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capedavis(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: 377 |
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Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would be ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ?
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
[quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: 377 |
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Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would be
ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ?
Chris Davis
Chris D/Kolbers
Don't think you could cool it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: 377 |
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Chris, I had a forced air cooled 377 on a MiniMax and my buddy runs a fanless 503 on his Airbike without problems. Of course both these had a big fan immediately in front of the engine. In the air you'd most likely be all right, it's ground ops where you'd have a cooling issue. On the other hand, air cooled two strokes were run on street and off road motorcycles for decades. As they say, one good experiment beats a thousand expert opinions, so save the fan and shrouding and give it a try. If it doesn't cool well enough you can always change back.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 6:10 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would be
ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ?
Chris Davis
Chris D/Kolbers
Don't think you could cool it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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capedavis(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: 377 |
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I Rich , i was think very strongly to do as you said try it out and ad a fan and shroud if it didnt cool enough .I will be flying most of the time out of an airfield with little traffic , so my ground time running will be limited plus I being disabled am going to have an electric start so i could just shut it off if i was held up it seems to me that that engine with all those cooling fins ought to cool Ok but ?I have never delt with the rear cylinder andn fan as I only have 492 hours on one 503 with a fan and never a heat problem . Thanks for your input . Chris
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
[quote]
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: 377
Chris, I had a forced air cooled 377 on a MiniMax and my buddy runs a fanless 503 on his Airbike without problems. Of course both these had a big fan immediately in front of the engine. In the air you'd most likely be all right, it's ground ops where you'd have a cooling issue. On the other hand, air cooled two strokes were run on street and off road motorcycles for decades. As they say, one good experiment beats a thousand expert opinions, so save the fan and shrouding and give it a try. If it doesn't cool well enough you can always change back.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 6:10 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Kolbers , just wondering if you gent thought a 377 without a fan would be
ok on a Kolb or if it was ridiculous to try ?
Chris Davis
Chris D/Kolbers
Don't think you could cool it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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ark>Un/Subscription,
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wakataka
Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: 377 |
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One of the advantages of fan cooled engines is that the cylinder temps stay more uniform. A free air engine cools down a lot more than a fan cooled engine while at low throttle on approach. When you throttle down a fan cooled engine, the fan slows down and the airflow across the cylinders decreases, so the engine stays warmer longer. This is particularly important if you are doing touch and go type flying. Cold seizures can occur when you got to full throttle after a long approach. The aluminum piston heats up faster than the steel cylinder, expands, and smears itself all over the cylinder walls. So even if you could get the CHT to be within spec at full throttle, there is still a good reason to stick with fan cooling.
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:23 pm Post subject: 377 |
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Wouldn't it be a good idea to block the air flow across the cylinders on
descent? Some sort of venetian blind type of contraption? Also ,
rather than taping the radiator...a venetian blind mechanism with 0 to
100% blockage on the radiator of the 582 and 618 seems appropriate.. Herb
On 02/18/2013 09:46 PM, wakataka wrote:
| Quote: |
One of the advantages of fan cooled engines is that the cylinder temps stay more uniform. A free air engine cools down a lot more than a fan cooled engine while at low throttle on approach. When you throttle down a fan cooled engine, the fan slows down and the airflow across the cylinders decreases, so the engine stays warmer longer. This is particularly important if you are doing touch and go type flying. Cold seizures can occur when you got to full throttle after a long approach. The aluminum piston heats up faster than the steel cylinder, expands, and smears itself all over the cylinder walls. So even if you could get the CHT to be within spec at full throttle, there is still a good reason to stick with fan cooling.
--------
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394541#394541
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wakataka
Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: 377 |
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After two cold seizures, I tried to build something like that for my free air 277, but the vibration from that little beast kept tearing apart whatever design I came up with. I finally solved the problem by having the cylinder honed out about 0.003 larger than factory spec and running a main jet 2 steps richer than spec. I'm also very careful not to go to full throttle immediately after a long descent at idle. On a touch and go, I'll usually take off with about 3/4 throttle and wait until the CHT gets up to 250 before going to full throttle.
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