÃ©vr. 2013 Ã  10:26, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> a Ã©crit :

[quote]  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

I am not supporting the actions of EASA, and certainly the current proposals, which seem to be about to become requirements are, I feel, far too demanding, even although some significant concessions have been made.

 

Having said that, it is not EASA who has unilaterally "reduced the lifetime to 3500 hours". All they have done is to speak to the manufacturer (and, George, there are a few design people left on the light aircraft side of Yakovlev!), And asked what the maintenance programme should be, and Yakovlev replied that they should be a total overhaul at 1000 hours! And of course, they are the manufacturer and must be the ultimate authority for this, however absurd that might seem to someone used to a Western approach for light aircraft maintenance.

 

So, for the time being, we don't have to follow the total programme, which included, every 1000 hours or six years, total re-fabric; mandatory repaint; undercarriage and retraction system overhaul; fuel and oil system removal and overhaul; all instruments and avionics removed and overhauled etc etc. Nevertheless it will be a lot more arduous than we expect for a Western aircraft, which is somewhat ironic since I personally believe that the 18 T is much better made than most aircraft.

 

I have official paper from the Smolensk factory, confirming the "life" of the 18 T, which of course they manufactured, at 5000 hours. But the simple fact is that they were not the designers, and have never had access to design information.

 

Richard

 

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

 

Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Hi Richard,



when you look at the web pages of Smolensk there is still the 7000 hours "lifetime" shown for the 18 T. Only advertising ??  And even that seems very conservative to me taking into account loads of C 150s with 15000 or more hours under their belt being of much lighter build. I say no one at EASA was even near to an 18T to qualify for assessing lifetimes. But for maintenance companies shorter overhaul times offer great business options. The big drawback will be that under these conditions many owners will try to get rid of these aircraft and no prospective buyer will be found so end of business !

   Thinking of the new batch of 18 Ts produced in the past few years for some authorities I just donÂ´t believe they would have accepted an aircraft with that high running costs due to extremely short overhaul times. I suspect there are more truths than are openly available. 

   I still have to see what is contained in these TO 1000 or 2000 overhauls. If this was about corrosion inspections as published recently for older Cessnas I could live with that but definitely no way to accept anything near to strip downs.



Vic

http://www.smaz.ru/eng/avia/jak18t.php

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:15 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

As I said before, Smolensk has no design authority since they are only the

manufacturer, and as far as EASA are concerned they are irrelevant! For

EASA, the only thing that counts is the designer – i.e. Yakovlev.



I know a lot about the batch of sixty 18T for the Russian Ministry of

Transport. This was a government deal; the Russians did not want to use

Western aircraft for reasons of national pride; no one was interested in

operating costs.



I will separately send you the 1000/2000 hour maintenance from Yakovlev, as

first suggested. You will see how demanding they are! Fortunately a lot of

the tougher requirements have now been deleted.



Richard



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Richard



If you could copy me with the 1000/2000 please I would appreciate.



Thank you very much



Didier Blouzard

+33 6 5184 4802



Le 13 fÃ©vr. 2013 Ã  16:13, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> a Ã©crit :



[quote] 

 

 As I said before, Smolensk has no design authority since they are only the

 manufacturer, and as far as EASA are concerned they are irrelevant! For

 EASA, the only thing that counts is the designer â€“ i.e. Yakovlev.

 

 I know a lot about the batch of sixty 18T for the Russian Ministry of

 Transport. This was a government deal; the Russians did not want to use

 Western aircraft for reasons of national pride; no one was interested in

 operating costs.

 

 I will separately send you the 1000/2000 hour maintenance from Yakovlev, as

 first suggested. You will see how demanding they are! Fortunately a lot of

 the tougher requirements have now been deleted.

 

 Richard

 

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

 Rhodds Farm

 Lyonshall

 Hereford

 HR5 3LW

 

 Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

 www.russianaeros.com

 

 

 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

I looked into registering a Yak under a stateside N number (Experimental Exhibition) and then operating if overseas.  



A few things came up.  



You would first have to ship the aircraft to the United States and fly off the necessary Phase 1 testing process before you could move it to Phase 2 and then ship it back overseas.  



Next, the aircraft would have to have a home base in the United States. 



All scheduled mechanical inspections are supposed to be done at the home base.  Waivers are indeed allowed, with an explanation.  However, the work has to be done by an FAA approved A&P mechanic.  Foreign qualifications and ratings are not permitted, even if the guy was a Russian Master Mechanic (as in Vladimir). You have to obtain the U.S. FAA quals.    



TEMPORARY operation of a U.S. registered aircraft in another country is permitted, but once again you run into the other countries rules and regs along with the FAA's.  .  



The FAA is not very interested in having operational authority for an aircraft it has no control over in another country and the general feel I got was that they also were not interested in the problems aircraft owners might have in other countries.  After all, it is "another country".  



If you are really interested in tackling that subject, my best advice to you Didier is to NOT contact the FAA.  Never ask the FAA a question that you do not know the answer to already.  Instead, contact the U.S. Experimental Aircraft Association and pay attention to what they tell you.  If their answer is "no way", then believe it.  



Mark Bitterlich

--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

OK OK



that was a try. But I do understand. God bless America!!!

Our best chance is that Richard succeed in his negociations with EASA

and we'll do all we can to support him

If not than I'll have to move to USA with my plane !!!

Thanks Mark



Best regards



Didier



2013/2/13 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>:

[quote] 



 I looked into registering a Yak under a stateside N number (Experimental Exhibition) and then operating if overseas.



 A few things came up.



 You would first have to ship the aircraft to the United States and fly off the necessary Phase 1 testing process before you could move it to Phase 2 and then ship it back overseas.



 Next, the aircraft would have to have a home base in the United States.



 All scheduled mechanical inspections are supposed to be done at the home base.  Waivers are indeed allowed, with an explanation.  However, the work has to be done by an FAA approved A&P mechanic.  Foreign qualifications and ratings are not permitted, even if the guy was a Russian Master Mechanic (as in Vladimir). You have to obtain the U.S. FAA quals.



 TEMPORARY operation of a U.S. registered aircraft in another country is permitted, but once again you run into the other countries rules and regs along with the FAA's.  .



 The FAA is not very interested in having operational authority for an aircraft it has no control over in another country and the general feel I got was that they also were not interested in the problems aircraft owners might have in other countries.  After all, it is "another country".



 If you are really interested in tackling that subject, my best advice to you Didier is to NOT contact the FAA.  Never ask the FAA a question that you do not know the answer to already.  Instead, contact the U.S. Experimental Aircraft Association and pay attention to what they tell you.  If their answer is "no way", then believe it.



 Mark Bitterlich

 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

You are MORE THAN WELCOME at my airport, and I will do the best to accommodate your arrival in any way.  You can stay at my home until you find a place.  



Mark

--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Mark,



this is so nice. I really do appreciate.

But do not tempt me or I may come for real.

It makes me feel good to read such nice words from friends over the ocean.

Thank you so much Mark.



If things are getting worse in Europe, USA will be the only place to

go...and this could happen !!!!



If you happen to pass by Paris and if I have my CofA back, I will show

you around in my plane if you like.



I'll remember your kind attention Mark



Whish to see you one of these day in France or in America.



You can count on me



Didier





2013/2/14 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>:

[quote] 



 You are MORE THAN WELCOME at my airport, and I will do the best to accommodate your arrival in any way.  You can stay at my home until you find a place.



 Mark

 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:44 pm Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Mark be careful with this kind of proposition, or expect to see a whole

armada of refugies from Europe arriving at your home, all trying to escape

from the new totalitarian EASA state.



Jan

On 14/02/13 23:51, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:



[quote]

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



You are MORE THAN WELCOME at my airport, and I will do the best to

accommodate your arrival in any way.  You can stay at my home until you

find a place.  



Mark

--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:10 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Guys, ya'll are more than welcome over here. We can disperse y'all to multiple user friendly fields. But a word of warning Uncle O is trying to take us to that point too. Not sure how long it will be before a second American Revolution breaks out. 

Doc

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 15, 2013, at 1:41 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:

[quote] 

 Mark be careful with this kind of proposition, or expect to see a whole

 armada of refugies from Europe arriving at your home, all trying to escape

 from the new totalitarian EASA state.

 Jan

 On 14/02/13 23:51, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"

 <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

> 

> <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

> 

> You are MORE THAN WELCOME at my airport, and I will do the best to

> accommodate your arrival in any way.  You can stay at my home until you

> find a place.  

> 

> Mark

> 

> 

> --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:28 am Post subject: 18 T lifetime and maintenance

Good advice.  



That said, you're invited too.  



Bring your airplane.  



Mark

--

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